I have lurked more than posted on this site for a long time now and feel as though I have grown to know some of you very well. Several of you were here when I arrived and were in various stages of the recovery process. I recall being amazed at the strength of character and determination displayed by all your reassuring responses and faith in the future, even given the personal hell each of you was enduring, and I admire you for your courage. <P> Now, some of your paths have taken painful and unanticipated turns, and I am so sad for the renewed pain you are currently experiencing, especially after the long stuggles you have made to recover your marriages. I know that I can't offer any insight that you don't already have, but I would like you to know how special I think you all are and how much I appreciate your wisdom and support. <P> Some days I think about the fact that I am still struggling on a daily basis with the horror and pain of this situation after nearly 3 years since DDay and 26 years of marriage. I wonder if life will ever be truly peaceful and secure again for any of us who come to this forum. I still grieve the loss of the blissful days (naive though I was) before OW and OC, and I'm sure most of you do as well. I wonder why, why, why....about a dozen different issues surrounding this and know there will never be answers. <P> I observe other couples and question "Why is their marriage ok and mine hanging in the balance every day? I remember the days when I still could muster creative energy and direct it toward projects, ideas, and plans, and I long to have that back again. I'm tired of planning my week around counselor visits and OC visitations. In spite of the fact that I have come to love OC and enjoy her, that contact means I still most see OW on a weekly basis, and seeing her always opens the wound and never lets it heal. <P>On this forum, I hear updates to your situations with sometimes astonishing turns of events as in Catnip's case, and I realize that not one of us is safe from cruel twists of fate, in spite of our efforts. It has become very clear to me that we all must learn to view ourselves, our spouses, and our marriages from a different perspective than we once did. I haven't yet been successful at doing that, even though many of you have. <P>Sorry for rambling.....I've just been very sad lately, especially hearing about the renewed pain many of you are enduring. Please don't leave the forum....we all need to hear from each other.<P>I'm not sure whether or not I found the following somewhere on the MB website, so you may already be familiar with these thoughts. If so, forgive the repeat.<P> AFTER A WHILE<P> After a while you learn the subtle difference between holding a hand and chaining a soul. And you learn that love doesn't mean leaning and company doesn't always mean security. And you begin to learn that kisses aren't contracts and presents aren't promises. And you begin to accept your defeats with your head up and your eyes open with the grace of an adult, not the grief of a child. And you learn to build all your roads on today because tomorrow's ground is too uncertain for plans, and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight.After a while you learn that even sunshire burns if you get too much. So you plant your own garden and decorate your own soul instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers. And you learn that you really can endure; that you really are strong; and you really do have self-worth. And with every goodbye, you learn.....<P>love, anniem <P>

Anniem,<P>I'm glad to see you posting on the board again. I've seen you a couple of times on aol but you didn't respond to my instant messages. Perhaps you were away from the keyboard.<P>Anyway, I wanted to let you know that what you are feeling is quite normal. I know, even though we aren't visiting OC, when OW calls for idiotic things my skin crawls. I just can't ever escape her. <P>But I think the same is true of those that have no contact at all with OC or OW. Your mind has a way of never letting you forget completely. Granted, there's not the weekly reminders, but it's always there and always will be.<P>I guess over time we just become desensitized and it won't affect us so much. At least I hope.<P><BR>I am glad to see you posting and hope something good will brighten your day.<P>Z.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

I am not sure how to post to this, but feel compelled to do so. I am upset that after three years, you are still having to go through the pain over and over. I am upset that there does not seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. It has been over 9 months since D-day and I have been feeling so sad these past few days. It almost seems like it is really dawning on me that this is my life now. Visits with a child that I love, but is not mine. Constant contact from a woman who should have never been in my life. Recurring thoughts and pictures in my head and always the question...Why? Why? Why?<BR>I admit that I am not a perfect wife. I can have a knife for a tongue, but have I not been loyal, enduring, caring, committed. At 33, I never thought the child in my life would be another woman's and not mine. I never thought this man I loved and fought for and struggled with and supported for many years would throw it all away for a little appreciation from a needy woman.<BR>There are days like today that I dont know if I can take it, should take it. I should not have to feel this pain, but leaving wont make it go away. Nothing seems to make it go away.<BR>I am terrified that I have been in a fog for the last few months and now the fog is lifting and reality is setting in. Well, all I can say is reality sucks and I want to go back, but I cant. I dont feel that I am moving forward either. I hate this place and want to run where there is no OC, no OW, no responsibility,no pain. I pray and I pray for peace of mind and that my H will see my pain and comfort me instead of going on as this oh well, got over that hurdle.<BR>I am rambling, but thanks for listening. One day at a time.

Dear Anniem, Zebra and tryin,<P>Thank you, Anniem, for posting such a fair and honest look at life in the OW/OC situation. I would be the first to admit that I have had many wonderful days since D-day, but it always seems that the dark days are pitch black, whereas before they only seemed gray.<P>Words between my H and I take on new meaning and are regularly measured. In so many ways, my H seems to have moved ahead and tried to forget the horrible thing that has happened to our marriage. Nothing is more irritating than when he criticizes friends or families for doing things that are no where near as bad as what he has put us through. The other day, he remarked how immature an officemate of his is -- the man is 45, married with 3 children and running around with other women. And, I want to scream at him "Look who's talking!"<P>But, I can't scream at him. Because it will only lead to a fight and to him saying that he thought we had turned a new page. <P>Zebra and tryin - you said it right - it is a situation with no ending. The OW and OC are always there in your mind. And, you never thought that a child in your life would be your H's but not your own. It's a pain that never goes away no matter how nice or sweet or loved the OC may be. <P>Anniem, even if you don't feel like posting all the time, e-mail me whenever you need a re-charge. I think you have my e-mail address, but if you don't just give me a shout and I will post it.<P>Thank you so much for your caring and concern. It is a very difficult thing to be in recovery and then realize that this situation has the same power to hurt you as it did the day you found it. Our lives are changed forever and I guess we will always miss, in some way, that naive part of us before D-day. The time when we were giving 100% and believing we were getting 100% back. <P>You should post though, when you feel sad. That is the time when you need friends the most, especially friends who have been in your shoes and are standing in them right now. Tell us what is going on and let us help you. Funny, we seem to be able to help others even when we can't get a handle on our own lives. <P>Don't stay sad alone, Anniem. I will pray for the return of your happiness and that God shows you a way to deal with the cards that have been dealt.<P>Take good care of you,<BR>love,<BR>heavenly

Oh, anniem...I have always stood by the rule, "never apologize, never explain"...but, tonight, I feel I must apologize to you and the others on this forum for bringing such a disappointing part of my life to all of you.<P>I know in the big scheme of things I am no big deal and nor is my situation. But we are all so fragile here and going through something none of us can even comprehend or believe that it has happened to us. So when one of us bites the big one, it is upsetting to the rest of us because we wonder...am I next? But, that doesn't need to be the case at all! Especially if you are fervently working a good program of recovery.<P>Shell shock is something that military people never get over because the trauma is so great. This is the case with many of us. I read today on the Internet soemthing about "are you a chaos magnet?" and cringed. Until three years ago I never would have thought I was a chaos magnet because my life was so joyful and filled with gratitude and calm. But these past three years I have put up with extraoridinay behavior that I can only say has run its course and I have to quit to save myself. And I am not one to quit or give up without a helluva fight.<P>Please do not be discouraged because of anything I might have said or done...this is just something I am going through and you needn't think it will happen to you.<P>I love you all so very much and I want each and every one of your marriages to not only survive, but thrive and be better than ever. I am happy I had the opportunity to enjoy many, many months of deep soul connecting bliss with my husband over the past two years that I will carry with me forever. I will always be deeply in love with him and I will miss him the rest of my life. I love him so very, very much. And I will pray for his recovery and I will try to be his friend, if I can stand to be around him without caving. And pray that God grants him the peace he so deparately seeks and needs. He's not a bad guy, he's a sick guy. And there is the rub. If he had cancer or heart disease, I would not leave...but now this is effecting me...this is killing me and it is a kind of survival instinct kicking in, I think. I am afraid of the irrational behavior.<P>Anniem...thank you so very, very much for the wonderful post so beautifully written and heartfelt. I am printing it up to read again and again. The last part of your post was especially inspirational and meaningful to me and may give me courage to accept this as an adult instead of continually grieving like a child.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^= <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited August 15, 2001).]

It's been 5&1/2 years now since d-day. The pain and uncertainty does not leave. I feel for all the above posts. I guess it depends how long we mourn something we will never get back. Only God knows the pain we feel. H and I have had no contact with OW, or OC's for 5 years. We just recommitted to each other 5 months ago. After 5 yrs. of no contact, oldest OC calls and asked for H. H panicked when he heard it was his oldest OC. He hung up on OC. It brought everything back. We have had no calls since that phone call 2 weeks ago. H and I decided not to call back, but will explain to OC if H is called back. H and I decided contact would not be good for our marriage. ember

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anniem:<BR><B> I observe other couples and question "Why is their marriage ok and mine hanging in the balance every day? <P>...I realize that not one of us is safe from cruel twists of fate, in spite of our efforts. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are right Anniem, it's not what happens to us, it's how we take it. On the other hand, I don't think that you can really compare other couples' marriages to your own. Everybody has problems. No marriage is perfect because individuals are not perfect. A marriage is only as strong as the weakest person and everybody has weaknesses. Just because you don't notice them on the surface does not mean they do not exist. I think it is very dangerous to ever compare yourself or anything you have in your life with someone else's, regardless of what it is. Never, never do this because it is so unhealthy & depressing! <P>There will always be someone better than you, smarter than you, prettier than you, or richer than you, happier than you, but also remember there are so many people in the world who are worse off than you and me--MUCH worse... Things can always be worse!!!<P>I think it's just important to be thankful and try to find the blessings in everything we do each day. When you see OW and it reopens wounds, try to remember whatever she had that attracted your husband, and whatever they did--it's over! OW lost. You won. You still have your marriage and that is way more than OW has. All you have to do now is WORK on your self-improvement because you are all you can control. If you feel terrific about yourSELF, nobody can make you feel depressed, I don't care who they are or what they have. If you are busy counting your blessings, you won't have time for comparisons. That is a losing game!<P>Just think, you never have to face the shame of single parenting and raising an illegitimate child alone. Isn't that a blessing? You probably own your home and OW does not. I could be wrong, but just a guess.<P>OW cannot take from you anything at this point! NOTHING! So don't give her the power to ruin your day or week or month! Please. You are in for the long haul. No, you didn't sign up for this, but, you definitely have to figure out a way to handle this without grieving every single time you see this person. You can control this. You have the power. You have to be determined to rise above. I have heard someone say that we can be pitiful or powerful but we cannot be both. We choose.<P>Have you ever heard about that high place, underneath the shadow of God's wings? Flying high above the storms of life, like an eagle, sheltered from all the fiery darts of the wicked one? That's where you need to hide yourself. God desires to protect you from all this grief and mourning as if you were inside of a protective bubble. That's my prayer for you.<P>See, what was taken from you, nobody can give back to you. Whatever you lost in your marriage is gone forever. Only God can restore and heal your wounds. H can do nothing to heal you completely and certainly OW cannot contribute anything to your healing. You have no choice but to forgive them and get what you need from God. He has more than enough and He is more than willing to shower you with His love and blessings. Keep counting the ones you have and He will keep pouring them on. If we complain about everything, why should God bless us with more? So we can have something new to complain about? So keep hanging in there, kiddo! Consider yourself hugged.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm tired of planning my week around counselor visits and OC visitations. In spite of the fact that I have come to love OC and enjoy her, that contact means I still most see OW on a weekly basis, and seeing her always opens the wound and never lets it heal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Anniem I have thought about you and wondered where you were.<P>My NEW story is this:<P>ow's 13 yr. old daughter began to instant message me this week. I have no idea how she found me except I was e-mailing our priest a lot and wonder if he e-mailed anything to ow to read what I wrote? It's frightening. We are still trying to start a lawsuit on personal injury to our parish AND the priest. I found out from my H priest counseled ow and my H this past winter....TOGETHER!!!! to allow her to understand he was staying married but would be a good father! <P>I am horrified again to say the least.<P>What priest would do that? I feel betrayed all over again! He should have been worried about my marriage never ow and her baby!!!!!<P>Needless to say I told H I no longer want visits. If he seeks them I'm outta here! I'm tired of being nice and "God-like" only to have ow continue phone calls telling h how "good he looks" and now this thing with her D !!! She said horrible things to me and printed h's business and our address and LAST NAME to me!<P>I'm already on prozac and refuse to increase it to accomidate all the latest junk going on.<P>I want you to know H said today he will only pay cs. when asked and he'd rather not see me continuously hurt by this.<P>No visits is my way of telling her with my H.....nothing she did or can do will seperate us. We want her to back off. Raise baby alone now because I have HAD IT!!!!! She had her chance many times w/me and blew it. Apparently all she's interested in is a relationship with my H who now hates her and all she's done to me. H hates himself also and is clinging to me for dear life.<P>I love him.<P>I will not be part of this triangle any longer. I need a break.<P>God has granted this as a while back I sensed H would leave me over baby.<P>He touched the bottom of my feet and the top of my head and said "This is my life, it's what I now live for,you"<P>That's how I'm holding on for now. Believe me if she keeps pulling crap I'll have to leave for me. H says we'll move if it's what it takes.<P>I just wanted you to know I wonder the same things as all of you. The scar is there but the pain is far less than it was.<P>I think it depends on how spouse treats us and our feelings has a lot to do with everything.<P>love and prayers<BR>Debi <P><BR>------------------<BR>Imagine....<p>[This message has been edited by gemini1 (edited August 17, 2001).]

Hi Gem,<P>Your H's behavior re:OC and OW made me angry. How often have we BS's heard various explanations for contact w/OW using the excuse "doing what's best for OC" or "being a good father" etc. As a matter of fact, this particular issue came up last night in our counselling session.<P>We were discussing my difficulties with re-establishing trust for my H, problems letting go of the past, etc, etc, and I was trying to clarify for counselor and H some of my feelings and insecurities. I learned 9 months after DDay #1 3 years ago that H and OW had never really severed their connection and had, in fact, resumed sex and lies again (his telling her our marriage was over, I was leaving him, do dah do dah). So DDay #2 occurred 2 years ago, and I believe that the affair per se DID actually end. <P>I demanded to know from my H WHY he had resumed the affair after telling me he was remorseful, wanted our marriage to succeed, loved me and our kids, etc., he said things like "I was stupid" "I just went down there at first to see OC and one thing let to another." <P>Let me say for the record that I had told him from the beginning when I decided to remain in the marriage that I was willing to accept OC since I see her as an innocent victim. Also, I, myself, am a child born of an adulterous relationship who was given up for adoption when I was a baby, so I feel a particularly strong empathy for this little girl. (For the record, I grew up in a wonderful adoptive family where I was loved as much as my brother and sister born naturally to my parents (adoptive).<P>WHen I discussed things with OW on the phone following DDay #2, I asked her at one point why SHE allowed the affair to resume. She said-are you ready for this?- I did it for my baby! (Of course she had also called constantly soon after DDay #1 to say that she needed to talk to my H about OC.) She already had 2 teenaged sons by her own marriage (H committed suicide because he couldn't deal with her constant flirtations and the possibility of losing her), so I wasn't as if she didn't know anything about caring for kids.<P>The fact that your H saw a priest with OW without your knowledge indicates that perhaps he hasn't placed his personal priorities in the right place. The fact that a priest didn't help him do that is appalling to me, but not surprising. Our OW is Catholic and her priest has enabled her to effectively absolve herself of all responsibility for this and assure her that Heaven awaits her and Hell awaits my H (unless, of course, he marries her!) Gag<P>My point in this long explanation is that I believe that one or both parties use the reality of the OC as an excuse for continued contact. As OW said to me at one point when she had begun to realize that maybe my H did, in fact, intend to stay in the marriage, "Well, you'd better get used to this, because we will be in contact for the next 20 years!!" <P>I think our husbands need to realize WE are the wives and stepmothers, and that the OWs have no place in a triangle. That is what I am trying to accomplish through our counselor. I think my H is beginning to put things in their proper prespective, but it has taken 3 years and more heartache than should have been necessary. Whether or not he ever really "gets it" remains to be seen. If not, I am trying to emotionally prepare myself for life without him, because I have no desire to spend the rest of my days in competition for my H's attention and love with this vile whore.<P>Wow! I sound tough, don't I? I'm really not. Today seems to be one of my assertive, angry days instead of a curl-up-in-the-fetal-position-and-cry day. Oh, well, it's early yet.<P>love, anniem <P><BR>

anniem I think you're right. My h was so worried about ow and baby back then. H even agrees it wasn't right.<P>I just hope we stay a team on this issue.<P>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....