Long time no 'word' huh? Straight to the point. Since my divorce in May things have been somewhat disorienting. One day fine next day not. I 'had' a girlfriend. Didn't work. She wanted more than I had to give and I guess I'm not completely over W/XW. W/XW has had a couple of boyfriends. Nothing lasting except for the relationship she has with the 'person' that caused the divorce, yes the OM.<P>Which brings me to my present rock and hard place. I am somewhat confused. Mixed emotions. Brief explanation... My W/XW and I have tried to stay friends after the divorce. That is one of the reasons my girlfriend and I broke up. I couldn't try to seriously see her while still harboring feelings for XW plus the fact that my XW and I are still 'physically' involved. I know that is not appropriate for X's especially Christian X's but... <P>Back to the point, our last 'encounter'...Wed night. She spent the night and..., Thursday night we have son's B-Day party at my house. After everyone leaves we are talking and she looks sad/perplexed. I probe into the problem and discover that not only is she still seeing OM/Boyfriend, but she is supposed to get MARRIED to him Tuesday. She is sad/perplexed because she says she has mixed emotions. Especially after the past few days with me. She says she wants to be with me but doesn't think I'll ever let her come back. She 'insinuated' that she feels trapped into the marriage.<P>So present problem...Is she 'trapped' or is this an excuse for her to go ahead and get married? Is she asking for me to 'rescue' her? Should I try and intervene? Or is this the Lord's way of finally separating us? Last night while speaking I kept teasing her about it (I tried to sound neutral, don't think it worked) by saying after Tuesday we can't this or that etc, and she would say maybe, you never know. Was she saying we would still hang out after her marriage or that she might not get married? I informed her that I doubt that I would want to 'hang out' after she was married. It would be too weird. I even jokingly said 'perhaps Tuesday when I pick the kids up after work I might kid-nap you and make you miss your wedding. She smiled and said 'you could'.<P>So..What to do? Leave it be and walk away? Try and intervene? I'm not ready to recommit to her, but the possibility is there for the future (barring she gets married of course). So I wait, I pray, I think, any thoughts?<P>Cross-posted to Divorce group.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited August 17, 2001).]

Paul:<P>So, what's different than when you got divorced? Amanda has decided to marry the OM---even though she doesn't "want to".<P>Last we heard from her, she was going to stand firm for her marriage, even after the divorce. Has she? <P>I'd love to see a happy ending for you and Amanda. And I see an unhappy chapter for her in this upcoming marriage. She definitely should not go through with it. But that's her decision, and it shouldn't be based on a promise from you to marry her (as a rescue ploy).<P>If she's willing, and you're still up for it, I'd suggest counseling (and I haven't spent your fund yet...) . But if she's not willing to make these decisions (not to marry OM, to cut him out of her life, and to do counseling with you), I wouldn't expend much energy on this. Because it will indicate that nothing has really changed.

K: I guess that's kind of the news I expected. My "rescue" would not have been an offer of marriage. More like a continued offer of friendship and "we'll see". So far even after divorce letting her go has been the hardest thing I've ever done. She claims the marriage is because she wants to be "settled". She is not used to being alone. We were together 9 years.<P>She has not stood firm in anything except saying she wants to be with me, saying she will drop everything for me at any time. Saying she would move back in a heartbeat. But really that's all it's been, her "saying". No actions. Actually the actions have been the opposite. So...<P>Walk away? Let it go? I must admit this shouldn't be this perplexing, we're divorced already!<P>Thanks K.<P>P.S. I read your response in another thread and did not realize what you said about intimacy between you and your W. That must be really difficult. Bigger man than I. Much.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Hi Paul,<P>I was pretty much afraid of that. I would encourage you to let her know that you don't think she should marry (like she ever listens to you...). And I could see you putting an offer on the table to try counseling, end the affair, etc---but I thought that was already on the table.<P>I do think that you have to let her make her own decisions. And they're not likely to be good ones. AND you're going to have to stop sleeping with her!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I read your response in another thread and did not realize what you said about intimacy between you and your W. That must be really difficult.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you learn not to take it personally---it becomes easier to deal with. And for the most part, this isn't personal. It's health-related issues (physical and mental) that she's got to deal with on her own. I feel really guilty when I give people "sex/frequency" advice on the boards---it's always good advice, but I've never had any personal experience with success... <P>Hang in there, Paul. And it's terrific to see you back. Please stop by occasionally, even if it's just to say "hi."

Paul,<P>I am sorry to hear that your W/XW is treating you this way. I have followed your story, as it was similar to mine and my H's story. I agree with K, that you shouldn't be "rescuing" her from anything. You already tried that, when you were married, willing to accept what had happened, and move on with your marriage. From all that I have read, and I know that I have also missed a lot of your post and your W/XW's posts, you have done everything you could think of to try to save this marriage(short of taking the money offered to help with the phone counseling). To me, it looks as if she is looking for the easiest way to "live with herself", and is now finding that she probably feels even more guilty for the impending marriage to OM, because she knows that it is still wrong, even though you are D'd. I say that if she truly wants to reconcile, that she should agree to counseling BEFORE you both go any further with the relationship. I can understand her feeling lonely, after being together for 9 years, but that is NOT an excuse to get married, and she won't be very happy if that is the reason she is getting married.<P>I wish that I had better advice to offer to you. I really feel for you and your confussion about this whole situation. I will pray that you find your answers, and soon. But, don't act on anything until you have prayed, and listened for that answer. The last thing you would want to do is end up in the exact situation that brought you here in the first place.<P>Tigger

Paul,<P>I do not really know your story so if I am off base, I apologize now.<P>Oh my hell though! Sounds like she hasn't learned any lessons from her actions and the pain she has caused you. She sounds VERY childish and immature. Do she have serious self-esteem issues? She cheated on you with om, cheating on om with you and has boyfriends in between? How does she have time to sleep, work or take care of a family?<P>Let her marry and be a burden to someone else. You will have a much better chance of finding someone that appreciates you and will be faithful to someone. At the very least, you will have your life, self-respect and dignity. What will she have? Probably lots of horny guys waiting around the corner. You don't need to be one of the horny guys!<P>Sorry if this is inappropriate or out of line, but for some reason what I read just struck a nerve.

Dear Paul,<P>Ditto and Ditto....she is a grown woman and this is no fairytale. She obviously doesnt want to marry OM, so she needs to stand up for herself and make her own decisions instead of relying on you to stop her. You are a wonderful person but I am assuming you do not own a suit of armor or a white horse. Let the princess rescue herself from herself.<P>And K is absolutely right. You must stop sleeping with her. I know you must still have feelings for her, but what abotu you. You are doing nothing but hurting yourself. As kllong as you are intimate you will never face the real issues together..and that is a)it is over and you both need to move on ..or b) it is time for counseling to see if there is even a slight chance.<P>I realize how hurtful this must be for you and my prayers are with you and your xw to do what is right.<P>Love<P>bw

Dear Paul,<BR>I think that Amanda is a sick woman - and I mean that sincerely, not in a disparaging way. It appears that she is addicted to the thrill of illicit sex, and to be honest, I'm betting that she is planning on marrying om and manipulating you into the position of being the om. What she is saying "I'm not sure I want to be married to him", "I feel trapped into the marriage", "I wish somebody would rescue me", "I really want to be with you, not him" are probably the EXACT same thing that she said to om while she was married to you. Paul, you really need to step back from this situation before you get caught up further in it. Right now, you're just feeding her obsessions and enabling her to continue the same kinds of behaviors that led to your divorce. I think it is a fair bet to say that her marriage to om doesn't have a chance in, um, heck - if she does indeed marry him. But if there is to ever be a future for YOU and Amanda, I think you know that she is going to have to make some fundamental changes. but if you keep sleeping with her, you're not helping her or you. And if there is NOT going to be a future between the two of you, you must stop doing it or you'll never be able to move on.<P>best of luck paul.<BR>with love,<BR>cd

K: Again I believe I will state my feelings about the marriage and leave it at that. The sexual part will be tough but I'm sure my 'will' can prevail. This is one place that when you say it's good to be back...you kind of feel wierd! <P>Tigger: I can honestly say, other than not taking K's financial offer, I did try everything I could think of. Actually even after the D I sort of left 'a light on'. Your prayers are much appreciated.<P>samoyed: Are you sure you haven't read my story? You described her to a T. Actually though the guy she is marrying will more likely be more of a burden on her. He's a bumb.<P>broken_wings: My armor is dented and cracked and the horse ran off a long time ago... As far as the sleeping together goes...I think she actually puts more 'value' on it than I do. If I valued sex tremendously as an emotional tie then I would not have lasted through 4 affairs. Her loving somone else has always been what hurt me. <P>cdcollins: I've often thought about that. She does have self-esteem issues. Her boyfriend kisses her rear, I never did. I think she has a need for constant admiration (physically). I'm starting to get the idea that people think I should stop sleeping with her. I will. I probably won't even see her until Monday evening when I get the kids (I get them everyday) And the next day after I pick them up she is off to "The Chapel". So no time for sex right? <P>Anyone care to guess at something that is funny and somewhat disheartening? The minister marrying her is my 'uncle'.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.