My husband recently told me he loves me but is not "in love" with me, that he is not attracted to me, that he does not feel romantic and that we should divorce.

I am still in the shock stage as our marriage seemed fine until the past month when he suddenly started finding everything I did annoying. (He was always calling me honey, telling me he loved me, left flowers on my pillow, next to the bed, etc, making plans for the future)

Now he says he was faking it and just doing those things because I am his wife.

Any advice from someone in the same position is greatly appreciated

Dear Lost,

Fortunately, I am not in your situation, exactly anyway. You have looked at 180 Degree Divorce Busters posted by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN under MB Negotiating. That gives a list of changes to consider, with the idea of both making yourself more attractive, and spicing up the mariage. Even if nothing on the list seems right for you, you may get some good ideas.

It is a great sign that your husband has ageed to counseling.

Have you shopped for any counselors? I would make an appointment, at a convenient time, and let my wife know I was going, and sometimes she would show up. Some counselors cry when you don't bring your spouse, but some understand, and will work with you alone, if your spouse does not show up. Shop around. Price? on your plan? Recommended by others?

I suspect that some managed care marriage counselors are more interested in saving the plan money, than providing help to couples. Some 12 years ago, a Kaiser marriage counselor advised my wife and I not to go to the trouble to work it out, and recommended that we get a divorce. It took some work, but we did stay together, and usually we have a workable marriage.

Even with a good counselor, my wife would often be highly emotional for days after a session. Try to avoid Love Busters and love withdrawals. I made it a rule to never criticize my spouse in the session, and let my spouse decide what got discussed. If the counselor made a suggestion that I did not like, I would criticize the counselor rather directly, and vigorously.

I have personally gone through those stages of those feelings, like divorce would be better. My wife does not take an interest in my liesure activities, or political interests. Is there some aspect of your marriage that you could pick up? Is there some way to better support his interests?

Guys sometimes get involved with work. Is there some way to be supportive of his work? Would your husband agre to invite people form work for dinner?

You do not mention any children. What are his ideas about kids?

What type of a neighborhood do you live in? Where could you move to? What kind of vacations does H like? What type of self-improvement courses could you take together?

You may not wish to answer some questions. It usually takes a few posts and a longer thread to solve a marriage problem.

Find things to feel good for about yourself, and radiate beauty. Write down affirmatins. "I am feeling beautiful. I am radiating out beauty."

It does not sound like you have taken the Silva Method course. That would help you get a more accurate feeing of what you might do to make things better.

You have not posted a questions for men, "What can a wife to to spice up her marriage, to get her husband's love back." Have you read Song of Songs in the Bible? (Song of Solomon in some versions.) It is short, and discusses a woman's point of view in getting her lover back home.

It seems that you have an interest in changing to make the marriage better. Some people simply post for support. I try to mix both support and ideas for reflection.

Hopefully this is just a rough spot for happily ever after.

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Thanks so much for the reply. Unfortunately, the therapist he got through his work does "Object Relations" a psychodynamic form of therapy that is not centered on the marriage at all, but on how everyone feels and how that is connected to the early years and effects the now.

In the next session I'm going to bring up that that is not what I had in mind about therapy.

My husband moved into the other bedroom and wants to have nothing to do with me. He hardly talks to me, etc. If we do even start to to talk, he gets angry at me. I'm just now avoiding him and giving him his space.

I would love to spice things up and show interest, but right now he can't even have me near him. He also has impotency problems, but he told the marriage therapist he thinks that is because of me.

I'm going to work the 180, even though I don't have much hope. This is really difficult with holidays, my birthday, and our anniversary all coming up by the end of December.

We don't have kids, but wanted too. His impotency issues made this hard and even though I've asked him to go to a doctor, it didn't happen.

Any more advice will be greatly appreciated

Dear Lost,

The lack of communication concerns me. The therapeutic approach to go to the past, to look at today's feelings is a tedious road, and frought with the idea that you have no control over today's feelings because of the past. The idea of therapy is to give you a feeling of more control over today's options.

You may wish to improve your communication skills. Post me back some words, the back an forth and teh feelings, and I will give you some feedback. I will put forth a buffet of ideas for you, below:

I have taken the Dale Carnegie course
($1600.00), the Silva Mehtod ($350.00), and the Scientology Commmunications Course ($110.00). I have the Grades 0 to 4 Scientolgy Grade Charts of counseling questions, 4 volumes, ($80.00 apiece). I have taken Legal Negotiation seminars, ($250.00)

If I am having trouble communication with my wife, I don't start yelling at her, I look to my communication skills. I look over my books, and make a list of questions to try out to get things going. I try to avoid calling up other women for my commnications needs.

There are a number of communication drills, or role playing skits.

I will add some Tone Scale information, which you try to deal with the person in his level. If the person is at a lower level than usual, you can sometimes bring the person up by going 0.5 above his lowered level. If you want to just ignore the person, I go to 0.2 above his level.

I have been studying the Tone Scale on and off for 20 years. I focus on the levels that are giving me problems at the time of my problems.

Scientology has developed a TONE SCALE, as a formula for helping people feel more positive. One way to use the Tone Scale, is to increase 0.5 or 1.0 number value points above the current feeling, and once you have the higher level attitude, then work on 0.5 or 1.0 above that. I carry the chart in my wallet, so I can refer to it. You can work on yourself, or with one ormore others.

You can find Scietiogy Services in LA. The Tone Scale is described in detail in SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL( $55.00) by L. Ron Hubbard. Tapes and CD's are also available. Feelings of suicide might be Hopeless, 0.07, at the bottom of the range of the Tone scale. O.5 above would be Greif (0.5). Certainly you can feel sad about your husband having difficulties, and your being separated from H. 0.5 above that is Fear (1.0). You can probably understand fear, as you are uncertain of the future, and it could be reasonable to fear extended separation from H, and fear D, divorce, and fear that the extensive efforts you made to make the marriage work, may possibly not pay off, at least maybe not directly.

Next upward by 0.5 is Anger (1.5). You can target anger at the world situation that keeps your husband apart from you. You can be angry at the U.S. and World Economy, which falls short of providing the money for the Armed Services to adequately keep husbands and wives together. You can be angry at therapists who do not give your husband the cure that he needs quickly. 0.5 above that is Antagonism (2.0). This is criticism, or poking fun, which you can accuse Fate of having you working for the good of saving your marriage, and it seems not to be working, yet you know that you are doing good, but fate is giving you illogical results.

Next 0.5 above is Boredom (2.5). You have been trying the same thing long enough, with enough intensity, that you can see the repition, and that you have settled into a routine of trying, and not getting the opitmal results you hope for, and putting forth more effort again without seeing much tangible resuts, has now become the usual. You have a feeling of your own self worth though, that you are being a good person, doing the right thing, but rewards are delayed. 0.5 above is Conserviatism (3.0) which is feeling comfortable with things as they are, and hoping that nothing cahnges. Cheerfulness is 3.5 and Enthusiasm is 4.0, making things better, the top of life.

You can learn to recognize your husband's feelings of the moment, and then work on thinking 0.5 above that, and once you have brought him up, then work on 0.5 above that, to bring him up again.

Every level has a world view message. Anger, 1.5 is that many people deserve to be punished. To agree, "Many people are not getting the punishment that they probably deserve." Try shifting targets of anger.

Hang tough,

Quipper,
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struglging

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Lost,
HI, welcome to MB. You have come to a great place to learn to restore love in your marriage. I have a few questions and a couple of suggestions.

How old are you and your spouse, how long have you been married, any kids etc.
Have you read the Basic Concepts, the welcome thread posted by Group Effort and the Questionaire thread on the EN board has some great info, you should check them out. You might post there also, Alot of people that post there are going through what you are now.

Do you understand about LBer's because right now IMO that should be your main focus. Stop any LBer's annoying behavior, disrespect, angry outbursts, whatever they maybe. Even if YOU don't think it's a LBer he does and that is what matters. Your deposits won't help til you stop making withdrawals.

I agree with you about your counselor. Have you considered the Harley's? I know several who have counseled with them with great results. IMO you need someone worried about your marriage not your past.

Check out this site www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com
sign up for the newsletter and emails, you'll get little info everyday on improving your marriage.

Would your H do the questionaires? Will he read the literature here? If he won't don't try to push or teach. Learn all you can and implement it, do the questionaires yourself, trying to determine what are the biggest LBers for him and what his 5 most important needs are.

I am proof this works, a year ago I was hearing the same thing you have. My H had an A, but through MB and alot of change on my part, which led to change on his part (slowly). We have a WONDERFUL marriage. I can't describe how happy I am now versus how miserable I was a little over a year ago.

Please remember that we are NOT counselors, you will get some crummy advice here and some great advice here you just have to pick through it all and apply it to your situation. But please seek a professional marriage counselor or coach...

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}
le

I haven't read anything but your first post, but all the red flags of an affair are there. This is not to say that there definitely IS an affair - but I'd start looking if I were you.