I'm new here and haven't found much info for my particular situation. When my husband and I married 6 years ago he already had 2 children (had 3 but one died of SIDS). For the 10 years that we have been together (6 married) he had regularly visited his children. They now live about an hours drive away. I just found out four weeks ago that he and his ex also have a 13 month old. Needless to say I was in shock. We have talked, agreed to work on our marriage and have begun counseling (only had 1 appointment so far). <P>His ex (also the OW) has had 7 children. The first was her stepbrothers and died. Then two girls...the father of the first is unknown to dh, the father of the second she was married to for a short time. DH is the father of the rest. All of her living children have been taken away by the state for abuse and neglect. Dh's children are now back with her. The older two never went back. The oldest was out of the home for about 11 or so years, the next one has been out for about 4 years, dh's were out for about 6 months. Whether or not dh had an affair with her or not, I have never thought highly of her. She has limitations socially and intellectually (now add morally to that!) <P>Dh asked two weeks after d-day if someday he could bring our 3 year old son to visit the girls. My reply was NO! I do not want ds to know the his father has a child as a result of an affair. I also don't want him to have any contact with any of the children. How can the other two keep this last one a secret? Ds has never met any of them. <BR>I don't ever want to see this oc. I will never deny him seeing them. My feeling is that when he chose to have sex with OW and chose to make a child ( you don't accidentally get pregnant 7 times on her part and 4 times on his part!) then he also chose to have two separate familes. I don't like the message it gives ds about the way a man treats a woman and specifically the way a husband treats his wife. Do you think this is unreasonable?<P>Another question....I just ordered and received "Surviving the Affair" today. Everything I've read says end all relationships with OW in every respect. How can this happen if he goes up to see these children every other week? She is there also( I don't want him to ever bring them to my house!) He's been twice since I've found out. It is so extremely hard for me...after all that's how he carried on this very long term affair. I told him last weekend that I expect him to realize how inappropriate it is for him to have her tag along with them when he and the girls do something. I didn't tell him this but I don't like him hanging around the house with her there. She needs to take responsibility also and leave! while he's there. How do I deal with all of this?<P>I've got many more questions and thoughts but I'll save them for another time.<P>I truly feel we can work things out. This just weighs very heavy on my heart and mind.<P>Any thoughts or ideas?<P>Thank you.<P>

Dear why,<BR>I don't know what to say. H has 4 kids w/xw. Did you guys visit?<BR>Did he go alone?<P>Geeze I think now it's only about the marriage and the two people in it that matter,<P>no kids will be around when you are old.<P>maybe your H will accept only you and yours but if his other 4 c's are involved in his life I don't see that ending. It could be set up through a third party and neither of you would have to have communication w/xw.<P>This way he could still spend minimal time w/c's.<P>Yours is a hard one.<P>I hope soon others will come along and comment.<P>Prayers and love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Thank you for your reply. My husband only has three living children with OW. The third is a result of his affair. His older girls are 12 and 10 1/2. Just think of the moral lesson their parents have given them! They know that their father is married and their mother chose to have an affair with a married man. I find her just as responsible. She knew what she was doing even if she's not very bright!<P>Dh went to visit them by himself. Before our son was born they would occasionally come here, but soon after ds was born they moved (thank God!) farther away. I have NO desire to ever see his children again. I don't even want to hear him say the name of the OC. I hated that he talked about her in counseling.<P>I have no objection to him visiting them. He goes every other Sunday for the day. I just don't want OW around when he does. She has been trying to get him for almost 14 years now. My husband told the counselor that when he told OW it was over she was angry because she thought I would kick him out and they would be together.<P>It's such a mess. He says he wants to be with ds and I and I believe him. I know how important a son is to dh and I am so glad OW only has dd's with him. (SUch a mean thought I know!)<P>I wish he could understand and have the guts (he's whimpy about confrontation) and tell OW she can not be around. That's what's hard on me. Every time he's gone to visit (only twice since I've found out) it feels like any progress we have made has been nullified.<P>I'm not jealous of her. There is nothing about her or her life that I envy. I know dh had the affair with her because it involved very little effort on his part. I am embarrassed by the person he chose over me. She's nothing to be proud of. I especially am embarrassed that he chose to have children with her...she is about the worst mother. Her skills globally are lacking...and all I notice the same in her children. I truly believe (and have even before the affair) that his girls are going to be the kind of girls who end up pregnant at an early age. I say this only because 1. they are desperately seeking love and affection and have learned this behavior from their parents...and 2. as an escape from what they live day to day. It seems to me that the first man who says, "oh, baby I love you"...it's all over!<P>I did the math the other day. 42% of his weekly pay goes to child support. I resent that I have to support him so he can support all of his illegitimate children.<P>This really is a tough one. I am truly looking forward to getting to the point in counseling where we can really discuss this thoroughly.<P>Thanks for taking the time to read this.<P>

Why,<P>My h had 2 children from 2 women before I met him. I knew that and accepted it. I realized his money would be used for child support and all that. We had discussed many times birth control, women who get pg on purpose and all that crap.<P>I have been there for him and his children. One of the mothers is a total addict/skank (3 other kids - 2 different me) and this was the child I got close to during a brief time when everyone got along. The other mother is a nice, semi-mormal girl that takes care of her child.<P>Well, my idiot h got on drugs and screwed his girl dealer. The story goes much further, but she ended up knocked-up. We are not sure if he is the father, but of course she says he is. He is the only one of the addicts that did her that is married to someone that works and has things. They are all a bunch of scumbags (yes, my h was one of them).<P>She says she is giving it up for adoption. I will not know until 6 months away and the baby is born and they are past the time frame for the mother to change her mind.<P>I understand your dilemma a little. I have been jealous at times when h would see his other kids and all that crap. You have more reason because he did her under the guise of seeing his children.<P>You are doing all the right things, but you may want to reconsider your stance on the children. If the only child was the one from the a, I would agree with you 100%. He has other children from her though. Is there any way you could include the kids in your life. They are at such a disadvantage and have a horrible road to face, but they could do it a lot easier if they had someone decent (you) showing them the right way to act. All they have seen are pigs (their mom and dad) and they will behave the same way. You have the chance to make a difference in their lives. <P>If you don't want to see the ex, maybe the older children could meet you somewhere and you could pick them up. You can still keep the no-contact rule between your h and the ex, but it is not the girls' fault that their parents could not keep their pants on.<P>This is all up to you. I understand your anger and other feelings. I hope your h continues counseling and you cintinue to heal. This is a crappy thing we deal with everything just makes it worse. BTW, have you thought about taking custody of the kids? It probably would be pretty easy.<BR>

Thanks samoyd for taking the time to respond. It sure is a tough one!<P>I really don't want to see his older girls either. As far as I'm concerned they are his kids and I don't want a relationship at all with them. When they were younger they used to come over. It was awful. Dh did very little to care for them...he didn't know how to be a father. I don't want to raise her children and I don't want the responisbility of raising his. I know how little he does now to help out. No way, I'd rather them go into foster care if that were the case. I feel nothing for them and really never have. I know how awful it sounds and I hate myself sometimes for feeling that way but that's how I feel and I've felt that way long before he had the affair and the other child. They are also not the kind of children I want around my son. They are ill behaved, socially inept and require a lot of effort that I don't want to give. I've raised my 21 year old dd, my 3 year old ds and for 2 years my young nieces. I'm done! I am only worrying about myself, and ds. If it ever came down to them having to live with us I would divorce dh first. That's how adamant I feel about the whole thing. <P>Please believe me I am not as terribly cold hearted as this post sounds. I am a caring and giving person well respected for those beliefs, but in this case I'm unyeilding!<P>I am not opposed to him seeing them, paying his fair share for child support (one would think condoms cheaper!)or having a relationship with them. I just don't want to be involved. I also don't want OW spending any time with him. I wish he would just take the kids out of the house or that she would be smart enough (hard concept for her) to leave and let him visit. There's alot to be worked through. I hope I can manage.<P>Thanks again for reading my post...and again, I'm not really a mean spirited person. I hope I am not coming across as such.<P>Take care!<P>

Dear Why, I appreciate the way you were able to so intelligently describe the OW, to articulate her traits so well. I felt I almost know her! (or someone like her!) I didnt get the feeling you said those things out of jealousy, but just that you could see the situation for what it was, and these are the facts. Isn't it great some people dont have to resort to the name-calling thing because the facts @ the OW speak for themselves. With my H's OW Ive never had to call her a B**ch, Wh**e, Sl*t, or any other name. I've only had to bring out the facts about her, and what I know my H feels about people like her. How, in the past, he's never wanted to spend time w/ male or female people like her because he is too impatient & irritated with their particular idiosyncricies (sp?) I have told him.."I tell you these things as a friend, someone who knows you & cares @ you, not as a jealous wife." And the tone of voice, & the way Ive said it, he knows it's true. He told me he knows its true. Its just his heart gets in way when it comes to her :{ Therein lies my problem. Or should I say his. But thats another story. Any way... when I asked him how he got involved with someone like her, he said he felt sorry for her at first & wanted to help her. Somewhere along the way, he stopped helping her w/ his brain, and started helping her with his "head." Some days I understand Lorena Bobbit!!!!! (Hey! we have to keep our sense of humor...Jimmy Buffet says in his song "Changes in Latitude"..."if we couldn't laugh we would all go insane!") You sound very sane to me, so you must be laughing alot?!

Heart of Hope,<P>Thanks for your reply. I never imagined I would be going through something like this. I think the fact that there is another child makes it so much harder for me. I would have loved to have more than 1 child with dh. The one we have I had to practically beg for. He was not happy that I was pregnant. We agreed to only one..we are both getting older (I'm 40..he's 45) and financially we can't afford it. Two kids in daycare (we both work) would be impossible. I'm so hurt and angry that he had a child with her after all of this. When his 2nd daughter was born he told me that a friend of OW told him she got pregnant on purpose to trap him...what did he think this time? All I can say is you don't have 7 accidental pregnancies!<P>The only time I've called OW nasty names is in my head LOL! I don't hate her. I feel sorry for her. She continues to perpetuate such a low quality of life for herself and her children.<P>Yes, humor is my saving grace! Dh also uses it to deal with the situation. He is trying so hard to work things out. It was his idea to go to counseling. That's something else I thought I'd never do. We went to our 2nd appointment last night and go again on Monday (his birthday). The next one is going to be hard on me. We start talking about issues.<P>I haven't really expressed many of the issues I have with him. I'm afraid that once I start it won't stop coming out. I've been waiting to do it with some guidance. I'm sure I'll be doing alot of crying on Monday. I don't think he fully understands the range of emotions I've been feeling. <P>I want very much to ask him if he is really aware of OW's limitations (and there are many!) but I don't want him to perceive it as an attack. I also think he is aware of the fact that his children are very much like her but he doesn't want to admit it to himself. There were times years ago when he would hint at it. He's told me that he feels insecure because he doesn't feel as smart as me so I wonder if that is why he fell into a relationship with her. Too many things to ponder so early in the morning.<P>I'm rambling...sorry.<P>Thank you for taking the time to reply. It is truly appreciated.<P>Take care

Why, Don't being reasonable. Thats all you can do. The counciling sessions will help you say whats on your mind because you will be asked alot of "How do you feel about that?" kind of questions. My H & I went for 3 months after DDay. We quit because, by that time we were spending alot of time talking ourselves, & getting things "worked-out" (if you can call it that.) When we would go to the therapy session we were digging up stuff we'd already resolved, and bringing out the bad feelings again. My H & I have talked non-stop for 6 months now. Some times for 3 hrs at a time. Sometimes till 3am. And I have eexpressed every thought & feeling I've had about everything because I figure I have nothing left to lose. One of the problems w/ H & me is that we have never been very good communicating. He has a quick temper, and I just decided early on in our relationship I would rather withdraw than get into an argument w/ him. He doesnt get violent or anything, its he has a way of turning things around so hes always right, or hes always the good guy. His good qualities have always outshined this one bad attribute, so Ive just dealt w/ it. But by not having that confidential talk for all these years contributed to the A. He finally found someone he could talk to. He said he could talk w/ her about anything. So her other personality traits werent that important to him. He craved the conversation. With all of their talking came the emotional bond. And the emotional bond led to the lack of clear thinking ability. I told him he didnt have a clear thought the whole time he was with her. I wish I had a dollar for everytime hes said over the past 6 months "I didnt think about that!" Yeah! thats because you were too busy talking & screw**ng w/ out a condom! Anyway...the one thing I have been careful not to do (Except for once) is to attack her in such a way as to say to him "look at the loser you picked!" I just try to reason with him why I know this girl isnt for him. And knowing my H for 26 yrs. I know the kind of people he has always chosen to spend his time with, its not her kind. I'll compare her w/ someone whe know & say dont you see she has this same trait as so-N-so and you cant stand to be around him for more than 5 mins. His reply..."I never thought about that!" DUH!! As you were saying about the preg. issue. 8 yrs ago our son was diagnosed with Muscular Dystrophy. Its a progressive muscle wasting disease. That mean every day he gets weaker and weaker. We made the decision not to have more kids because of the effort it will take to care for him in the future. (we have a 17yr old girl and the boy whos 13 now.) Were both 46. At the time I asked him to have a vascetomy, he wouldnt so I got an IUD so there would be no accidental pregnancy. To be so careless w/ her for 10 months when we had already jumped through so many hoops in 23 ys of marriage not to be pregnant at certain times,(Ive done the BC pills, diaphram, condoms, creams...you name it!) just blows my mind. This shows me he wasnt thinking clearly. I told him even teenager know enough to take $10.00 to the drugstore for something! He told me he & OW used the withdrawal method. DUH!! I asked him if that worked dont you think WE would have used that instead of everything else we did over the years? I dont have to tell you what he said...you got it!! "I never thought about that!" Talk about being smarter than our H's! I always thought he was the smart one in the family. Now I see him differently, and have new insite into my own smarts & strengths. That gave me a new powerful feeling, and I not afraid to say whats on my mind anymore, because I realize how really stupid he can be. He doesnt know it all, afterall! Hang in there. I keep reading your posts. Youre doing great dealing with all you have on your plate. I admire your strength. <P>PS: The one time I did get ugly about what I said @ her was this: I just have to tell someone. Its really stupid on my part, but kinda funny & makes me laugh when I think of what I said. First the background on why I said what I did: the way I found out @ A was through cards, letters & pictures of them together in a bag in H's car. In one of the pics. she was standing off in the distance, her curly hair down, framing her face which I immediately noticed was in the distinct shape of a peanut. Secondly: I have spoken w/ her a few time and she uses the most annoyed, monotonus, cold voice she can w/ me. No voice inflection, no lilt of any kind, just a very ugly voice. Anyway the other day when OC was born & she called to say so. I told H I wanted to say hi to her. In this really stern voice he chastises me to "keep it short" (what did he expect?!!) When we hung up we got into a big fight because I told him he embarrased my by saying that so she could hear, like he was standing up for her, & putting me in my place. I stormed out of the room, but came back in and said: "By the way her head is shaped like a peanut, and she has the dog-ugliest voice I have ever heard!" Since then I have been referring to her (in my own head) as the peanut-head, dog voiced, man-eating, a** and half. I even made up a little tune to sing it to. I crack myself up with it. Im a weirdo, I know.. BYE :} Gotta keep laughing!

TO WHY: MY first sentence should say "Dont STOP being reasonable." I think you are, and being reasonable is a good thing. My fingers just forgot the important word between dont...and reasonable. Sorry for the mix-up. :{

Why,<P>I don't think you are cold-hearted actually. I feel the same was as you in many ways. <P>I tried to have a relationship with his oldest child. His mother is a drug-addict that is married to a terrible guy 15 years older. I would go pick him up, take him to normal places, make him feel secure in his own room, gave him an allowance, read with him and just about anything else families do together. He got hospitalized from stress at 9 when his mother and step-dad were raided for dealing drugs. At the hospital, social services was talked to about the living conditions of the child by his the mother of his other kid. She later told the first mother we did it. Contact was stopped. H has no visitation rights, only child support. They did this judgement without him even even being in the same state. <P>The 2nd child he had before we met was conceived with a responsible young woman whom didn't want us in the child's life. If she couldn't have my h, she would not let him be a part of the child's life. She did go for child support, but weird things happened and she got very little cash and no cs.<P>There were many times I refused to have anything to do with the first child because of the mother. Then, I started really feeling bad for the child. He didn't deserve what he got dealt in life and I changed the way I thought about it in my head. See, at first when he came over he was misbehaved and odd. After he was there, he started feeling comfortable and I think I made a positive impression with him and that makes me feel great, much better than the hate I have for the mother.<P>The child conceived during the affair is not born yet. We haven't heard from the mother concerning that other than the initial announcement she gave us because my husband totally ignored her. All I know is the due date is soon. I so hope she does put the child up for adoption. I have barely thought of any other scenario. I truly don't think I will be able to look at the child and become a part of its life. Maybe that will change if the circumstances go that way, but I hope they don't.<P>I do understand you and your feelings. I have them too. Sometimes I force myself to look at the positive things I can do for a child instead of how much I wish they didn't exist. <P>I am a firm believer in marriage, children, no divorce and no other families. I have waited a long time to have kids when the time was right - financially, mentally, physically and all that. The main reason we got married was because we were ready for children. I was supposed to be pregnant a year ago, but he started going insane and I just knew I could not deal with that and I was unsure about us. Little did I know a few months later he would misbehave so badly I kicked him out, then he would shack up with his drug dealer and have an affair with her, 3 months later he would come back home, 2 months after that I would discover the affair and 3 months after that the ow would inform us of her pregnancy.<P>Life is crazy, isn't it?