Ok, here's my OW update. It seems so very trivial in relation to Mina's latest news. But here goes anyway...<P>A few nights ago OW calls my cell and in her usual "you owe me something because i'm intitled" tone says for me to have H call her tonight. (she doesn't have H's new cell number.)<P>So guess what she wants? She wants $50 more a month AND she wants him to pay her in weekly installments! I was floored. Of course H can't see this is just a way for her to get H over her house once a week to see OC. Remember H cut out visitation indefinately. He sees her breifly when he drops of her money once a month.<P>Anyway, my trouble starts the minute he tells me. Of course i get pissed, but was trying to keep my cool. After calmly discussing it for a second, I blurted something about I can't believe the s*h*i*t she keeps trying to pull.<P>Well, H got super defensive of her and started raising his voice. His point to make a long story a little shorter was that she is a single mom in need and it isn't very Christian of me to not give her help when we can. He's not giving her the extra money but will give her the weekly installments! He got very angry with me for being what he called still bitter and unforgiving. And that if I was truely being touched by God like I say I was I wouldn't be holding on to the bitterness and would forgive her. I pointed out that she hadn't asked for forgiveness and he said that someone doesn't have to ask or earn forgiveness it's something you do in your heart with God. You put the punishment in his hands.... "forgive those who trespass against us".<P>So frustrated, I went to bed. The next day we didn't talk all day. That night when I got home she calls to ask about a dresser my H promised he'd get her out of my sister's storage.<P>Again, irritated that she called again, back to back. I "copped and attitude" and said a messed up remark. And again he laid into me about being unchristian.<P>I guess I was totally irritated that he jumped to her "defense" and the fact that she expects us to jump through hoops. <P>She got pregnant on purpose. She had four kids as a single parent. She chose this life. Why do we have to be her saving grace. Why do we have to be the deliverer of her blessings. My husband keeps reminding me how we've been blessed financially over and over again just in the nick of time. <P><BR>I don't want to save her! And it makes me so angry that he feels like he has to.<P>Am I being Unchristian? I felt so cold and heartless after he and I talked. I went upstairs and took a long shower and cried (which I haven't done in a long time). I wanted to scream to my H, "I feel this way because I hate her." I hate what she's done to my family. I hate that she has manipulated my husband into believing she was on birthcontrol and now extorts money out of my household. I hate that she won't just disappear. I hate that she befriended me online before d-day and got me to talk about personal things between h and i. i hate that she solicited my H for sex well after d-day when he made it clear to her that he didn't want her anymore. I hate that she will be in my life, on my phone, and in my mind for at least the next 17 years. <P>But i can't express this hate to my husband. He seems so repulsed at me for feeling such negativity. I explained to him I can't be so saintly right now. but he has no idea how much hate is in my heart.<P>Ladies... pray for me to lift it. I don't want to feel this way about her. i want to release this from my heart. But how?<P>One thing he said that struck a chord with me was that he hates the fact that he knows when she calls it pains me. But he also knows he must look out for the wellbeing of his child. I can tell from those and other comments he made he too is struggling with this whole thing. I think his conscious bothers him. I think he feels bad about not wanting to be involved in OC's life. And I know that everytime I show emotion regarding OW it probably rehashes the guilt he feels about what he's done to me.<P>I had started weaning mysef off of the Wellbutrin. But after that second episode, i started taking my full dose again. I hope in a couple of weeks I'll be able to let her calls roll off my back again.<P>Oh yeah, by the way, he said he gave OW his pager number so she could just page him if she needed something. He doesn't want her calling here or my cell anymore because of how it upsets me. he's probably right, I don't need to hear her voice, it seems to set me off right now. And I trust him with the pager thing... he could have easily given her the cell. But I know he knows she'll start hounding him for every little thing. He said she was irritated that she couldn't just call the house when she wanted any longer. Says he keeps pushing her and OC farther away. I guess I can take comfort in her thinking the pager is a step farther away and not a step closer (a direct line to H without me as the middleman.)<P>Ok, ladies ... what's your take on this latest and greatest.<P>Z.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Hi zebra,<BR>What your h is not understanding - indeed what so many people do not understand - is that you are not getting angry over the transgressions of the past, you are getting angry over the things that ow is doing NOW. I don't think there is anything at all unchristian about being upset at ow's selfish demands and inconsiderate actions.<P>don't let ANYBODY make you feel badly for feeling badly!<P>Geez, zebra, you'd hate to see the way I'd carry on if ow was making demands like that. I would be a witch with a capital "B".<P>It is not your duty to play knight in shining armor to the ow. You have no obligation to her whatsoever. Your h has an obligation to contribute to the support of the child - which he is doing already - and that's where his obligation ends. I don't think you are being at all unreasonable thinking that it's not his duty to comfort her and provide her with emotional support.<P>I would be concerned (and you know how I am with these things) about the fact that you are being shut-out of the contact procedures. I know that it may be comforting to you not to have to deal with ow directly, but it gives me a funny feeling to think that ow now has a direct line to your h that doesn't involve you. I think you would be better off remaining a united front. <P>But that's just my opinion. Call me nosy if you will...heh, heh.<BR>-cd

CD,<P>you know i don't think you are at all nosey. As always I value your opinion.<P>To be honest. I'm not in a good frame of mind to deal with her right now. And I know if I wanted to again be the point of contact H would make it so. It really is best that he take over for right now. Because I feel volitile with her and quite frankly, he's right, we can't afford financially to push her to court. And believe you me, I'd be right there pushing her buttons.<P>And it's not emotional support he's giving her. Believe me, I already put my foot down on that one!<P>This is strictly financial. She had no bed for her and her other three kids to sleep on. We gave them our guest beds from the basement that we never use. Now we plan to give her a dresser, since they have none. And she is raising four kids without state assitance. Financially she does need our money. <P>But I just hate that I didn't put her in this place to need it!<BR>'<P>Z.<BR>

zebra,<BR> maybe I missed it put don't you have some sort of court order for support? If not please br VERY careful becuase the money you give her can be viewed as a gift sometimes.

Z,<P>Whatif brings up a valid point. All the CS you guys pay her could be considered a gift. I know in my state it is. One of my ex-employees took care of his son for 3 years when him and his GF broke up she took him to court. Even though she didn't have a reason, his son lived with him 3 days out of the week. The judge still ruled everythig he was doing (paying $150 a week daycare) and has done in the past was a gift. Please be careful! Pay exOW by check or money order and write child support for oc in the memo section. That way if she cashes the check/M.O. she agreeing that it's CS. As I was saying to you earlier I understand your feelings and I know where your frustrations are coming from.<P><BR>Unsure

Totally agree about protecting yourselves financially ala state ch-support laws... please! Also keep receipts and so forth. Also, why give her the money in person??? Why not mail her a check or money order!?!<P>I don't think you're unreasonable zebra. And I'd be nervous about the XOW having her own way to page your H... just doesn't sound necessary.<P>The Bible does say to pray for, be nice to, our enemies, but I too find it difficult to do. Maybe we should try it together... (I should add that one passage says that in being nice to our enemies, we "heap burning coals on their heads"! )<P>Prayers,<BR>J<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited August 31, 2001).]

ZebraBaby,<P>Okay, so she wants an extra $50 a month, spread out into weekly installments with your husband bringing the money to her. So, say after a month of that, she gets a little squirmy again and says "Hey, I want ANOTHER $50 a month and I want to spread the payments out daily!" <P>With some people, Zebra, you give them an inch, they take a mile. You give in once, they'll expect it next time they get in a bind and then after that, they start to demand it. <P>You and your husband are under NO obligation to feed her face, cloth her other kids, nor provide furniture. The ONLY obligation your husband has is to feed HIS child and that obligation only extends to what the child support laws state. I don't care if you're a millionaire, Zebrababy. She is taking advantage of your good will, your financial position as well as turning child support into blood money. <BR>You and your husband have become an ATM machine. <P>If your husband wants you to be more Christian like, send some extra money to an organization for abused children, homeless children, etc.. <P>I would also research the child support laws in your state. Figure out what the monthly payment would be as if you were being taken to court. I don't know if she works or not. It's not your problem. The courts will mandate that she either work or take a lessor amount given that she could be working. Again, you are under NO obligation to support her other children! ONE child is your obligation. One. She is entitled to NOTHING. It's the child who is entitled. If she's not woman enough to support her own kids, perhaps a round with the child custody courts will knock some sense into her. <P>Zebrababy, document every single conversation, material possession given, money sent, money spent, phone calls, return calls.. everything. Write it all down, details and all. Keep it close. It may work out to your benefit later on.<P>If she wants more money, tell her to find a job. She's not entitled to stay at home and sit around. If you're sending your husband over every month, week.. whatever.. it has to stop. Tell him to start sending it, with return receipt requested, monthly. <P>Take care of yourself,<BR>CoR<BR>

Dear ZebraBaby,<P>First of all I am so sorry that you are feeling out of control again. I too went off my anti-d and have now gone back on. I only lasted 3 weeks off of it. I feel weak for needing to be back on it. Of course, if you told me that you feel weak for needing to be on it, I would give you at least 10 valid reasons why it is not weak. Wish we could all be as forgiving of ourselves as we are of our friends.<P>My thoughts reecho many of those already made:<P>a) H mails the check to ex-OW, weekly, monthly it really doesn't matter, but the mailing is the important part<P>b) Does ex-OW have email? If so that should be only method of communication open to her. It takes the sting out of the contact, gives you time to think about a response instead of being tied in to the instant response triggered by a phone call and yours or his emotional reaction<P>c) H is reacting out of guilt; WSs who have had a child have huge amounts of it<P>d)Talk to an attorney about ways to prove that what you are paying is child support. Protect yourselves financially<P>As for forgiveness, my only suggestion is prayer (and being back on anti-ds). Every moment of your time she takes up, every bit of emotional energy is one more bit of your life you give over to her. She has stolen enough from your life, don't give her anymore.<BR>e) H needs to work on his POJA skills. CD is right. It is not about what has gone on before, it is about the constant interference that still goes on<P>I think that loving our spouses when they are unlovable is an act of will not an emotion, maybe forgiving exOW might be something similar. We make it a decision and give it to God, even if we have to do it 30 times a day (my average )<P>I wish you shalom,<BR>MJ

You women are awesome. Thank you thank you.<P>First let me say that we have checked with H's fraternity brother who is a family lawyer. The money we are providing will not be viewed as a gift in our state. And yes we do keep receipts for everything we have provided. <P>But for the documentation/journal I haven't. I think after a couple of days I will suggest it to my H. And whether he agrees or not, I will start to document everything.<P>COR, you are right we give her an inch and she takes a mile. And again, it'll take her acting an [censored] for H to see it. And perhaps this weekly thing will start making him feel like that ATM machine you mentioned. I for one think it will. Patience has never been one of my virtues!<P>Whatif, you are correct we are not court ordered to pay support.<P>Unsure.. as we discussed earlier.. this too shall pass.<P>Jenny, we should try praying and being nice to our enemies. It's just going to take time to get me there!<P>COR, by the way, she does work. But i can't imagine how she makes ends meet with FOUR kids and living alone. I know I would at least have to have a roommate to share rent.<P>Mrs. Job, the OW used to have email when her brother lived with her... but he was bad news so she kicked him out. And out he went with the computer and the AOL account. So unfortunately it's the pager or she calls me and this house. Personally for the moment that's what I'm going with because I can't stand to hear her voice right now. If I change my mind in a few weeks so be it. That'll probably send her into a swirl! Make her jump through hoops for once! <P>And yes I hate the fact that I feel like I need my anti-depressants, but hell it's better than being a basket case!<P>Ok, let me tell you all about the convo H and I had last night. After my shower and I relaxed I went down and calmly told him that I had been thinking about what he said. I told him that I was searching my soul to figure out why I couldn't forgive her. And that my conclusion was that I can't forgive her because I hate her. And I listed all the things I wrote above and more. He started tearing up while I said these things. Just another indication that he is just as frustrated and guilt ridden as I expected.<P>Then I told him that I understand his desire to want to keep OC safe and comfortable and doing the things he does is because of his obligation to OC. <P>I told him I hated feeling like I was a slave to her and her needs.<P>I also told him that I was disappointed and saddened that I couldn't look to him when I was sad and hurt about this situation. And that spouses are suppose to be there to comfort you in you time of pain, and I didn't feel like I was getting that from him when it came to OW. I told him that he has been fabulous at being there for me emotionally when it comes to work or other issues I deal with from time to time, but on this OW thing he has just left me out in the cold. He again began to tear up.<P>And finally I suggested to him that he deposit her money into her account every week so that he wouldn't have to go over there. He eagarly agreed, and said he didn't think of that. (they never think do they?)<P>When I finished my monolouge, he spoke. Said that I was right he hadn't been there for me. And that more cleary now than ever before he can see where I'm coming from and why I do and react the way I do.<P>I have to admit, my delivery was much calmer and more clear than it had been the two discussions previous. It wasn't so "pity me the evil OW has hurt me again".<P>We kissed and hugged and went upstairs and handled our business. This morning was business as usual and I feel our good vibe again.<P>One other thing he said was that time will heal all of this. It's so funny that we just had a post about time healing us. It meant a lot when he said that because he realizes that I'm not just going to turn into mother teresa overnight.<P>So life is good for the moment. I am going to refocus and concentrate on my family and career and not let her stomp her way into my happiness. Ladies, help keep me strong when she knocks on my happiness door again.<P>Thank you again for your support. I don't know what I'd do without you.<P>Z.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Mrs. Zebra,<P>Wow! assertive, thoughtful and graceful. I hope Mr. Zebra realizes how lucky he is to have you. If he is ever in doubt, let me know and I'll tell him so. (If you promise to do the same for me. <P>Mrs. Job

Zebra girl, I am so glad that everything worked out with this issue and you and your h. I really think that delivery is a key to getting these h's of ours to see our point. Calm, cool, and collected always works well. Just keeping staying strong, and the xow will not be able to knock down your happiness door. She will ring the bell at the door again, they always do, but you and your happiness will just not be home for her to ruin. Hey, I got another analogy, the big bad wolf and the three little pigs, the xow is the wolf and you and your happiness live in a house made of brick so the ugly, old wolf can huff and puff all she wants but she can not blow your happiness house down. The end. Stay well sister, Talk to you soon, Peace, Gabi1116

Zebra,<BR> Glad to here everything worked out o.k. now if only I could learn to be cool like you. I try but usually lose it.I dont know if I'll ever be able to when it comes to ow sticking her nose in our lives, I kinda dont think so. Off to an all nighter we work nights tonight. with love flowerseed

Zebra,<P>I just started reading this thread, and where you were venting on why you resented the OW---I kept thinking<P><B>You've GOT to tell your husband</B><P>And you did. In a fantastic way. Nice job!!!!<P>

Z,<P>Just wanted to say you go girl!<P><BR>Tee

K, You never reply to my posts. it felt good to see your name under my thread. i always thought you didn't like me or something. thank you for the compliment. you always have wonderful things to say to everyone here.<P>gabi, delivery is definately crucial when dealing with our husbands. i'm learning this more and more.<P>mrs. job, i would be glad to educate mr. job if he ever gets off track. good luck with mr. zebra he's a stubborn [censored] !<P>flowersex, being calm and cool only comes after a couple of days of soul searching and serious thought. i get just as rilled up as everyone when we are in the heat of the moment. i'm just lucky mr. zebra cools down enough to listen.<P>unsure, my sista in recovery. thank you for your high five.<P>Z.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Zebrababy, you sure hit the nail on the head when it came to explaining your feelings about ow.<P>I think most of us here feel the same things you do.<P>I'm glad you resolved this sticky situation with your suggestions of depositing the $.<P>Bless you.<P>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Hi zebrababy,<P>Was carefully pondering your situation over the weekend. Asked my H and he was literally stumped--especially on the unChristlike accusation... Talk about inflicting a guilt-trip! YIKES!<P>I'm no authority on your walk with Christ, only you can determine where you are located and what God would have you to do in your specific situation. I'm going to give you my raw opinions. You guys seemed to have worked it out and I'm glad about that. Your husband obviously loves you very much and seems really conflicted with how to deal with OW now that OC is in the picture. IF there was no OC, how would he deal with OW? Would he have dropped her like a hot potato?!?!<P>OC definitely complicates everything, but how you deal with OC has no bearing on your Christianity, to me, it's a matter of what you both can and cannot handle and how God is speaking to you both to handle this. I believe God tells BOTH the SAME, not just one in marriage. Plus, let's not forget Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement...<P>I do not think it is a good idea for you to back down, no matter how tired you are. OW is not your enemy, it is the devil trying to creep into your marriage. Your marriage is unquestionably strong, you guys are still together, still in love and making love after all this has happened! Even your Christianity is still intact. I'd say those are incredible odds, but the devil doesn't give up easily. (We are not ignorant of his devices...)<P>IMHO, it seems like this exact scenario will come up again. Meaning, OW calling with some type of crisis or outrageous demand, your H will give in out of sympathy for OC, and leave YOU feeling like you are standing on shakey ground feeling less than #1 on his priority list. Hmmmm, OR how about this scenario. OW thinks of any excuse to call your H, OC has a cold, OC needs school supplies, OC said his/her first words--whatever--anything, just to have an excuse to call him?! And when your H comes to you, his explanation is that it was all regarding OC so have some compassion?! <P>It won't end, esp since YOU don't trust OW's motives. I surely wouldn't. She has already proven how manipulative and low she can go--trying to make friends with you to pump info on your man? Perhaps she was just trying to get YOUR side of the story to find out if HE was lying to HER? OMGosh, I don't want to get you all upset again. Let's change the subject... Basically I'm telling you that you are NOT making things up, I can identify with your emotions here. Take whatever pills you need to take, pray to God and scream your guts out in prayer and let God heal you so that you can face each incident together with your H. H needs your strength and discernment in this situation. (They don't call it "women's" intuition for nothin'...)<P>I for one, do believe that your H feels that you ARE his priority. He just doesn't know how to secure you in his love when these situations arise with OW/OC. That's where your prayers and patience will come in.<P>My personal reaction to the accusations of your being unChristlike is Hello! Being a Christian wife doesn't mean that I am supposed to just sit here and smile while another woman attempts to infiltrate and manipulate MY marriage and MY husband and OUR finances/possessions??????!!! <P>I'm sure she knows your H feels strongly obligated to her OC and so she maybe takes advantage, looks for excuses to call him? You know it and I know it, but H is seemingly unaware by his actions--only caring about OC but OW does NOT interpret it that way...<P>Sometimes we can spend so much wasted effort trying to convince others when they need a revelation from heaven.<P>We can be Christians and forgive with the door closed.<P>Also was reading this letter to Harley, and it has some VERY interesting points for couples to consider together when dealing with ANY members of the opposite sex. Hope it helps:<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024b_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Escaping the Jaws of Infidelity</A><p>[This message has been edited by BINthereDUNthat (edited September 04, 2001).]

Hi Z,<P>Just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you. I have been extremely busy and I have tried to at least read up on everyone. I think you handled it very well. Been there Done that.....very well thought out and I agree 100%. Being a Christian does not mean being a pushover. We stand up for what we believe and we believe in our marriages.<P>Love ya<P>bw

Hey Girl...I miss you!!!We just got hooked up tp a new server and am unable to get onto AOL as before, when I go on I have no buddy list come up...talk about being computer illiterate...anyway, I read your thread and was glad it all turned out better. You don't realize how much of a handle I think you have on this, and although my thick head may not show it, I am listening to you...but things are the same as as before...as soon as we get onto "AIM" I will let you all know...I MISS YOU GUYS!<BR>NGU