Hi Again:<P>I just posted and read another post that was entered as I typed mine.<P>I think it is very unkind and unloving to refer to another human being as "psycho". A lot of us in this forum have experienced grief, hurt, and pain. <P>It is wrong and immoral to throw a label of "psycho" at another person. <P>When we are hurt, distraught, lashing out, whatever... do we want to be called "psycho"?<P>I don't think so. It's wrong to throw labels at people. Let's walk in love.<P>In Christ,<P>Laura

Laura<P>You know nothing of the situation here. There is a looong history with this individual on this site and others. She has numerous identities which she posts under. She is in reality an OW who did not get her a man and so likes to harrass BW on this site and others.<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: KalGrl ]

Hi Bonnie:<P>You're welcome. It's not fun to feel picked on. <P>Laura

hi:<P>Maybe I don't know the history... but precious in the eyes of Jesus are each and every one.<P>In Christ,<P>Laura

There is no history to speak of. I am a strong person who doesn't mince words therefore I am "psycho" and apparently therefore I MUST be some other postes who they apparently didn't get along with. In any case, thanks again for seeing what is was I was trying to say.

It would probably be a good idea to ignore laura_lee as well. She has stated before that she is unmarried so she speaks without the experience many people need to get through marital problems. I don't see her often answer posts with anything to do with MB concepts. It's my personal opinion that she's fanatical, and I know firsthand how uncaring and harsh some of her responses are (so I find it interesting that she's defending Bonnie now).<p>Laura<p>[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Lucks ]</p>

Bonnie,
Please stop. You posted about a month ago and said that you had enough of this forum and that we were all "cliques" here and that you were no longer going to be posting here. <p> I realize that you have a right to your opinion, that's fine, but I honestly think that your advice is hurtful and you really can't relate to MOST of us here. You maybe need to look on the internet for a site where the betrayed spouses are really tough or really understanding or something. But for all of us, we are hurt, don't understand all the time and take each day as God presents it.

I wrote to Mills because I felt that we really related on the topic of how our h's treat us poorly and I wanted her to know that she is not alone. You have probably really scared her with this whole mess. Understand that some of us ( including me) are very new to this forum and are in the very first stages of dealing with the pain. <p>In the kindest way I can say this, please just try to understand that we don't need your kind here because you can't relate to MOST here.

mnca6713julia3<p>Hello, this is millsc1. Being still new to this I'm not quite sure when/when not to post anything or how to "reply" to people. But you seem "closest to my situation" since our H's aren't as "lovable" as they should be towards us. The last couple of evenings haven't been very good for me. I feel as if I'm being left out in the cold. Yes I moved out so that I could have some space for me and not actually have the contact of the situation 24/7. But I do miss H so much. We talk everyday and see each other almost every day. But last night was a "visiting night" w/OC after he got off work. Well, he was 10 minutes later coming home than usual. Yeah, I know only 10 minutes, but it felt like a lifetime to me. He goes to visit OC at the grandparents house, but when I asked him, he told me that OW was there also last night. So I figured that he had trouble saying goodbye to Mommy & baby that's why he was later. I told him that I feared he just can't let go. Being w/OW all day at work (she's now on 1st shift everyday with him) and then visiting 3 times a week. sometimes OW is at visits and sometimes she isn't. Regardless of what he tells me happens/doesn't happen I feel so depressed and alone. I feel as if he will always want to be around OW and I'm being lost in the shuffle. I asked him how much I meant to him and if he cared that only a single thread is holding us together anymore. His response was that no he didn't want to lose me, he loves me, but I moved out that must mean that I don't want it anymore. That couldn't be more from the truth. He said that isn't going to live w/me "lecturing" him every time he's 5 minutes late from somewhere, that I had to quit being that way. I told him that he brought those "thoughts/feelings" from me on himself. He said that we can't live that way. I just wish he loved me as much as I love him. When I said that to him, he said to me, "how do you know I don't". I just feel and see by his actions that he doesn't. But he keeps telling me he does. Yet I can stand there in front of him and cry and he tells me that I'm doing it to myself - he isn't doing anything wrong. I've asked him to put himself in my shoes and he says that he'd be more understanding that I've been! I just want the pain to stop! I'm sorry for rambling. Thanks for listening!

MNCA,
I am not going away. I did NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING wrong.

And frankly, I don't think we need YOUR kind. You are intimidated and offended by someone who is not weak and who encourages others to demand respect. Not only do you NOT demand it, you don't even think you have the fundamental right to! I think THAT is really scary advice to be giving women who have been terribly wronged. Now for the record, I didn't attack you, you came here telling ME to go away because you don't like my opinions. NOT very Christian if you ask me!

Hi:<p>I do not agree with an open marriage because that is against marriage builders concepts of fidelity. I don't like the glorification of infidelity, sexuality outside marriage, etc. I don't agree that strip joints are okay.<p>A point I will raise, a marriage builders concept, is that we cannot demand anything... including respect. Commanding respect is different from demanding respect. When we command respect, we take positive action steps in agreement with Dr. Harley's concepts. <p>None of us is perfect. All of us are going to struggle with angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, etc., etc.<p>When a person says that cannot relate to Bonnie, what they are saying is that they are making a personal choice not to love or relate to her. The problem isn't all Bonnie. It's that she is being rejected. If Bonnie is behaving in ways that seem to provoke or invite rejection, then we could pray for her, continue to love her, and address her behaviors in a positive manner without globally attacking her as an individual. We could try to create increased sensitivity and civility ourselves instead of pointing a finger at another person.<p>When we speak in a respectful manner, it is essier for others to relate to us in a respectful manner.<p>If Bonnie is indeed lashing out at betrayed spouses, then that is not productive behavior. But I honestly, in this post, do not see that happening... so please... let's not bring up yesterday. We all have histories. Another love buster is bringing up yesterday's issues instead of addressing today's issues in a positive, upbuilding, cheerful manner.<p>Again, none of us is perfect.<p>Rejection is painful whether it is the rejection of one's spouse... or even the rejection of a person with whom we have errantly had an affair. <p>I was married for 15 years and I am currently seeing someone. I have read a number of Dr. Harley's books and agree with his concepts.<p>God bless,<p>Laura

Millsc1,
I am sooo sorry that your first experience with this forum has to be confusing and downright "scary". Most women and men here are really here to help. They can really empathize with us, but when we have to deal with mean people or people who think they have all the RIGHT answers this forum can become "ugly". <p> I don't pretend to know the answers, I am only, like you, searching for a way to get through this. <p> I am really discouraged right now because of all the pain in my personal life and now this whole mess with this forum. You are experiencing a pain right now that I can relate to, Bonnie can't because she is past our stage. Maybe one day we will be that strong, but kind as well. <p> Maybe we can figure out a way to chat online together so it can be private and we won't have to deal with people that aim to kick us while we are down. Our h's already do a good job of that, wouldn't ya say?<p> I just opened up a yahoo account just for you. It is julia3@yahoo.com Hopefully I will here from you and then we can arrange a time to chat, maybe even we could talk on the phone. I will wait to hear from you and then as soon as I do, will close that yahoo account so nobody will be able to email me.

Dearest Mills,
I hope you can see through the distracting bickering to find some peace. I will address you and only you.
Have you read or are you familiar with the book entitled(may not be exact) "The power of a praying wife"? I also deal with a H who is not always the kindest with his words. It triggers my frustration, anger, and many other emotions I dont like to deal with.
I truly believe in prayer. What I have found is that if I concentrate on my relationship with the Lord and pray for my family, including my H, the Lord will take care of the rest.
Unfortunately, His response comes in His time and not ours, but He has begun to turn things around for us. It has been nearly a year since D-day and I am beginning to see the work He has created in my H.
I will add you and your situation to my prayers. Please continue to post and visit this site. God works miracles here too...believe it or not.

Hey Tryin:<p>I know you were talking to Mills... hope you don't mind. Wanted to jump in to amen you. Best counsel I've heard today.<p>I think that's the key of beginning to command respect... when we return to the strength of our relationship with the Lord... and begin to experience greater and greater peace by which to resist negative emotional reactions.<p>God's blessings to Mills... cause it IS very painful to endure wrong behavior... especially from those we love most dearly... our spouses.<p>God's peace to you... and God's strength as well.<p>I guess I'd say that reading the Psalms more and more would hopefully help to meet some emotional needs and bring healing. I've found them especially comforting intimes of trouble.<p>Love in Christ,<p>Laura

laura_lee--<p>I've posted directly to you in the EN forum. Awaiting your reply.<p>Laura

To one and all<p>This thread has been brought to my attention along with a couple of other ones.<p>First let me guide you to the Rules & Policies we all agree to when we register with the Marriage Builders Message Discussion Forum.<p>There is also another rule on the Marriage Builders site about disrespectful judgments in a marriage. I believe that rule applies here as well. <p>Everyone is an individual and free to voice their own personal opinions, as long as (and this point is very important) we don't disrespect someone else's opinion, convictions or feelings. This thread has gotten off topic and contains some very disrespectful judgments. <p>Please everyone, can't we play nice? <p>Concentrate on using these boards for their intended purpose, which is to Build Marriages! It is not a place to argue, hurt or be cruel to someone. Hasn't each member on this site experienced that enough in our personal lives without imposing it on another valued member of this site?<p>In advance I would like to thank you for your attention, consideration and cooperation of this matter.