As many of you may already have noticed, last night Tempest (our board Administrator) suspended the posting privileges of the member called Quipper.

In order to move forward afresh, I have closed several of the topics that were related to this member. This does not mean that discussions on the subjects need to halt. If you wish to continue to respectfully discuss these issues, you may start another thread on the topic(s).

I thank you all for your patience in this matter and the concern you have for our MB community.

Thanks,
Nokomis

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Nokomis ]</small>

I like fresh starts --- it's bright and sunny here this morning --- very cold.

Still feels very wintery and there's a thin covering of snow still on the ground from the weekend.

So --- I'm game --- I have a new topic...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jan

Thank you Nokomis,
One of the subjects in question is one that I personally have researched, worked hard to educate others, rally against, guide survivors thru/past etc.

It is very difficult to even "discuss" the issue when there is even just one person trying their darnedest to justify the exploitation and victimzing of other people, especially people who are not in a position to "defend" themselves.
It is rather aggrevating and frustrating. There is NO talking sense into such people or debating morality as they are living in thier our FOG. And a very thick FOG it is.

Personally, I felt sickened and violated reading the poster's "rationalizations". I simply could not bring myself to respond in any manner to the thoughts that were posted. It is a subject that I feel striongly about, and yet I could not find the words. For that I am sorry.


So for now, I will work to "save" the children in my own little world. I will work hard to help them to know that such thinking is not alright and they are better than that. I will teach them to stand up for what they know in their heartsd to be right and true. I will teach them to take care of themselves in all situations.

A prayer for Quipper. May he one day feel remorse. May he one day understand the moral issue at hand. May there never be any one whom he holds close to his heart fall victim to such rationalizations.
A prayer for Quipper's wife as well. May she continue to have the wisdom and strength to stand up for what she knows is right, despite the odds apparently against her. May she always be blessed.

My heart cries for all of the children who, in the time it took for Quipper to post his thoughts, were victimized and forever scared. My heart cries for all the people in the world who feel that they have no other way in life but to sacrifice their bodies, souls and wellbeing for the selfish NEEDS of another human being. May all the sexual victims in this world one day find peace /w in themselves.

xo
H

Tempest rocks. I think this poster was not here so much to learn and participate as to find a forum for promoting his own extremely odd ideations.

That is what I found extremely sad.

It also seemed as though he were trying desparately to find just one other person who would validate any one of his "thoughts".

I unfortunately read his posts as if Quipper had no sadness or doubt in his mind as to what he thought was "right" and "acceptable". My unfortunate experience tells mne that this is often the case. No remorse.

It is the "no remorse" bit that bothers me the most.

The no remorse seems a lot like a WS who when coming home from the affair wants to still blame the BS for the whole thing.

-jC
Living that right now, except she doesn't stay at home...

My word, I hear you JC.
and Bless you

Part of me really sympathized with Quipper as he tried to get his point across...but only because I've felt smothered and unable to put words together to express myself on heated topics a few times. As I began to pay attention to the hype, I kept waiting and hoping for his words to come together...I thought maybe he'd recognize how horribly his words were being perceived, identify a mistake that caused people such reactions, apologize and correct himself. That never happened, did it. I've had a few nice discussions with Quipper and was having a hard time seeing him as malicious or coldhearted, but he just kept digging himself deeper.

It's strange to me to see someone exiled because of his opinions, although I definitely see how consistently inappropriate some of his comments were. All in all, fair warnings were given and he kept pushing. I imagine if he weren't so vocal with the newest and most vulnerable MemBers, he might have slipped through the cracks. I hope no one was hurt. I hope everything turns out well for Quipper and his wife, as well.

Smile

Smile,

Like you, I kept expecting Quipper to come and straighten this mess out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ....but it seemed like he just continued to make outrageous statements and claims. As kindhearted as he seemed, and as respectfully as he posted....there were some very dangerous messages buried in those seemingly nice words. One of them is that the use of pornography can help treat sexual dysfunction....when in fact....it is more likely to make it worse or cause it... according to majority of sources I found. Another was that wives of men with sexual deviancy can prevent/curb it by giving their husbands more sex or introducing pornography into the marital mix....this is simply untrue (and unproven), since most parapheliacs are not excited by normal sex. Use of pornography will create more victims....not protect women or children (as he implies). I was particularly shocked by his assertion that a poster's husband was not acting criminally by watching the neighbor's teenagers showering....and of course by his refusal to clarify his statements about child molestation....instead focussing on the poor men who "love" children too much. I found a complete disregard for victims of any sexual abuse in his posts.

I tried very hard to help him understand how his statements were inflamatory (as well as erroneous) but I was unsucessful. I hate to see anyone leave the board....but in this case....I am more afraid that a new poster will show up, assume he is right, and follow his advice without the benefit of anyone challenging it. He had every opportunity to defend his position with research, clarify his meaning (if there was a misunderstanding) or even change his mind when confronted with some very good arguments and evidence. I am sad that he didn't do any of those things.

We have a huge responsibility here when we deal with the lives and marriages of people in painful crisis who are looking for help and education in these strategies. At least I believe we do. That is why.....I rarely give my opinion of things...but stick to the concepts I have spent a great deal of time learning and researching....those concepts developed by responsible therapists with proven results for helping marriages. There are lots of psychologists who are quoted here besides Harley....Glass, Davis etc. So it's not just about whether an idea is just different....different is okay....so is out of the mainstream....but I truly believe that the ideas of this poster could be harmful, counter productive to marriage, and unless I misunderstand him....even criminal. That is just not okay....even if he says it nicely.

Quipper wherever you are....may god bless you and your wife. Please know that I wish you the best and I hope you will open your heart and see the pain caused by sexual abuse and exploitation. I know you think this is about my own issues....but this is truly about my desire to help marriages and not my own agenda. My own issues have been dealt with long ago through therapy and healing. Yes perhaps that gives me a perspective that only a victim of sexual abuse can have....but that is not what is at work here. Please talk to your wife about how pornography really makes her feel....it sounds to me like she gives in (uses her giver in these negotiations) because she is afraid of denying you. I sadly suspect that you may not be able to give up your interest in these things and it is harming your marriage. It sounds like your wife must love you very much....but I don't doubt that your interest in pornography is quietly destroying her love for you. Please be careful. Good Luck.

I pretty much agree with what's been written above. Quipper was always respectful but the truth is that he wasn't on board with MB concepts. In fact he often advocated very non-MB "solutions".

I'm writing this on the off chance that Quipper will read it even though he's not allowed to respond.

I think that if a couple have a good marriage and frequent sexual intimacy they may well need to "spice things up in the bedroom" in order to avoid things getting mundane. This may involve exploring sexuality in oral, bondage, role play, dressing up and soft porn (we all have our own ideas of what's acceptable and what's "disgusting"). We're all grown ups here and you don't need details. One of Quippers faults was that he had a tendency to give inappropriate detail.

But actually you almost never see that problem on the MB discussion board. The problem we mostly see is not frequent mundane sex but lack of sexual interest by one partner or the other. The MB answer to that is to look at the relationship as a whole and how you are each meeting each other's ENs. This works as I can personally testify from the impact it's had in my own M.

Quipper suggested "spicing up the bedroom" as a solution to marital problems and this is just nonsense - it doesn't work.

Quipper if you read this get the message. You have disclosed to us that your W is not as interested in sex as you would wish. You advocate the use of porn to make your sex life more exciting and are disappointed that your W doesn't agree. So you are advocating a failed strategy - one that doesn't work. It hasn't worked for you!

Me, and others on this site, are advocating a strategy for improving marriages that does actually work.