Katie,<p>Here it is simply put....I have been here a long time, sometimes feels like forever. Those of us who arent going through the eveyday pain anymore try to stick around for those that are so fresh and raw. <p>You stated that it was "never about the W" you never actually thought of her. I think that shows your blantant disregard for others feelings. Therefore I will not expect you to consider the feelings of those here.<p>Simply put: We are not here for you to learn from. We are not your personal guinea pigs for you to examine, analyze or attempt to interpret. No one here cares that much for the ow's "side", especially one with as much remorse as you. You have nothing to learn from us and we have nothing to learn from you. I am not from the school of "tolerance". I am from the school of Truth. Take it elsewhere. <p>Thanks <p>bw

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Straight and to the point.

BrokenWings,
They do not understand. Not marriage and how it differs from fantasy...or free will and how it destroys every fiber and being in some people who come here.<p>Commandments are commandments.<p>Thou shalt not commit adultry is a commandment.
Our spouses broke that one.<p>Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife. Broke that too.<p>Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods. BROKE THAT TOO.<p>They will never get the word of God until they repent and are SORRY for what happened.<p>Only then will the word come smashing them in the face!!!!<p>Once realized they will settle down and accept the fact that MM love and respect their wives. That's why we get the "name" and social situations. We get the checkbook and all of the accolades of the Mrs.
Then when we stick together and pull through a mess like we're all in, the friends and family around us truly wish us the best and shower us with ADMIRATION not the shame they show for OW or OM. It's the way of God. To let the devil and all of his quick minutes of lusty sin to be put down. One way or the other God wins....not OW or OM or BS or OC....God wins. He blesses all who repent! He watches over the oc's and lets them have a sweet life w/o DAD'S. It's his promise to care for all who follow him.<p>If one is taken down by the OW OM then God WILL PROVIDE!!! It's his promise to his believers!<p>love
Debi<p>[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</p>

well said.

I agree, well said.<p>Twiisty

I just want to add my thoughts. I am a newbie so be kind if you blast me, ok?! <p>I believe that we're all teachers in one way or another. We also are not here to judge anyone. Most of us are here for support. I'm not quite sure what positive things that Katie gets from this board, but she must. <p>I don't think that Katie has ever put anyone down, but she sure makes us think! One thing that I have learned from her is that there are people actually out there like that! She makes me want to continually meet my H's needs knowing that there are people out there who are willing to accept a MM for long term and out for numero uno! People like her scare me! (no offense to you in particular, Katie. Just people with your goals, morals and outlook on life)<p>I know that there is something good that someone here has taught Katie and that she may use to better herself at some point. What goes around comes around and she may reflect back upon this information when her spouse/lover chooses to have an affair on her.<p>Yes, I agree, Katie does not seem remorseful and rather flippant about it all. That is a bit annoying considering the depth of the pain that we all have felt. Isn't it a step in the right direction for her to even *care* where we are coming from? True, that may not be the intentions of this board, so maybe I am out of line.<p>I find it interesting that people are willing to accept BonnieBB (who nobody is really sure WHO she is or where she stands regarding her 'label'...ow or bs with or without oc, 1 or 2?) but don't want someone here who is being honest about who they are. (bonnie, that statement is not a flame at you, just an example of what the majority of people here feel about you).<p>Just so you know, I am not the OW [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Katie, what *do* you get from these boards besides making people feel badly because of your flippant attitude?

Tinlizzy<p>I agree that we are here to learn from each other. I however, have nothing to learn from someone who admitingly has no regard for anyone but herself. I think that basic human compassion is missing in our society and have no problems saying so.<p>I do not want to hurt anyones feelings, but I also will not keep my opinion to myself just for the simple reason that it could offend someone. I personally do not like being watched and questioned just because someone is curious as to what makes us little wifes tick. Katie is not rude or condemning. I will give you that Katie and I appreciate the way you form your questions and responses. As you see, for the most part, it allows you to recieve the answers you are searching for.<p>The problem I have is that one of the newbies told me that she no longer felt safe here. She didnt like what was going on. It made her uncomfortable as it was not what this forum promises to be about and that is us and our marriages.<p>People tend to forget the name of this site is MARRIAGE BUILDERS. Not "come and lets all get along and learn from each other". Personally I do not think I have anything that I would want to learn from an ow. Nothing. I do not care how they work or what they think. Why? Because if my H ever falls prey of anyone from the School of TOWs then (and Bonnie you should appreciate this) he is gone. No more marriage building. He has had his one get out of jail almost free card. That is it. If he can see the hurt I have been through and then risk doing it to me again then I have no need for him.<p>And I must say, not too many "accepted" Bonnie well here. But if Bonnie states her opinions in a lady-like fashion as I have seen lately then she will be answered in the same way. It is all in your presentation. <p>I am not "bashing" Katie. I am just letting her know that some do not want to participate in her why stay with him study. Some have better things to do like work on their marriage, as this forum has been set up to do.<p>With Love<p>Bw

Ps,<p>Just read your question about dont you want to ask ow a few questions?? <p>Um, why? Like I stated before.<p>But I will say that if I did, I would go and ask them. I do not like them forcing themselves on me .......AGAIN.

I understand that there are those among you who don't like me, don't want me here or are not comfortable with my presence.<p>I will say that I greatly appreciate the love and understanding that I have been shown here. MY mother was DEEPLY wounded my by father's affair(s) and to this day has never spoken of them. As a child they were always a mystery to me. As was marriage.<p>Honestly I have walked around thinking the decision to marry was no more significant than the decision of "paper or plastic."<p>The last 4 men that I have dated (NOT including MM) have wanted to marry. It seemed like a nice idea, but I couldn't understand why I would want to marry since I already own my own home and I already have a child.<p>I am deeply touched by the depth of emotion shown here toward spouses. Espically wayward ones. It's a love the I have never seen and can only begin to understand.<p>I am dating a very nice single man who tells me that he thinks that I am his soulmate. Honest to God i'm looking at this guy like he has 3 heads. I have ZERO idea what he is talking about. I have lived in the land of being TOW for so long that the idea of commitment, one on one, etc seems very strange to me.<p>PLUS I am a big city business woman. My morals match those of everyone around me. And in MANY cases are FAR better. At least I have regard for my child, don't miss birthdays and spend time with him.<p>I didn't want to hurt anybody here or make you guys feel like guinea pigs, but there is a lot that you have to teach and I think in some cases you don't even know it.<p>I know that I have learned a ton!<p>[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Katie Scarlett ]</p>

Katie,<p>I must say...how sad. Something must have really effected you greatly for you to not know how to love. Maybe you should talk to your mother and get some of these unanswered questions answered.<p>Could it be because of your father's affair and your mother's pain you do not trust men? Therefore you see true committment as setting yourself up and just plain stupid? <p>As far as learning from ow....well, I have talked to my x-ow and at great length. She claims she dated MM because when they left her it was nothing personal. It was nothing that she had done to drive them off, it was they were already committed to the stupid wife that would take them back. Although somewhere along the line she fell for my H and when he said he couldnt leave me and our new daughter she came up with a plan. As you probably know, it didnt work out so well for her right away.<p>I still learn from ow. I learn God does answer prayers even if its not how or when you thought He would. When ow was left she turned to God and she allowed Him to turn her life around. She now has a christian H and he is adopting both of her "fatherless" children. Praise God.<p>You have been respectful here and I appreciate that. Like I stated earlier even with the most respectful ways to say things there are some wounds, especially the new ones, that do not need salt rubbed into them.<p>Love<p>bw

BW,
I hear what you are saying and I thank you for your kind relpy.

broken_wings<p>I just wanted to stop by and commend you on your excellent handling of this situation with Katie Scarlett and appreciate how you both interacted with one naother. I think she has come to a better understanding of what this is all about and you clearly made your very valid point without any disrespectful judgments.
This forum is not the appropriate place for OW's and they should respectfully leave and create their own safe haven. However, that being said we do have a couple OW's who are aligned with us and have been welcomed by us throughout the years i.e. Obratti and one other whose name escapes me at the moment.<p>At any rate, I completely agree with you and appreciate your ability to diplomatically express what many of us here feel about 'learning from the OW'. <p>Thanks<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,
So that you know. I never meant any harm to anyone here. And have been greatly appreciative for the kind responses.