OW and OC live in another country. OW threatens H to see OC that thinks her daddy is dead (she's 3 and speaks little English). OW can't and won't come here to our house with OC so how should we handle visitation, if and when it ever becomes an issue? I made it clear that I would not feel comfortable with him going alone, but he runs with the excuse that we can't afford more than 1 plane ticket. This makes me look like the bad guy - "the reason why daddy can't come see you." So far, we've just been avoiding the issue, but the way he decides to handle this will give me insight into alot. <p>MIL's house was an idea, but I'd still require to be there. Not demanding too much am I?

strwbryncrm,you are not asking too much at all. Perhaps C can fly to your home for a visit.<p>No way would H be able to go w/o me.
It would mean a "seperate" life again to me.<p>I hope you're in counseling w/a good counselor who can come up w/suggestions.<p>Prayers to you.<p>love
Debi

You guys are my "counselor". Thank you.

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Strawberry,
I don't have much time right now but we are also VERY far from XOW/OC and my H is very clear on the fact he cannot have any secret life like that after breaking his marriage vows. He has explicitly promised not to go anywhere near the XOW/OC alone, period. Our OC is also 3 and has never seen "dad" though we send gifts. Either the OC will have to be escorted to us by her mother or I when she is old enough to leave mom (I don't think any 3yo would be happy about leaving home to go stay with strangers... give it another 4 years or so)... or else H and I will go visit OC TOGETHER, or I would consider it if his mother wanted to go with him, as she has 100% supported our marriage. I don't buy that sht about 'we can't afford another ticket'. Maybe you can't and we can't either, but that is the ONLY way OC can see H. End of story!<p>Hope that helps.
Prayers for recovery,
Jenny

Please listen to Jenny and Gem...they certainly know from what they speak.<p>In addition to being in complete agreement with these two Oldtimers, I just want to add that it is imperative that you do not allow your husband to manipulate you into thinking that this is somehow your fault or that your should feel guilty about something you had absolutely nothing to do with, absolutely no choice in the matter from the beginning and that he is absolutely ridiculous to even try to twist things around to make you feel responsible or to feel like the 'bad guy' here. It is outrageous and preposterous. This is HIS problem and he should acquiesce to YOUR wishes on how this should be handled and he should thank God you have opted to stay with him after all he has done to you and your marriage and to your family.<p>I love it when these men bring the ultimate heartache and sorrow into our lives and then try to bully us into making us responsible for their not being able to see their OC.<p>If I were you, I would be highly suspicious of his desire to travel without you...I would wonder if he desires to continue a double life and jerk you around in the process.<p>The Harley Principles are truly inspired by the Divine. These policies and procedures to restore, rebuild and heal a marriage are extremely effective if they are practiced. Please study everything written by Harley to jump start your healing process and not leave yourself wide open for mind numbing games that are so easy to get sucked into when we are in such devastating pain from discovery.<p>Take care of yourself and stick with the program and follow Jenny and Gem's advice...it's just good common sense.<p>Catnip =^^=

Thank you so much for the advice guys. It's greatly appreciated. I had been wrestling with this foe a long time. <p>I must clear some things up though. My h is not the one saying that it's my fault in any way. As a matter of fact, I think the shame and embarrassment is his real reason for not going and he uses the finances as the reason to the OW. He knows that I would never satnd in his way, as long as my respect is not compromised. <p>When we get outrageous phone bills for calls made overseas, I suggest getting a calling plan to lower the costs. He doesn't follow through. I suggest making more regular calls to OC, he doesn't. I suggest saving money to buy gifts on X-mas and b-day and sending them on time, he doesn't. His excuse is it costs too much to send it. As we speak, we have toys from her b-day (July) that are catching up with x-mas presents. He says he wants to be a father (even though he begged her to abort) and I support him in that, but when he breaks his promises because he doesn't want to hurt me, I get confused and irritated and if that's what he tells the OW, he's just setting her up to resent me (more). He leaves room for her to call and b****, and I tell him she'd shut up if he'd stop making promises he can't keep. If you're confused, read my bio. Sorry for rambling.

Would you guys mind if I printed this and showed it to him?

Hell, no. Print it up.<p>Catnip =^^=

strawberry,
Your description of H sounds like the type that is passive-aggressive; my H falls into this type and he hated learning it but admits it's true and tries now to overcome it when he can. You can read about types at www.affair-help.com (or affairs-help, I forget). You can take the quiz to find his type of affair. <p>If you think about it, you will see that your H not only is this way about OC phone calls and gifts (I can totally relate), but he is like this about anything he's deeply uncomfortable about in life, including the idea that he probably had the affair because he was mad at you about something at the time and couldn't address the issue directly with you. Instead, he took it out another avenue... At least, this is part of my H's psychology. I'm not saying he blames me, because he never has! It was his own inability to direct his problem with me to ME.<p>The fact our Hs are basically good men and the pain of the OC is a constant blot on their conscience only aggrevates their guilt, shame, and passive-aggressive way of dealing with OC.<p>I gotta run.
Best wishes for your recovery.
Jenny

Jenny, I checked out the site (affairs-help) and from the description, he sounds like he fits in that category. But what more can I do? Just be here for him I guess. It's so unfair though. If I have to be strong for him and the kids, who do I turn to? So hard. <p>I feel so sorry for him. My pain is real, but he told me something that made me truly understand his pain. He said he doesn't want to be like his dad and run from his responsibility. It's true when they say affairs are hereditary. I was there when his mom found out about her h's oc (the 2nd to a different ow), born 8 yrs earlier. They have no contact with either xow/oc and life for them seems to work. But then again, he had been denying paternity for years after that. My h never denied his. Anyway, my h said one of his greatest fears, next to losing me, was getting a phone call from oc with her cursing him out and telling him how much she hates him. I didn't know what to say, so I said nothing. This is a man who would not shed a tear even if you shot him in his "jewels", but I could have sworn I felt some tears on my shoulder. How can I hate and love someone at the same time? I don't know, but I did at that instance. I thought to myself, I hope that day never happens, but if it does you deserve it. That's what you get, I thought. He can't control what ow tells oc about him, especially if she still hates him, but not following through on promises he makes to oc will do the job just as well. <p>I'm not saying anything more to him. He can never say, I wasn't there for him, I stood in his way, it's all my fault. This is a road he has to go down alone. I've done all I can possibly do.<p>Oh, and I've decided not to show this to him just yet. I printed it, but keep it in a safe place to look at every now and then. Visitation, if it ever becomes an issue, is not an issue now, so like a friend of mine says, why worry about something that hasn't happened yet? I definitely will not let him go alone. If ow's real reason for him coming is only to see oc, and she's moved on with her life like she says, than she should not mind if I'm there. If everyone's true goal is to do what's right for the child, than so be it. All selfishness will have to be put aside where that's concerned. <p>Thanks again my "counselors" [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]