<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>When the spouse remains in the marriage, the marriage deals with a "scorned" person, another set of dynamics. How I remember the pain of grappling with what I could accept, the guilt over not wanting to be a part of the OC, yet thinking about her innocense, questioning what my husband really want, trying to figure out how all this would impact our children, etc. The OW, in our situation, wanted to continue being involved in my h's life in any way she could - it just all became too complicated, as the issues around the OW and OC were consuming us. It had to stop if we were to move ahead as an intact family <hr></blockquote><p>These are some of the very reasons why we chose no contact. I read your posts with interest Math, as I have four children at home to raise also. <p>I am interested to hear more from you and take great comfort that there can be a life after an affair. I would love to read more of your healing process and whatever else you would like to share.<p>Hugs,
Twiisty

Visitation... in my situation, I have little control over it.<p>I am the BS (husband) and my W is the WS. DDay was 02/1999 and she and I have been on this rollercoaster for sometime now. Everything, well nearly, aside, she came home to me 10/1991. Within hours/days or a week we had SF. She says she was already pregnant at the time of her coming home, but there is a fine line in the time line looking back. <p>Needless to say, there was police activity involved later in that following December where the OM assaulted my W on two seperate occasions. Pictures were taken of the bruises and presented them to the DA. The OM was sentenced to a year in jail. <p>Anyhow, 7 months later, after his arrest the baby was born. During that 7 months, she and I agreed to raise the baby as we have our other 4 boys. No matter whose the baby was, he was mine in my heart and that is WHAT I accepted. There were some brief discussions of termination, and we did contact an adoption agency and had the baby ready for adoption, UP until the day he was born and I looked into his eyes and begged her not to give the baby up, for her, for me, and for our other boys. The family was very crushed, but to me it just didn't seem right that this child should have to suffer the life with a couple not his own because of a 'maybe' its the OM's. Knowing whom my wife is and how she would have handled the adoption, it was truely best that she not end up dead at her own hands, for losing one of her children and leaving the four boys without a mother.<p>Well, times changed and post partum depression was nearing its end and she wanted to take the baby to the jail and introduce the baby to the OM. There was a Protective Order put in place when he was CONVICTED, to 400 feet and 2 years, to keep him away from my W. Well, I had NO say so in her taking the baby while I was at work down to the Jail for a visit. All this while, I was in a very UNSTRUCTURED Plan A. I failed at it miserably.<p>Months went by and the OM got out of jail and the EA/PA started again in 01/2001. She eventually packed up left again in 04/2001. The OM moved with her in 06/2001 and she kicked him out 09/2001. I relocated to her city and moved back in with her in 09/2001 and the OM lives 2 houses down from us. Less than 75 feet away is his bedroom. Everyday, my W either picks the baby up and walks him 2 doors down for visitation or the OM will come here, to the living room. As for the EA/PA, I don't know anymore. She and I seem to be doing really good and we are fulfilling alot of each others needs.<p>There is alot of other things that play into all of this, but I've only given you a small portion of where we are at. I'm currently a SAHD, unemployed, seeking work again in Law Enforcement. My W is working. Our lease is up, as we reside with her sister, her sister is staying and my wife has gotten her own place. She signed the lease for 1 year and included 2 adults and 5 children on the lease. Now the OM and I sit and wait and see whom the second adult is going to be.<p>I have 2 certified copies of the baby's birth certificate which names me as the father. The OM has yet to contest the paternity of the baby and his time to do so expired a long time ago.<p>I'm very close to moving on with my life and my children. I can get a RO very cheap to keep the OM away from me and my boys. My wife and I are still in Plan A and I am not taking or moving the boys away from her. <p>I reside in the state of Texas and after speaking to the SAG in reguards to my situation, the OM doesn't have a chance to gain custody, visitation, or rights to the baby, especially with the OM's current state of past due CS to his other two children. The SAG was very helpful, but now I must decide what to do. <p>I am not quite yet ready for Plan B at this time. I am worried about what the back and forth between our family and the OM is going to have on the baby. The SAG mentioned some facts/statistics and they were very discerning. The affects of this on all the boys, my wife, me and the baby are taking their toll. <p>What suggestions do any of you have.

My h didnt want visitation b/c of how hurt he thought it would make me and it would have at first. We didnt see oc until she turned 18 months. Here is how things went until now and she is 4 now:
1. When we first started getting her, ow would call my house constantly
2. We were supposed to pick oc up when she turned about 2, but b/c ow didnt call and thought the world should stop for her, we left our home and didnt wait for oc to arrive, which resulted in:
-her coming over the following Monday and leaving oc on the front curb
- she then came right back to get her and then 5 min. later rings our bell with oc standing in front of our door, we call police and technically didnt have to give her back until a court hearing (if that was what we wanted)
- she begged and pleaded and we returned oc<p>3. She would have oc call me and say my name and hang up once she had her do it 43 times<p>4. We did visits here and there and it was hell, until, my h filed for visitation so now the sht has ceased somewhat<p>5. Funny thing is now she calls me mommie and oc tells me that my mommie say you not my mommie. I said I am your mommie when you are here but call me what you like, I love you.<p>6. Her mom now dresses her like a bum and has her hair all over the place when we pick her up. That is to aggravate me, her hair is usually tangled and I just try to brush it back without hurting oc. It is ashame. So we still have to get clothes for our house, isnt that a btch<p>We could have thought about not visiting with her in which we have several times, but oc has now grown on all of our hearts. We think ow scolds her when she talks about us, because she is very quiet when we are in front of ow's house.
I guess you select what is best for you, it was and still is hard for me, but if I come to the point where enough is enough I guess we will deal with that when it comes.
Unicorn

Unicorn,<p>I have a question for you. What do you think it is doing emotionally for that child to love you all the while her mother probably chastising her for loving you?<p>Do you think it's healthy for her to have to consciously choose not to show her bio-mom her love for you and your family?<p>What do you think the long term affects will be on her relationship with trust? She can't even trust her mother enough to show her real feelings.<p>I often ponder a child feeling torn because of selfish OW who fill children's heads with doubts and fears.<p>Interested in hearing your thoughts.<p>Z.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by math123:
<strong>I was so thankful I "ran" into the one I did when I was devastated.
.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Isn't it amazing how God continues to put 'angels' in our midst when we need them the most...and pre-computer age, too. However did you manage to get through, and thrive and recover back then without this kind of connection? You must have felt completely alone in your sorrow and misery because in the big scope of things, this is not a common occurance. It seems like there are a lot of us here but we all found this place via Divine Intervention and we are from all over the country, all over the world. Spread us out and we are few in this unique situation.<p>Thanks for coming here and showing us all a preview of what can be ours in a couple decades.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<p>Are there any men here in my situation that I could correspond with?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zebrababy:
<strong>Unicorn,<p>I have a question for you. What do you think it is doing emotionally for that child to love you all the while her mother probably chastising her for loving you?<p>Do you think it's healthy for her to have to consciously choose not to show her bio-mom her love for you and your family?<p>What do you think the long term affects will be on her relationship with trust? She can't even trust her mother enough to show her real feelings.<p>I often ponder a child feeling torn because of selfish OW who fill children's heads with doubts and fears.<p>Interested in hearing your thoughts.<p>Z.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Good Question,
I really do get upset at the fact that she is so torn and so confused and I am sure she gets scolded for saying anything that concerns me or my family for that matter. You know to be honest I told my h that I wouldnt allow oc to call me by first name in the very beginning. But b/c she tells me how her mom is when she says my name and how she looks when she tells me things, I told h that I dont care what she calls me I want her to feel comfortable. Many attempts have been made on my part to contact ow to try and at least not have her daughter feel it was her fault that she loves daddy and other mommie, sister and brother. Now she doesnt want to go home at all when its time to take her home. No, I dont think it is healthy, but I dont know what to do! Her mom doesnt give any thoughts about her child, she is too busy trying to make moves on my h. And emotionally, she is messed up and again I guess I just try to be there emotionally for her while she is in our care. I know I am rambling but it is quite hard for me sometimes.
Unicorn

Husband 2 you<p>There is K and Paul Moyers and Bystander and Worsehalf and Pops and a few others who's names escape me right now. They don't post as often as we would like them to but do pop in now and then. Just a couple weeks ago, Worsehalf and Pops were posting rather frequently...I don't know where they went, but maybe there was just too much estrogen for them to deal with here.<p>Keep lurking and posting, Husband. They'll show up eventually. BTW...are things getting any better for you?<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Husband2you:
[QB]
1. Now the OM and I sit and wait and see whom the second adult is going to be.<p>2. I have 2 certified copies of the baby's birth certificate which names me as the father. The OM has yet to contest the paternity of the baby and his time to do so expired a long time ago.<p>3. I'm very close to moving on with my life and my children. I can get a RO very cheap to keep the OM away from me and my boys. My wife and I are still in Plan A and I am not taking or moving the boys away from her. <p>4. I am not quite yet ready for Plan B at this time. I am worried about what the back and forth between our family and the OM is going to have on the baby. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Dear H2Y<p>1. I read your story and it makes me sick you are going through this. I think I would rather eat ground glass than allow my spouse the luxury of determining my future on a whim while I sit and wait. Personally, I think it is time for a strong Plan B and boundaries simply to protect your heart and soul and give you a measure of power so you can begin healing yourself...with or without her.<p>2. This is good, H2Y. You get to call the shots, and of course, you are named as the father on the birth certificate, right? Is the OM even remotely interested in the OC or is he just a drama queen/king having fun interfering in your lives?<p>3. I am glad you are in a good solid Plan A, but if you read the Harley Principles, you'll know that being in Plan A for a couple of years is not healthy for you...or heer! Someone has to make the first move to change things or you can go on spinning your wheels like this indefinitely. I suggest enforcing some very real boundaries and implementing Plan B. Oh, she'll squawk at first, threaten and even act like shy's all done with you, but that's probably just to manipulate and control you and the situation. Are you afraid to go into Plan B because it might drive her back to the OM? That is a risk that all of us have to take when we commit ourselves to Plan B. Do you think she is still involved with OM (it does sound like it)? Is OM interested in her or is he just a loser with no integrity and honor?<p>4. You will know when the time is right, H2Y. When you absolutely cannot stand it one more minute, you will act. In the meantime, pray and we will pray for you here, post here often and stay strong, think clearly and don't let anyone call the shots that impact your life. Good luck and God bless.<p>Catnip =^^=

I have not posted in awhile as I really have not had much to share. Things with my H and I and the situation we are now in have been quiet, because of the holidays, but I have heard from our lawyer and the ball will be rolling again soon after the new year. Visitation for my family and I has been a rough and tough road. The most recent events have left us all numb, the ow has accused my h of hitting the oc, a lie, a bruise caused by a minor fall in our yard has lead to my h arrest and much finicial expense to our family. <p>I was always for visitation and the sharing of our lives with the oc. I wanted my 2 children to know their sibling. We, my h and I wanted to give the oc similiar things out of life that our children were getting. The oc's mother is lazy and the oc does not get the usual fun acitivies that a child should have. Wow did we get kicked in the teeth. I will give you all an update when I have one. But my one thought on visitation now is Be careful. Peace to all Gabi1116

i would like to express some views on this visitation subject. and i realize that every solution will be different for each individual case. one thing to keep in mind for anyone who is considering visitation is that you should refrain from allowing the oc from hearing you or your spouse make any sort of negative comments about other parent. this will only tend to drive oc away from your house and into op's life at full speed causing bad feelings between you and him. and i do realize that this is not a game to be played with or for oc's emotions. my oldest son was conceived about 3 months prior to my meeting fh. when his mother told me she was pregnant i said we were finished as i knew her pregnancy was an effort to trap me into marrying her. at first i told her i thought it best for her to move on, marry and let him know one dad. she tried this for about 1-1/2 years but her relationship with my best friend failed. then she decided i was going to pay for leaving her. so she sued me for cs. i paid my cs and took my visitation as she thought it bst for him to know his real dad. i was young and obliged her. my sons mother was a real piece of work as taking my visitation only made her very angry since i was dating fh. she was intent on getting me back. she would disappear conviently many times when i was supposed to pick him up for visits. she would have her friends and relatives (my son's cousins, aunts, & uncle's) there when i dropped him off all ready to make me pay physically necessatating me to drop him off with a sheriff's escort. she would come over to me and fh at his little league and football games and just stand there sceaming at us in front of all to hear. through all of this fh and myself never allowed him to hear us bad mouth either his mother or her friends. we simply told my son that they were just in a bad mood and their temoers were running short on those days. fh stood buy me and she was willing to accept me along with him through all of that. anyway as he grew older he came to realize that we just continually loved him and that his mother had been bitter for many years. today we have an excellent relationship and he loves both us dearly and i would not change a thing.<p>point being if you decide to try visitation make sure you are ready for all that goes with it and that you are ready to stick it out for the long haul. it can be very trying at times. this is not to say that all ow or om are [censored]. some are really quite reasonable though they are few and far between. these are just my personal experiences.

Thank you so very much Math123. You have me in tears of relief and joy. You have said what me and my husband needed to hear. Personally here is a BIG HUGS AND KISSES OF THANKS.<p>We have decided that for us it would be better no contact with the OC, we did not want to open a can a worms. The intent of the OW was to attach herself to my husband and create mayhem. To try to deal with the OW at this mind stage is undue preasure on us and the OC. It was hard enough for us to deal with the A. At this point we just settled in court our support payments and on our way to making our relationship the best ever, you right somethings are much better than ever and some wounds are still sore. We understand once the OC is old enough she may look for us and we will be ready by then and honestly expecting a visit or call. But for now we are working on us our family. <p>Once again thank you so very much for your words and I am sorry you did have any outlets, but I am very glad you are here with all of us today.<p>VERY GRATEFUL!! Simply sad. I think now would be a change for my login name. I let all of you know as soon as I can figure out how I feel now. Still a bit sad but getting stronger. THANKS TO YOU ALL.