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...I still need help. I need to vent and I need advice. Please bear with me. <p>Yesterday started off really well. I was proud of my h and myself. The kids had a wonderful Christmas morning, but I knew the dreaded phone call would need to be made. And it didn't help that my h wasn't looking forward to making it either. We recently agreed that whenever he needed to make phone calls, he would do it in my presence. He did in the past, but when the topics strayed off track ie the past, old friends, our personal life, anything non-OC-related, I'd request that it abruptly end. This made him and OW uncomfortable, (boo-hoo) so for everyone's sake, HE thought it would be best he hid the phone calls from me. Same thing with email messages. I told him that it was a big LB to do this and he understood, but reminds me that everytime he tries to have the conversations around me, I blow up. DUH?! I do because they, (mostly she without him informing her) push the limits. I don't want to act like I'm on phone patrol, but they should have enough common sense to know better. I guess that's asking alot for people who started all this in the first place. They never cared about my feelings before, so why should they start now? He's so quick to point out to me how much she hates me. Big LB! Anyway, I asked to be there when he made the phone call, which thankfully, he obliged. Around midday, he decided to make the phone call. He was on the phone with his mom (who wanted to talk too) and they called three-way. ALthough I asked to be there, I left the room. I went upstairs and listened in on the extension. Later on, he said he knew I did. The conversation was pretty generic. "Merry Christmas. What did you get? How's the weather?" All that. His mom is a character though. The OC who is 3, was ecstatic to hear from her dad, which broke my heart, but filled me with joy simultaneously. Like I mentioned earlier, OC/OW live in another country and visitation is a long shot, but possible. His mom knows how difficult it is, but to seem like the devil's advocate, she seemed to be making her son look like a low-life for not making more of an effort. If he had the nerve to tell her that he couldn't because of finances or my feelings or even his shame, she'd make it seem like, if you love your daughter so much you'd do whatever it takes. I agree, but I'm here too. She has nothing to lose. Her feelings aren't being trampled on. She has no idea what we are going through and to sit there and say things like that 1) in front of OW, 2) against her own son and 3) knowing I'm not there is amazing. I know relationships with mil's are difficult, but she takes it to another level. Looking at us, you'd NEVER know it, but for h's sake, I guess we put our masks on. Of course when I think of it, I wonder why am I worrying about it so much? It's no big deal. But my heart tells me it is, even when I want to downplay it. Personally, I don't think my mil wants me with her son. I've made mistakes in the past as well. No one is perfect, but her son and I are trying to work everything out. I hate how everyone is saying they want what's best for the child but not afraid to hurt one another in the process. I want what's best for her too, but my loyalty is to me and mine first. Am I an evil witch for that? I just have so much on my mind right now. He says I crowd him. We argued for a couple of hours on and off and he swears it's because of the phone call. I tell him it's more than that. <p>His lack of action says alot too. Someone labeled him as a conflict-avoider and after doing some research, I believe it's a good conclusion to draw. I would like to suggest to him that we (him, me and OW) all sit down on the phone and discuss what's going to be. Because he is the one in the middle, I am willing to accept the fact that he must have the final word, but only after he has taken everyone's feelings into consideration. Someone is going to be upset. There's no doubt about that. But he needs to learn firmness. Not just with her, but with me too. Once the guidleines are set in stone, all that needs to be done is to follow through on them. Yes, we also need flexibility. Respect is the key here and if he has these secret conversations with her, that gives her the wrong message. Not divorcing me is not enough to make an obsessed woman like herself understand that I'm here to stay. He wasn't divorced when he slept with her. But knowing I'm within ear's reach and involved in everything says alot more. Once that's established, she won't have to worry about mixed messages. He won't have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes. And I won't have to worry about him having an EA.<p>I know this is alot. I apologize for rambling. But I have no one else. Even if no one reads this or responds, just putting it down helps alot.<p>I pray daily, not for a solution, but for the strength to go on. I'm still here so I know my prayers are being answered. Thanks for being there everyone, and I'll keep you updated.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Strwbryncrm,<p>I'm glad you were able to come here and vent. I don't have any advice right now. I just wanted you to know someone was listening and has you in their thoughts and prayers. Good Luck.<p>Unsure<p>P.S. I can understand your feelings towards your MIL she's over stepping her boundaries. She should think about your feelings before opening her mouth.
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Hi! We are not in the same situation but there are similarities. We live near exOW and OC and we have visitation.<p>However, my h is also a conflict avoider. Was this affair short? I read on another site that is one sign of conflict avoidance. They were also "friends" before all this started. She was not a mutual friend however.<p>Anyway, I would also have a difficult time if my H had conversations of any kind that didnt strictly deal with the child. Due to h conflict avoidance, h would just not return calls or say he had to go when the conversations drifted. My h made sure he was doing what I needed not what she needed.<p>I dont think it is too much of you to ask that h make those phone calls with you listening in every time if necessary. And as for you "crowding" him...I think he crowded himself by being involved with two women. He needs to deal with it!<p>Have you been to counseling at all? Have you tried writing your h a letter about how and why you feel as you do? I am thinking maybe a neutral party (i.e. counselor) or a letter may help him see your point of view. My h often only gets it when I write a letter.<p>Keep venting here so you dont LB in frustration. I, for one, am very guilty of that.
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strawberry,<p>something you said caught my eye. You said the 3 of you could sit down and hash it out by phone. In my humble opinion and from what I've read in nearly 3 years on this board, PLEASE don't do that. If you and H fight with each other in front of XOW, so to speak, you'll be even more miserable, esp. if XOW and H end up siding with each other against YOU on anything!!!!<p>If your H is the conflict avoider you describe, he's not likely to want to take a stand against the XOW. He wants to "play nice" and act like the good guy without offending her or you... That's the attitude that got you all in this mess to begin with! Conflict avoiding is a problem all in itself!!!! If would be good if he could recognize this problem and try to change (a lot to ask, I know!)<p>If you and H need help hashing it out between you, do it with a professional counselor, or even some neutral friend... anything but the XOW!! You could call the Harleys for counseling by phone--many people like them. Once the two of you can come to a mutually satisfying Policy of Joint Agreement (read about on this site), THEN, you and H can lay out your boundaries for XOW and/or ask what her expectations are. <p>It's really important to this situation that you and your H look like and are a TEAM to the XOW. If he and XOW are allowed to continue any kind of normal relationship, then she is part of a triangle that continues to drain energy away from your marriage. As our counselor put it, once that corner of the triangle is cut, the energy flows into the marriage.<p>Hope that helps, J 3+years recovery
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's really important to this situation that you and your H look like and are a TEAM to the XOW. If he and XOW are allowed to continue any kind of normal relationship, then she is part of a triangle that continues to drain energy away from your marriage. As our counselor put it, once that corner of the triangle is cut, the energy flows into the marriage.<hr></blockquote><p>Listen to Jenny....We tried to hash it out over the phone and ow was outraged with me. It just caused all kind of emotional baggage as she told me H came to her because he wasn't gettin it at home! A lot more was said but I can tell you it wasn't nice. Between any of us.<p>Don't do it sweetie. Save yourself the aggravation.<p>love Debi
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Thanks for the uplifting words of encouragement.<p>You're right, mil should take my feelings into consideration before saying anything, but she too is a conflict avoider, big time. That's where her son got it I guess. I prayed long and hard wondering if I should let my feelings be known to her, believing that I am in the rightand that it would encourage her to make some adjustments. But after praying, I realized it may not be such a good idea. Past experiences showed me that, yes, I'd make my feelings known, but change would not come. If it did, it would be a change for the worse. And for my h's sake I don't need to do that. My main concern needs to be to my God, my self, my children and my marriage-in that order. Everything and everyone else is an afterthought. <p>I never thought about how the OW would act in the situation I suggested. Yes, she is capable of that behavior. On the phone though, she sounded very calm and together. Like someone we might be able to rationalize with. But then I thought again- mil was on the phone and she'll try to be the poster child for "wonderful woman". And me lashing out at mil would do the opposite. The games these OW's play never stop amazing me. <p>I asked my h a while back what is was that he expected and wanted from me, and his response was so simple, I almost didn't believe him. He said "Just love me." Powerful words. I never stopped loving him. His Love Bank was in the red a couple times, but I never closed the account. Please pray for me folks. Only God knows.
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Dear Strawberry,<p>I have just read your post, and I am amazed at your tolerance and patience. My husband has not seen the OW in 10 years, and I can't imagine what I will do when he is begins to speak with her on a regular basis about the OC(which will begin soon because of the recent results of the paternity test.)<p>I think you are absolutely correct to put your children and marriage before the OC. The OW has the responsibility of making the OC her priority, you are absolutely correct in trying to protect yourself, your children, and ultimately your marriage.<p>I wonder if our husbands understand how blessed they are to be loved so deeply by us that we have chosen to stay with them in spite the most incredible pain?! Your husband is a lucky man, and your MIL should be thanking God that her son is loved so much. As a mother, that is the prayer I have for my children. That their spouse would love them "till death do us part."<p>You keep voicing your concerns to your husband. He needs to know that this situation is very difficult, and that he should do whatever is in his power to make it easier for you.<p>I'll be thinking of you.
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