I was just reading another topic, and forgiveness was stressed as part of the healing. I totally agree with the need to forgive, and sometimes I even think I am there...but then I blurt out some insensitive remark to my H just to remind him of his A or I get angry that he isn't doing exactly what I need to be reassured at a given moment.<p>I think it was heavenly that mentioned the appeal of being the victim, and the constant payback you feel you're owed. Honestly, that is what I am fighting now. My H suggested renewing our wedding vows, and he even began researching places which provide renewal ceremonies. His research hit a snag because of 9/11 event, then money being tight because of Christmas and so on. He basically got sidetracked and didn't conclude anything, so I began to research. He has not been enthusiastic about my suggestions (for very logical reasons...like cost.) I, however, seem to feel that he should be willing to do anything and pay any cost to help heal our relationship. I realize I am not being realistic, nor am I being fair. He is just trying to find something feasible, but I want him to say yes to everything I suggest. NOT COOL, I KNOW. I have got to get out of this victim mode. <p>He also tells me he feels like he is being tried over and over again for this mistake. He says to imagine the worst, most humiliating, shameful thing I have ever done, and then imagine being repeatedly asked to relive it, talk about, and examine it. He says it makes him feel so small, and that it makes him physically sick to think about what he did, much less talk about it.<p>Okay, instead of being sensitive to his feelings and realizing the incredible guilt he is suffering, I tend to think "Oh, you think you feel bad, humiliated, ashamed, and physically sick...well honey you can't even imagine the extent of those same feelings for me on top of feeling betrayed, violated, not respected, insecure, and unloved. <p>I know I have got to release him from this and forgive him. I simply don't know how, short of prayer. I STILL LOVE HIM WITH ALL OF MY HEART, but I don't know how to recognize true forgiveness. <p>Once again, I am long winded. Just give me some idea of the amount of time it took you all to come to a place of true forgiveness, could you?<p>Thanks for listening.

Posey,
Remind me when D-day was for you? It has been over a year for me, but I still have my bad days. I also was touched by the post about forgiveness.<p>I am unsure if I have totally forgiven my h. I know I have mostly forgiven him and I have cut way back on lb about the situation. <p>I have heard many suggestions. Jenny gave one about having a ceremony of sorts where you burn representatives of your pain, things you want to get rid of about you, your relationship, your h. But once this is done, you must move on emotionally and mentally.<p>Others have suggested a night that is totally devoted to questions, honest answers, etc. But again, you must agree that it is the last night like this.<p>You may also wish to write your h a letter telling him that you know you are hurting him and you dont intentionally do so, but you need his help.<p>I cannot tell you how long it will take for you to move past the feelings you are having. I can only say that the frequency and intensity will lessen with time.<p>As for the renewal of vows, you both need to sit down and decide what the ultimate purpose of the ceremony will be. It needs to be what you both want from it emotionally and spiritually...not monetarily and physically (location).<p>Hang in there...it gets better.<p>[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: tryin4sainthood ]</p>

Posey,<p>I like you used to love throwing the affir in my H face. I wanted him to feel the pain I felt. I found out exOW slept with two other guys we know while she was sleeping with him I threw that in his face. I finally realized I was getting disgusted with the person I loved. I made a decsion to give him a second chance I couldn't move forward until I forgave him.<p>I wrote my H a letter/poem telling him all the things bothering me and I titled it "Letting it go". After I vented I told him none of the above things mattered anymore and I was letting them go. It was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I started to forgive him, he listened with an open mind and heard things that he didn't want to hear but it allowed me one last vent. I was allowed to throw everything in his face one last time. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am 15 months past D-Day and it's still hard not to throw her antics in his face, it was hard to seperate her antics from him it was like you got me in this situation so it's your fault too. I get disgusted that he slept with someone like her, 4 kids 3 fathers none of them in her/the kids lives and she's A known easy lay. But I hold it in and ignore those feelings it's hard while I'm PMS'ing but I vent here or with my sister.<p>You are a strong woman if you really want it you can do it. I know it's hard I still battle with wanting to inflict pain on him. Good luck! I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.<p>
Unsure

posey,
please read my (link to) thoughts for newbies... honestly I think it's too early for your forgiveness; you need a safe place to vent and work this through. Your H knew for years, condemned himself for years, so he can't handle more, but you are in a different place and need his sorrow and reassurance.<p>Again, please read my link. There is stuff just about forgiveness, not just from me.<p>Prayers,
J<p>[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

I am in a weird mood right now, but just wanted to let you know that i am right where you are - feeling unloved and needy of simple things they could do to help us get through this... It could even be a simple, "i love you and am so grateful that we are together...". Our h's want to forget it all and not bring it up, but WE need continual love and a sense of security about the whole matter...<p>At any given moment during the day, i think to myself, why isn't h showing me how appreciative he is of me... I then pick a fight with him telling him that he doesn't even care how i am feeling, but i forget he doesn't read minds! But for me, i REALLY need a daily reminder FROM HIM that our marriage is the most important thing and everything that encompasses US. But of course, my h is the tough-nose cop who is simplistic in his ways and doesn't necessarily like confrontation at home because he deals with enough at work.<p>I guess MEN are MEN are Men are Men. This is the man i married and he has always been the more quiet type, but i guess i expect more from him now because of what he did to me. I will probably never get it - i think that is part of the suffering i will endure as his wife. Our pastor gave a message about suffering, and he said, just as Jesus came to be a light to the world, and so must we, Jesus also suffered greatly and so must we. Well, no doubt about it, i am GENUINELY suffering a heartache like i've never known before!<p>Praying for peace for us all,
Julia

Dear Posey,<p>Like Jenny said, if your D-day was recent then you do need time to vent. Within the first two months of our D-day, my H and I went to a counsellor who laid out some guidelines that were very helpful. He explained to us that men and women are different. It is very typical for men to want to put the whole thing out of mind, while women need to disucss it over and over and ask questions.<p>My H and I agreed that I would talk about it and ask as many questions as I wanted to for a period of time. The counsellor told me that the period of time would end when it became apparent to me that the questions and answers were only hurting me more rather than satisfying my need for information. Believe it or not, there did come a time about 6 months after D-day when I realized that I kept hurting myself over and over again by digging up the same information. Then I knew that it was time to stop.<p>The bottom line is the hardest part. You have to realize that nothing you do can change what happened -- the OC/OW are not going anywhere. Once you accept that you are powerless to do the one thing you want to do (make them disappear) then you have to focus on coping.<p>We also started to focus more on our relationship than the affair. We talked about what my H was feeling and going through that led to this point. When I heard how unloved he was feeling at home, I was amazed. He was getting wrong messages from me due to lack of proper communication. I also expected my H to read my mind. I was disappointed when he did not do what I wanted but I never TOLD him what I wanted.<p>Posey, just like you, I used to think that my H's suffering was nothing compared to my own. Not true. He was suffering. And he knew how much he had hurt me and damaged our marriage.<p>Julia, it might help you to sit and talk with your H about what you need to make you feel more secure. My H is also a police officer. He used to see OW by telling me he was working overtime. I told him that when he worked OT I wanted him to keep in touch with me so I could have peace of mind. At first, the tough guy was upset that I wanted to keep tabs on him. But, we talked it out and I made him understand that since he used that particular lie, he made overtime synonymous with cheating and I needed that reassurance.<p>I completely agree with others that the renewal ceremony should not depend on money or location. As long as it is meaningful to the two of you, it does not have to be elaborate. I think it is wonderful that your H came up with the idea. That shows he really wants things to work. <p>You may not feel it sometimes, posey, but it sounds like you are on the right track and you are handling things just fine. Like others have said, it takes time and persistence to heal. But you will get there.<p>Blessings to you,
heavenly

It is so ironic that this topic came up today because my h and I had a big fight last night regarding the same thing-letting go. <p>Heavenly, you made a lot of sense when you said that once asking questions brings more hurt than information, you have to stop. I kept feeling that the more we avoided talking about it, the longer it would take to heal. But the opposite seems true. When I would ignore those urges to ask questions or throw things in his face, it didn't erase my pain, but we didn't share the pain, and it was better. The pain that would manifest itself was never healthy, it never solved anything, and we both turned what could be a wonderful evening into a trip back to D-Day. <p>I have been thinking all day about how I can manage to have a conversation with my h without bringing up my feelings. All other conversations seem like feeble attempts to fill empty space. I'm trying to distance myself from him, he's noticing, and trying to get closer. A little late, don't you think? <p>He asked for space in regards to this torment, but wants to continue as though nothing is wrong. Quite difficult for someone like myself. But I will try. <p>Mnca, like you mentioned, it's sad that we are going through the punishment of being their wives when we've done nothing wrong, but Jesus was perfect and he was still treated like a murderer or thief. <p>And the sagas continue...

First, thanks to all of you for responding. Once again I feel like I am not walking alone through this. <p>Tryin asked about my D-Day. My D-Day was in July 2001 when my husband received a certified letter from OW stating she had a 10 year old child which was his. (This was my first exposure to the fact there had been an affair or a C.) During the following few weeks of dealing with that bombshell, I asked my husband to confess to any other indiscretions. That is when he told me of two other one night stands...that is the variety of affair my husband seems to prefer. (Forgive me for my sarcasm-it truly is born out of pain.)<p>Anyway, I have been dealing with this since July, so I am almost at the six month mark. We have yet to go to counseling-as mentioned in another post we live in a small rural town where none are available, (nearest one is 1 1/2 hours away)so we are now contemplating attending a marriage conference. I am also reading books on the subject like crazy. I just began the one After the Affair...I think Jenny recommended that one and I have bought the Power of the Praying Wife. Also, we intend to do the vow renewal ceremony.<p>Jenny, thank you for the post to newbies. I can't tell you how much it helped to hear your suggestions, particularly the one about the ceremonies. <p>Heavenly, your comment about stopping asking questions when it is causing more pain than helping really hit home with me. I just can't wait until questions are not constantly surfacing, begging to be answered. Before I ask them now, I try to stop myself and ask what answer would I want to hear and would that answer really help me in my healing. I then try to think of his reaction and ask myself if I can live with the hurt I will cause him by asking.
I have actually begun to feel guilty now about talking about it to him because he seems so defeated when I do. It is apparent, as Jenny mentioned, he has been dealing with the guilt for over 10 years..not knowing for sure but realizing the distinct possibility that he might have a child out there..worrying that it would all blow up in his face and he would lose his 20 year marriage and the family he had lived with for half of his life. That had to be a heavy burden to bear. And now he has to witness the pain and heartache he has caused. Also, he has to contend with the fact that our other children, both teenagers, will probably have to be told. He knows how much this will hurt them. Wow, I would definitely hate to be him. <p>So as Heavenly said, I do realize my H has pain, deep pain with intense suffering.<p>I know I have a long way to go in this process, and hearing from each of you that your struggles do lessen with time helps. <p>Strawberry, I can completely relate to the feeling that all attempts at normal conversation at times seem so empty and forced. I guess that too will get better eventually. <p>Did any of you have a problem with the repentent actions decreasing? What I mean is my husband, for approx 6 months now, has been constantly holding my hand, putting his arm around me, professing his love, kissing me hello and goodbye.
Now, I am watching his affectionate displays subside some. In the last couple of weeks, he hasn't held my hand each time we walk side by side, he doesn't put his arm around me every time we are seated next to each other etc. It is diminishing, and I resent it, but mostly I am frightened by it. I realize he cannot continue in that state of total devotion forever, but I am not ready for it to end. Did this happen to any of you?<p>Well, I had better go downstairs and join him. He knows that I come up here to read and post. Honestly, you guys are my therapy. I hope you feel the gratitude I have for each of you and the love I feel. You are truly an answer to my prayers. God is so good to me!<p>Love,
Posey

Posey,
With regards to your mention of a lessening of the affection, could it be that he is beginning to feel defeated? It sounds from all you have said since D-day, h has been doing all the "right" things. Men's attention spans are much shorter. He may think that 6 months of trying so hard on his part should be enough. And, if he doesnt think it is working, then he may figure why try so hard.<p>One of the first conversations I had with my h on D-day was regarding when enough was enough. He wanted to know right then and there if we were staying together. I told him I had no way of knowing. I told him that right that second, I wanted to fight, but three months from that moment who knew. I told him that what he needed to remember was when I didnt feel like fighting anymore, that he must pick up the ball and fight 100 times harder until I came back around. I also told him that my biggest fear would be that he would be ready to put this all behind us and I would not. What would we do then?<p>To make a long story short, that conversation alone, I believe, gave my H the insight he needed. Things have gone well since then. Occasionally he does need some nudging.<p>Keep on keeping on and talk to your husband. About how to save your marriage, not about the past. However, you are still in the fresh pain stage sweetie. Dont be so hard on yourself...or him. And by all means, keep posting! I would often post here and get guidance and then talk to my h. It helped me to calm down or see things clearly enough to talk to my H without LB. But Lord, I dont miss those days. <p>I hope you can see the light at the end of this tunnel. It is there. As for counseling, what about through your church if you go? The books help alot!!!! I would read them as often as you can. In a wierd way, they help keep you focused.

why can't I find that link?<p>Posey, I know exactly what you're talking about! It seemed like everything was so intense in our relationship after d-day. We talked sooo much, we cried, I yelled, I cried again, we talked more, making love was the best that it had been in years. We were affectionate with each other and were making big efforts.<p>Now, within the last month, things seem to be taking a back seat. He's not as affectionate or talkative, but still wants alot of sex. Hey, imagine that! I agree, not only is it frustrating, but it's scary as hell! It seems that as he is withdrawing, so am I.<p>It's not like I have been love busting or anything like that. I don't know *why* there is this change.<p>I'm scared that I am going to do something so that there's more drama in our lives that will get us back to the place that we were. It's almost like in order to get what I want from him, I have to put myself in victim mode again. I don't want to do that. <p>I'm scared and sad.