I was thinking of you and wonder how it's going? How are your kids? How is fh? <p>Closer to any resoloution?<p>Lots of Q's I know, but take your time and let us know, won't you?<p>Debi

gemini, it is so nice to know that there are people out there such as yourself who are concerned about our lives. i have actually writen but lost the post so i turned off the damn computer. i just type so slow that i become infuriated when i lose something to technology. the better world go figure. hope you and all here had a festive christmas and were able to find some peace through the vacation.<p>in answer to some of your questions i'll try to take the easy ones first. all of our children are doing well and the little ones really adore grace. my older ones seem to be accepting of her although they haven't been overly expressive about it. tensions seemed much more relaxed this year for some unknown reason. go figure. <p>fh and grace are both in excellent health but fh says in is a very rocky road right now. i have not been able to sleep in the same bed as her and grace. our 6 yr old has been sleeping in our 10 yr olds room so i have been sleeping in our 6 yr olds room. we seem to be in this state if limbo where when we are doing the everyday chores of life, kids, cooking, cleaning. etc. things will go fine but as soon as i see her with grace to her breast i immediately grow distant. i do feel that we are starting to put a plan of action together and we may be beginning to go in the same direction. i do however feel a great deal of resentment in the fact that we are in a seemingly no win situation now and that grace has been forced on me. adoption seems to be lost forever as my other kids have been bonding with grace since the 20th. ten days. they had their pictures with santataken with grace and if she were adopted out what would they say in 5 years "who is this baby in our santa picture?" grace has been in our home for almost 10 days now and i still haven't been able to touch her or hold her. fh is seeing first hand the pain that she has caused. i know i want our marriage to work but the feelings to express those feelings in actions and words is hiden deep down onside of me right now. <p>during the day of christmas eve while i was out last minute shopping i came to the conclusion that i did not want to let this guy ruin my kids or my life. he tried to wreck the business of my marriage and failed. now i will simply ruin his marital business. i have talked with fh and she is in agreement to sue him for cs. i am hoping he denies paternaty because cs will be acrueing at an alarming rate and i have no problem liening his house and persueing foreclosure if needed. again i know this cs issue is a very touchy one but remember it is me pressing for cs and not fh. she has finaly seen the light that if she loves her baby she has no other recourse. if (and God forbid) go down due to injury and cannot work fh will need as much $$$ possible to support both our c and grace. i know he will have visitaion rights but i feel that 175 - 200 k will be worth his 45 minutes with fh. he won't have the uts to stick it out for the long haul anyway. he'll run.
any contact with [censored] will be through me and i can garuantee he will not like it one bit. if fh will support me i think i may be able to get through this. i just need to get past the reminder of grace. i have had no desire at all to hold her and i don't feel feel it coming anytime soon in my heart.<p>i don't run to the store for diapers, i don't help watch her, i don't help do antthing with her. fh just brings her with her wherever we go and i feel almost guilty that i can't show her emotions. she's a child and she needs 2 loving parents not one.<p>even though i want to rebuild my marraige i too have these same feelings of why not just say goodbye and start my life over.

Thanks for your reply Pops. I do know what you mean about "losing a post" and shutting down the computer. I type slow too. ha ha lol...<p>You know I've been here over a year now (sigh) and I don't know what it is, as all the stories are heartbreaking, but I worry about some posters and really "breathe" their breath, so to speak.<p>Yours is one of those stories.<p>You have so much pain and all of this is so in-your-face. <p>I am sorry about your living arrangements. fh must be beside herself right now. I know, as all of us do, it's not the baby's fault, yet it's a guilt producing life and there is no way around that. God knows.<p>When we had our 1 visit last spring, I felt as if we had a neighbors c here. No anger toward baby. I fed him and soothed him when he cried. I let h change the "dirty diaper" while I changed his wet diaper before he left.<p>Afterwords h told me he felt emotionless toward c. Not how he felt with our own. HE felt guilt also. It's as if (because of our counseling liar priest) he felt forced to do the dad thing. He couldn't stand seeing me hold c and softly cried when I did and called me simply amazing. The point is the realization of all that ow and he had done came crashing down around him. He said he could not do that for me if tables were turned and wondered why God let him have me still as his wife.<p>Ow called him next day complaining about me and saying how hard it was for HER to have me come to pick up c! Well the calls and anger and chasing H continued up until Oct. Ow has quieted down.<p>In the meanwhile we've decided to let go of further visits. It just kept everything from the a alive for both of us. We want to forgive and forget and move on. With c involved it was too hard for us. Since that issue has been laid to rest we've become like old times again. Practically worry free.<p>As far as ow's h...we've asked him to adopt. If not we've asked him to deny paternity. Also have a paternity test to disclaim himself. Since Oct first we haven't heard a thing. At first we were going to do cs out of court. Ow's attorney letter was asking for the moon and stars so we decided to go the legal route. <p>Whether as a married woman she doesn't want to go to court or her and h have reconciled or they still plan to "drop da bomb" is a guess now.<p>I understand the need to make om pay. Dragging fh through that may not be wise if you stay together. No matter what OM will have a say in things if he wants to stir the sh**. You never know.<p>The reason you gave may seem right to you, but you'll have to provide for your 6 yr old too if you get hurt or lose your job.<p>I know it's still a revenge thing. I see it in the writing. Give it time Pops.<p>Heck if I could go after ow in anyway and have her pay a penalty to me I'm sure I'd want to do it! But wanting to and doing are two different matters. Would I really want ow money? Would it help me in any way? No....just keep her fires burning and constantly remind me of why I'm getting the check.<p>I will pray for your peace. For all of your peace.
Check in from time to time won't you?<p>I sure hope your limbo is short lived Pops.<p>Nothing would be better than to know you and fh have reunited and started building your marriage.<p>As for the breast feeding...couldn't you tell her the distance you feel in her doing it and ask her to formula feed? Maybe then you'd get a little involved in running out for formula some time in the future.<p>I feel for you guy. <p>Continued prayers.<p>Debi

gemini, sounds like your h has seen a new light in his life. you are very lucky to have found someone who is willing to try and right their wrong. he is extremely lucky (as are most of the ws's here) that you are willing to give him that opportunity.<p>as far as the breast feeding i have asked fh to go to formula explaining how i feel when she feeds grace. her reply ws that it is for grace's health. excuse me but there are thousands of babys who are bottle fed and they are very healthy children. bottom line is she is breast feeding for herself and she can't see that that act is just one more thing smothering my emotions for her. i ask myself costantly "how did i ever marry someone so selfish?".

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>as far as the breast feeding i have asked fh to go to formula explaining how i feel when she feeds grace. her reply ws that it is for grace's health<hr></blockquote><p>Oh lord Pops....I think she's in a "full house" fledged fog.<p>We can start the la leache arguement of the century here!<p>C'mon fh! <p>My son had a healthy start w/o the breast! Hel* , now it would be worthless as they are plastic surgery enhanced(we love em!).<p>It is the LEAST she could do!<p>God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.....<p>FH can change this.<p>Pops I gotta tell you that she is not being reasonable.<p>I cannot imagine putting my H through that plus the fact she wasn't his.<p>I will pray for you now,.....<p>Hey Pops as good as it is for us, I want a movie star man who would never ever do this ...... May the best man win.<p>Prayers to you.<p>Debi

Pops,<p>Have you thought of moving out for awhile?? It would seem that your W's level of sensitivity is amazingly low. I don't mean to be negative but every decision has been for HER benefit as you well know.<p>Has she offered any plan whereby your marriage will be rebuilt or is she just going to do what she wants and KNOWS that because you are a good man you will fall in line? <p>It seems to me that she has done all she can to integrate Grace into the family whether that is what you wanted or not.<p>I realize that Grace has brothers and sisters, but I do wonder if there is any act on FH's part that suggest that other than words she has any actions to offer that would help you heal from this situation?<p>I am not argueing that you end the marriage, but I am wondering if you need to step aside from this situation for awhile in order to get yourself together. This would be especially true if FH really has nothing to offer but business as usual.<p>She apparently has no idea what she has done and is doing to you. It truely seems amazing.<p>As for the CS, Debi as many good points. But my feeling is there is one difference whether you go for CS or not Grace will be a reminder espicially given how your W has handled the situation. Further, given your age, it is a wise insurance policy for Grace.<p>In any event keep posting, maybe use a word processor to type and then cut and past from that format into MB page. That way if you lose it and are a slow typer you really haven't lost it.<p>In any event, hang in there Pops.<p>God Bless You and Your Family,<p>JL

Pops, <p>
Just wanted to let you know I care and still we are praying for you.<p>I am part of the breast side of the argument, but in this case I say go with the bottle! You are right it is more for fh. Sure it is better for the child, but hey! if that is her true concern let her pump and them feed. She can make all the bottles and then you dont have to see them sharing these intimate moments right now. I am so sorry you are going thru so much pain right now pops.<p>Prayers are with all of you......<p>love
bw

gemini, i was so glad to hear that your surgery turned out well for all. it was difficult to read the entire post with my ahnd over my eyes though. anyway i also know what you mean about a movie star. i don't need or want a starlet but i would most definetly like to feel those emotions that i am in love again. to feel that their is someone i can show my inner self to while knowing that i am the #1 person on their list as far as them wanting to care baout my feelings and meet my needs. and no i don't expect this person to be a mother to me. i pray day and night that i can find these feelings for fh once more. to be away from her and have my heart race at the mear thought of her.
its been over a week since fh brought grace home and i just held her yesterday for the first time. fh was in the shower and grace was grying so i picked her up to try and comfort her. i was also trying to see if i could hold her and look into her eyes and maybe start to make some connection with her. it did not happen. my feelings were as you said your h's were, emotionless.
fh is going to ask for cs. i feel this is a no lose situation. with grace in our home, fh's infidelity is always going to be here so the om will always be in my life one way or another. cs may help grace to have things that we may not be able to provide for her. it will also come in handy if anything should ever happen to me (God forbid). fh will need all she can get to support grace and our 4 kids. if the om decides to take his visitation and ends up having a loving relationship with his daughter then everybody wins, especially grace. also if om does actually keep taking his visitation fh and i will have a built in babysitter minimum every other weekend and this will allow us some much needed time together. i vital requirement for a healthy marriage recovery.
my problem like so many here is trying to find someway to fall in love with a person that caused so much heartache through their own selfishness. i know that if she or i were to leave our marriage would end for sure. and that is because of the way I am. if we were to separate i am the kind if person that would most likely never look back. i would figure that is the way God wanted it and move on with my life. i am (though not ancient) to old to lay around and let grass grow under me. therefore i just keep on plugging along trying to find that one small spark that will allow all those loving feelings of yesterday fill my heart for fh again. as you well know over 22 years of history is alot to just throw away.
i wonder how many here have actually put the pain behind them and are truely happy in their marriages after this kind of turmoil.
glad to here you nad your h are doing well and are on the same page.

Dear pops,
I would like to make a suggestion that might be a win-win situation for both you and the new OC... Get your wife a good breast pump, OR you could even borrow a good electric one from the hospital (FOR FREE) through the nurses.<p>Your wife could pump the milk and either freeze or refrigerate some and alternate with formula and breast milk (pumping all the while), giving herself a chance to wean the baby while incorporating the healthier breast milk in bottles.<p>I think you are emotionless because maybe you see the baby as an "it, as in IT is a part of HIM..." instead of the innocent baby she is, perhaps??? I know that is how I regarded my first pregnancy that I promptly aborted at age 17. Just guessing?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>fh is going to ask for cs. i feel this is a no lose situation. with grace in our home, fh's infidelity is always going to be here so the om will always be in my life one way or another<hr></blockquote>
I understand Pops. I get it. You are right. Grace will always be there so why not a little help?<p>I also know what you mean about "color" of baby. My H's ow is very dark as is oc. My BEST gf is dark as are her c's. I get a wave of sadness feeling negative about color...maybe because I can't believe H even liked someone "dark"! Hel* ,I'm blonde with creamy skin! After d-day I found myself wondering how I'd look w/shiny black hair. Maybe then H would never leave! UGH!<p>Now I must tell you H is light full Italian. Ow is DARK full Italian. My bf is dark full Italian. I'm light Italian/Irish. I still feel like ow gave him the "best" because our son is a half-breed so to speak. My H is all about Italian as in "fageddaboutit" and "mupine"(dishtowel),and Godfather 1, 2, & 3...so you see even though I SHARE the nationality I'm not really "true" and can never be "made" as in Godfather.....Silly? It bothers me and always will. Same w/our son. Her or rather "their" son can be "made" and ours cannot. So much for movies and bad feelings. But they ARE real. Dark Italian children in commercials or anything can trigger me. The name she chose also bothers me. It's very Italian. When we had our son, his Dad came to us and begged us not to name him Angelo because Italians have too hard a time as it is. So we changed it to Michael. (Corleone? ha ha ). It pisses me off she chose such an ethnic first name. ok ok enough about that. I just know what you mean.<p>What I'd like to know is did fh change her mind on breast feeding? Have you said anything? It would certainly be an attempt on her part to start the healing ball rolling.<p>With all the confusing time schedules in your house I do hope you make time for counseling sessions soon. You can't remain in limbo forever. I would seriously look for someone religiously inclined to get a perspective on the right things to do to save your marriage. After a while you can seek other professional counselors. It's just such a hard thing to deal with.<p>I'd like to put our story in "Ladies Home Journal" under "Can This Marriage Be Saved?"<p>In all my years I've never seen a problem like ours in there! (sigh) Bet it would knock the socks off the readers and their problems wouldn't seem so bad!<p>I pray the new year brings new hope to your situation, Pops. <p>I wish you the best.<p>As far as a movie star goes...It was tongue in cheek. It's just that the knowledge of our spouses seeking out sex w/another is a crushing blow to our hearts and minds. We love them. They show remorse and do the right thing. Some days the right thing is never enough. Period. <p>Let us know from time to time how it's going .<p>Love
Debi

Pops,<p>Reading this thread caused a whole bunch of thoughts to go through my head. Then I think heck he as fathered 7 children to my three what can I say that he doesn't already know? I don't know.<p>So with your indulgence I would like to offer some thoughts. <p>First, the basic thing I am seeing seems to me so natural. You shouldn't be feeling anything for Grace. In many ways it would be unnatural for you to feel anything right now. Second, I suspect that your focusing on the breats feeding and other aspects of FH taking care of Grace may be exaggerating FH's feelings for OM. I mean she may not be thinking of him at all or very little.<p>I will do my best to state why I think this. I will do so by boring you with what you already know, but perhaps need to revisit. <p>I laughingly tell people that the definition of "useless" is a father in the delivery room. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I mean during the birth of our three children the Dr.s, nurses, everyone is busy but me. In fact our last child came so fast that I was in the labor room sitting on a sofa (only place to sit) watching all of this happen (fetal monitors, contractions, no time for epidural, etc) as if it were a football game. I was no more part of this than a spector 50 rows up in the stands. I realize that cutting the embellical cord is symbolic, and I realize that H's do "coach" their W's during labor, but none of this is terribly unique.<p>Why am I mentioning this?? Well, when it really comes to the delivery of a baby, especially in a hospital our (men) focus is on the Mother and eventually the child (for those few minutes before the child is whisked off). <p>Our connection to this whole process is at best mental and only exists because the child is ours (we think?) and that is our W going through this. Frankly, seeing my W in pain although normal pain, was very hard for me to watch. I have set my own broken bones before, relocated dislocated joints and not been as bothered on some levels as watching her in pain.<p>Your W and mine and everyone elses is focused during this process. They are focused on having this child, the effort, the pain, and hoping the child is delivered healthy. We has fathers are NOT part of their focus.<p>At this point I must interject something. I recall all of my children being born and wondering for the briefest of moments if this child were mine. I had no reason to doubt it, but my physical involvement in this process occured 9 months before and I wasn't really aware of it then. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I have over the intervening years asked many men if that thought ever crossed their mind. I have found not a single man that didn't have that thought cross their minds.<p>Reality, is/was that men didn't know and the only way to tell was by appearance. There have been studies done that indicate that women are more likely to see family resemblence on the H's side than men do. Why? Speculation it is important for the W to convince/confirm that the child is H's.<p>Now days with DNA and other tests, paternity can be confirmed and frankly appearances will become much less important. WHy? Because the H's will know that the child is his, no matter what the baby looks like. My take on this is that more interracial marriage will occur. In the past the only way people KNEW was if the child looked like someone in the family. <p>The strange point I am trying to make is that you KNOW that Grace is not your biological child and it doesn't make any difference if she is a blue eyed blond or a dark haired dark skinned beauty, the fact remains. Yet, you don't need the appearance to understand the truth, so in many ways her ethnicity or looks are not any longer important to you.<p>So where am I going? I ask myself? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I going to toward two things.<p>1. Your disconnect is normal because there was no mental connection to the child. THat is normal given the circumstances, but as in the case of adopted children you can and very likely will come to love Grace. So don't worry about that part.<p>2. My second point that as men we will NEVER understand what it is to have a child grown and nutured within us. The closest thing we could have to getting that close to another human being is sex. I doubt that the woman here can understand what we don't understand.<p>But if you take my statement that your W as was mine and most women was solely focused on giving birth to Grace and nuturing Grace, then her statements make sense. To her this isn't about the OM. It is about something you and I cannot ever in our lifetime understand.<p>It is true that FH cannot understand your feelings now, because to her this isn't a mental or emotional connection, it is a physical one. To us a child is a mental and emotional connection ONLY.<p>So my long winded point about this is, to give it time. As Grace develops a personality, crawls, explores, and walks; things men understand my guess is that you will bond with her. Don't worry about not feeling anything for her now.<p>As for FH, I hope that her focus will gradually move from full time nuturing Grace back toward the other kids, and yes further down the list to you and the marriage.<p>You have had 6 children together, you know this to be true. You were down the list before and you are now. The difference she has much damage to repair. The sad thing is there is nothing she can do to repair it. You will have to heal on your own. There is no action she can take to make it right, reverse it, or protect your family save what YOU are already doing. So hang in there and give it time and have patience.<p>I think you understand everything I have said and I apologize to you for repeating it, but maybe it will help to have heard it anyway. <p>Your W will never know what it was to watch her give birth to another man's child and she will never know how isolated and alone you felt when this happened. She was too busy and focused on something else.<p>Hang in there Pops. You seem to me to be very normal and so are your feelings. I don't think they indicate that your love is gone and that you will always think of Grace as you do now.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

I know most of you dont want to hear how I feel or my point of view, because i am considered the other woman to most. Even though all of our situations are different and we all dont know the whole story of what we have done or been through, I am hoping that you can listen with an open mind and know that all of us are going through pain, even if we brought it on ourselves and even if you think we deserve it. I am trying so hard with all my heart to do whatever i can to save my marriage, I have turned my life upside down and have hurt my h so deeply that it makes my heart ache so from the pain I have brought on us. I would do anything in this world to change it, but I know you cant go back. I know you think i am selfish in the fact that I am breast feeding my child, as I did all my other children. Yes it may be for myself and the close bond it makes, but it definitely is for health reasons, you see breast and uterine cancer run in my family, and i know for facts that breast feeding gives my daughter 60% more of a chance of not getting it, that may be a lame excuse to you all, but its very important to me to give my children a good and healthy life. I agreed with pops when he told me how much it bothered him, that I would get a pump, I am sorry that it took me this long, I was going to get one for free on the 18th, I guess I was not understanding enough that even for this short amount of time, that it was still to long for him to wait, so I went out today and purchased one. I didnt want to spend his money on it, I guess I thought I was thinking of him, but of course the money wasnt as important to him as the solution of the breastfeeding. I know alot of you have asked if we are going to counseling, we are not at the moment, we have gone through 4 different counselors, all whom have not helped us much, they all seem to end up one sided pretty much, believe it or not they tend to side with me, and i felt this was wrong, we both need help and both of us have problems that we need help with, how do you find a good christian counselor, plus with limited funds and no insurance. I love pops with all my heart and I know that life without him I could not imagine, I would be lost and dead inside, I will never understand how I put myself in the situation I did to take the chance of losing everything in my life that I evered loved. I hate myself so much for doing this to my family and especially to my h, I only hope I will have the chance to show him how much he means to me, how much I want to live the rest of my life dedicated in loving him, to show him that he is every thing to me and I would never do anything to hurt him again. I want to build the trust back, to help him find the love in his heart so that we can build our lives back together--forever. He is my life.

Dear full house and pops,<p>I have tears in my eyes reading this thread.<p>The love, the hurt, the innocent, and the hope that is all contained within this thread is so moving.<p>Pops, I love your user name, and you are a wonderful leader, hurt - but with God's help I know that you will be blessed for your faithfulness. You are a gift to full house, and to this family. We at MB are pulling for you, and hope you find those feelings you long to feel soon.<p>Full House - what incredible courage you have. My pastor always said that "grace" is a gift, and also meant undeserved kindness. For this child to have such a name, I have great faith that the love in your marriage will be restored, and all things will work out for the good. God be with you and your family.<p>I just want to say to JL, you are a very wise man. I think you hit it on the head in describing how a man cannot possibly understand what a woman feels, and visa versa. JL, you mentioned on Chris's thread that you are considering leaving MB soon, and I pray that you don't. You are very special and wise, and have a special gift. I often thought you were a woman, because of your sensitivity. I do believe this site is a god-send for many, and people like you are just great.<p>God Bless You all!
TNT

Thanks gemini1 for this thoughtful post.<p>Dear FH,
I don't know about anyone else, but it always blesses me and warms my heart when both husbands and wives post. There are always two sides to a story and it's just refreshing to read first hand...<p>I'm glad you got the pump, but sorry it cost you money. I think the free (industrial strength) ones from the hospital work 10 times better than anything you could buy, too! So you might want to still keep your schedule for the 18th since the stronger the pump, the better the supply. Those stupid hand pump things don't work worth anything and you could probably express the milk by hand quicker!!<p>I also think that you guys need to schedule some dates and have more time alone together. Maybe go to the park, sit down, and fill out the EN/LB questionnaires together or read HNHN together or even Surviving An Affair. Learning the MB concepts saved my H and I from having to spend a dime on any counseling.<p>Thanks for posting fullhouse. One last thing, the best gift you could hand yourself right now is probably forgiveness. It sounds like you are doing your best to show pops that his feelngs and concerns do matter to you.<p>Maybe OM will quietly pay CS without a fuss, maybe he will fight you for custody, in any case, expect the worse and hope for the best. I agree with your H that it is not fair for your family to pay for everything, regardless. God will get all of you through this. Nothing is too big for Him. Keep the faith!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I hate myself so much for doing this to my family and especially to my h, I only hope I will have the chance to show him how much he means to me, how much I want to live the rest of my life dedicated in loving him, to show him that he is every thing to me and I would never do anything to hurt him again. I want to build the trust back, to help him find the love in his heart so that we can build our lives back together--forever. He is my life.<hr></blockquote><p>I believe you fullhouse, I believe you. Those are the exact words my h has told me time and time again. Ahhhh, if had the power to turn the clock back.<p>I really do understand your pain too.<p>I'll bet it's a nightmare to realize a few moments spent in blind-to-the-world pleasure could cause so much incredible pain for a lotof others, especially when the others are your dear H and family.<p>I would listen to all who have responded here. BTDT has a way of spreading God's word. I have seen so much of HIM in her posts so I'd like to thank her for that. She sure has a way.<p>I'm happy to know you now are pumping those puppies! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I understand how a mothers instinct takes over in protecting her c's. 60% help is help well needed!<p>Right now give yourself a break on the self hate issue. I know my H is still plagued with that. Somtimes he looks at me and takes my hand with tears in his eyes and tells me how much he respects me and hurts for me. That the very fact I've forgiven this is beyond his wildest dreams. Then he smiles and says, I was praying you'd stay here. I knew you would. You're a good person and that is why I married you. You can never be anything else. You are special.<p>It is those times I let him know how greatful I am that we "share" closeness again. That God has blessed ME too. I missed him so much during the A you'll never know. I tried and tried to better myself never really knowing why. Hey, I plan a'd before I knew what it was!<p>I think you and Pops will come to the surface together and continue your marriage. I just can see you both wish for the same things.<p>Give him all the patience in the world fullhouse. Let him mourn the loss of exclusivity. Do pray aloud together. Attend church as a family, a proud family. God will bless you over and over. Just give it up to HIM.<p>Drop in from time to time and let us know how things are going. <p>You all have bundles of prayers from us. <p>And you have our love.<p>Debi

Fh, <p>I just wanted to say I'm glad you and the baby are doing well. You have a remarkable H who is going through a lot of pain right now. I pray and hope you two can make it. We all make mistakes and do things we regret. The bible says "let you with no sin cast the first stone." You seem repentant and remorseful I hope things work out between you and Pops. Good luck.<p>
Unsure<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: UNSure919400 ]</p>

Dup. post<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: UNSure919400 ]</p>

FH,<p>You said something that caused me to stop. I was wondering if you could clarify it a bit.<p>You said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I know alot of you have asked if we are going to counseling, we are not at the moment, we have gone through 4 different counselors, all whom have not helped us much, they all seem to end up one sided pretty much, believe it or not they tend to side with me, and i felt this was wrong, we both need help and both of us have problems that we need help with, how do you find a good christian counselor, plus with limited funds and no insurance. <hr></blockquote><p>What causes my question is this. You said that the counselors tended to side with you. What do you mean by that? Was it siding with your course of action with regard to Grace? Your choices? Why would they take sides and what were they choosing between?<p>Pardon my curiousity but it may help people here respond to the both of you.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

TnT,<p>You are most kind and coming from you I feel very humbled.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

When we first started to counseling, I was not fully into an A, I was very confused about my feelings and was unable to share them, I tend to hold things inside. The counselor kept telling H to give me room, let me find myself, let me make new friends, etc. It made me angry cause I was weak and was looking for strength and I failed. H feels this counselor gave me the shove or go ahead and didnt take into consideration his feelings or fears. I was not being honest with myself or anyone else, and I failed. When we went to the other counselors after finding out that I was pregnant, they tended to find out what I wanted, and told my H deal with it. I think if we had had better guidance, suggestions, whatever, maybe decisions in the beginning could have been more equally made and I would have had the support to change our lives for the better instead of making it as difficult as it has become. I know I cannot blame others for what choices I made, but good equal counseling might of helped me when I felt I had no choices, to see the outcomes more clearly, I may have chosen a different route with the support I needed. I hope this makes a little sense, I do have trouble expressing myself, that is what I am working very hard on--communication. Thank you all for your posts, I was pleasantly surprised at how supportive they were, I was a little afraid of coming back on to see the responses. My H is a good man, and I was a terrible fool and I pray constantly that someday he can forgive me and his heart will once again love me as I do him.