Hi,<p>My h and I had a yucky fight the other night. It seems like almost every fight leads back to the A. I am constantly throwing it in his face. I can't help it.
For example, I went shopping to buy some boots, and my h said, wow, that's expensive..and he said you could have waited, blah blah..and I was so upset I told him he has the nerve when he's throwing 500+ away a month for the oc! I bit my tongue. But I already said it?! I felt bad...Is this normal? What is your opinion?<p>
Just venting, thanks...

I think it is quite normal. As for the right thing I don't know. I'm still pretty new at this and find myself thinking of something to say with almost every conversation I have with H. Sometimes I say them to him and sometimes to myself. I take it as a sign that I haven't completly dealt with everything I need to with him yet (only 5 months now). It seems like everything reminds me of it...t.v., the news, everyday life situations, you name it.<p>From what I've been reading here on this message board, I am begining to understand that we need to pass a certain stage in our recovery to be able to forgive and not let these overpowering emotions get the best of us.<p>I wish you peace!<p>Take care,
Why

Not only is it normal, but you must say these things because you cannot suffer this nightmare alone. To just stuff it and keep quiet to spare spouse is asking for trouble. However, you can learn more constructive ways to make your point without making spouse defensive or sounding like a nag...not that you are, I am speaking generally.<p>Next time, you can say to him quietly and with some degree of compassion for his pain at what he has done, "I know we really can't afford these boots for me right now. But I want/need them and I feel entitled to them. It hurts me that we shell out $500 a month of our money for child support on something that never should have been. And I resent that I am made to feel guilty just buying myself a pair of boots and that seems wrong to me."<p>When you make a lot of "I" statements rather than angry "YOU" statements, the messages get across without the guilty party feeling even worse than he is already feeling.<p>You certainly have a right to your anger and a right to lash out, but there is a better way to handle it.<p>I still occasionally say things to my husband that I probably shouldn't and we are three years after discovery, but it is rare and provoked when I do.<p>You're ok and you are normal and your behavior makes complete sense. It isn't going to change overnight...it takes a couple years to get over the worst of it. But it does get better with time.<p>Catnip =^^=

Butterfly,
Quite normal! I would do the same. We are not that far yet. I know how resentful sending money to oc can make a person. I read it here all of the time. Normal? YUP!!!
love
Debi

Yeah I like what catnip said, but on the other hand, I bet that shut him up, huh?! I have to say that if I were in your shoes, butterfly, I'm sure I would have LB'd exactly the same way.<p>Too bad you felt bad for saying what you said tho. I mean, it's TRUE, right? You meant it, right? It's how you felt at the time, right? So what's wrong with that?<p>You are not lashing out at the OC. I didn't get that from your anger. The money situation is not fair to you. Meaning, the fact that you have to sacrifice while OW is collecting your residual income! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>On the other hand, I'm very curious as to how your H reacted? Was he apologetic? Did he fall silent? Did he just quietly leave the room? Did you guys discuss? Did you take the boots back?<p>Maybe you guys can work out a POJA on spending. For example, if either of you wants to spend over 20 bucks, discuss it first? Would that be too restrictive for you?<p>Money is a big trigger for me too, cuz I make a lot more than my H so a part of me doesn't feel like I need to "ask" before I can buy something for myself. But, it's one pot that our money goes into and I know that my H would give me his last dime if I wanted it. I'm sure yours would too.<p>I don't think you should feel bad. Your feelings do matter. I bet he won't fuss at you for buying a little something for yourself ever again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Butterfly,<p>I know where you are at. I have been there.<p>Back in December, we had just come back from a four-day, cross-country visit to Precious, H's daughter by his A. I asked H to register me at a web site so that I could track my frequent flier miles online. For whatever reason, he was having problems getting me registered and asked me if I had tried to register previously with my frequent flier number. I said I didn't remember, but I didn't think that I had. (He figured that if I had previously registerd and made up a password that was what was preventing him being able to do it.)<p>That was it. He was off to the races. He said:
"What a huge f-----g waste of 5 minutes of my time time. Rant! Rant! rage! rage! rage!"<p>I upped the anty. I said "No, a huge waste of time and money is spending a small fortune 4x a year to fly across the country, giving up my vacation time to visit the child born of your affair." He shut up immediately. I won the argument, but I didn't do either of us much good.<p>Next week I went to marriage counseling by myself. I was feeling very guilty about my response. I told the marriage counselor that I had gone nuclear on H. He asked what I said. He said "That's not nuclear. Nuclear would have been..." and proceeded to list H's faults for the past 16 months since D-day. (We have had a rough recovery period and H has had lots of starts and stops on the road to recovery so there was a lot to list.)<p>HOWEVER....I walked away from that argument and from marriage counseling the following week determined never to throw his A in his face again. It is counter-productive to my goals--improved marriage, children, a better life. We are about to have children and they should not be subjected to such high levels of anger.<p>It is perfectly normal for our thoughts to fly immediately to how we have been wronged, but it is not the MB way to fix our marriages. It is perfectly natural for married men to think that they can fart up a storm in front of their wives after they are married just because they can get away with it. It might be natural, but it doesn't increase my feelings of love for him. According to Dr. Harley's theories, much of what is natural is not what makes a happy marriage.<p>In your case and mine, it is perfectly normal for our thoughts to go there, but it is counter-productive to actually say it. Can we put down our weapons and build a better life?<p>Now for the hard part: Can I put this plan into action? Can I live up to my resolution to not escalate fights? Remeber, MB says do not fight LBs with bigger LBs. Mr. J tends to the verbally abusive side. I fear no physical violence from him, but he uses words as weapons. My plan is, in the same situation, to ask him if he is treating me with the courtesy and kindness that I deserve to be treated with. If he does not stop his tirade, I am going to raise one hand like a traffic cop and say "I am not going to have this conversation with you. I am going to [take a walk, go read a book, go to another room, whatever]. We can talk about this when you are able to treat me with the respect I deserve."<p>I am going to get some books on verbal abuse. One is called "You Can't Talk to me That Way."<p>I am not holding you up to critcism Butterfly, at least not to any that I am not holding myself to. Forgiveness for something as big as an affair and a child is a life-long process. It means a willingness to not seek the justice to which we are entitled. It means delibertly putting aside the injury, disarming, laying down our weapons. I think it means that after the first few months of understandable fury, we shouldn't speak of our spouse's affair except when we are calm enough to speak to them with respect. I don't know if I have that much self-control but I want to protect him from my angry outbursts (and I want him to stop his angry outbursts also). <p>On the day I learned of his A and OC, I said to him "I will not stay in this marriage if it is going to turn me into a bytch." So far, I have not completely successful in preventing that change. I pray daily to be perfected (which means "matured" not "flawless") in God's Grace.<p>Yes, I was provoked. He was wrong to talk to me that way (and he knows it and apologized). I can't control his behavior, but I have to learn to control my response to it. <p>In love,
MJ