delete (don't ask)<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

HBH,<p>I don't have any advice right now but I wanted to give you this..<p>((((((((((((((((((((HBH))))))))))))))))))))<p>Hugs and prayers to you!!!<p>You are in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there HBH and just take care of you right now.<p>It will be ok, trust in the Lord and it will be ok. Remember, He doesn't give you more than you can handle.<p>((((((((((((((((((((HBH))))))))))))))))))))<p>K/DSN/LostNco
[H]'s wife [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks Knewjie, I've been thinking of you, How are you and H doing??<p>I know you are right. Oftentimes I think back and realize that my marriage would not have survived this 7 months ago. But, maybe it can now, I don't know. But, I think God knew I couldn't handle it then...<p>Thanks!
HbH<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

First, for you:<p>((((((((((HbH))))))))))<p>You are a very strong and compassionate woman and wife!!<p>Wow, this story is amazing, esp. the part about him not saying if the baby is alive or has passed on. I also know someone who's baby died in utero, in fact, sadly, I know two people. But, his not telling you is like a really creepy mystery... it must feel kind of surreal??<p>Thinking of you...

Hi HbH,<p>Hugz, you know the gamit of emotions your H is taking based on not knowing or saying everything sounds very familiar. He appears to be making life changing decisions based on supposition. <p>PBR did that to H not once but 3 times. Remember? The first time was hard. PBR actually convinced H that it was MY fault for her supposed miscarriage. That was one reason why it was so hard for him to tell me and hard for him to not tell me. Get that?!?!? Well that only led to my frustration and added to his. <p>So what I can say (& hope others will give even better suggestions) is that you tell your H that you love him and want to be supportive to him (I know you have already done that), then mention that it is good to get firm proof before making firm plans. You can give him our example. <p>See PBR did some research may have even visited a doctor or used the info that I gave H (see I had done my research with my GYN). So her story of the miscarriage sounded crediable but no actual proof of the miscarriage was ever given. Yet H still went through the gamit of emotions as if it was real. I had to live with it to. It hurt, made me cry, gave me anxiety attacks and I would have had it as long as my H was going through it. Whether I saw him or not. So the separation piece does not really make the problem go away it just shifts it or delays the reaction. You probably will still go through the same things. <p>I hope this helps, if you can share these thoughts with your H it may help. Eventually my H got over it. In our case it is an unresolved mystery since PBR never fessed up either way. So unless Robert Stack does an unsolved mystery show on it, I have to let it drop. <p>In your case, if it is real and there is closure with proof, it will be easier to go on. Please let your H know that the best support will be if the both of you are honest and face this together. <p>Take Care,
L.

NGU, thanks for the well wishes. I know what the answer is. (that the baby has passed on). But, I have not heard it from my H's mouth. So, it is not that bad. I can't explain it, maybe God filled my head so I wouldn't have any anxiety attacks today, don't know, but it's not bugging me because I FEEL like I've been told the answer, y'no?<p>He doesn't tell me because it hurts too much and (as my C and I have figured out), my H was raised in a family where they don't show emotion. So, until he can tell me w/o nearly crying his eyes out (for what he has done) -> he won't.<p>Orchid, yeah, I hear what you are saying... My H is definately trying to make these kind of decisions, but thanks to my friends here, I won't buy in to it and I'm adamantly refusing to make any decisions at all. I keep suggesting that he do the same, that's all I can do for now... "no, I will not do that, I'm not making any decisions yet.", "no, I don't think that's a good choice to make and I don't support it", etc.<p>I just don't understand why my H is so normal all of a sudden today. I mean, after last night, I expect him to not even talk to me, wall himself up in his little ball of pity and do nothing. But, he sent me like 4 emails, a phone call just to tell me his school schedule?? What's up with that? He said that I told him to tell me right away when he knew it so he called as soon as he got home. Well, okay, but, that's a little extreme, I mentioned it nonchalantly 2 weeks ago, not to drop everything and call me the second he gets home from school... Hey, maybe he just wanted to hear my voice - wouldn't THAT be nice!! I don't even get that on regular days most of the time (depends on if he is bored at home).<p>I actually got the impression he wanted to say more over the phone, but he wasn't, just dead air as he was trying to get the courage, so, I ended up cutting it short instead of it being awkward...<p>Maybe he actually thought about some of the stuff I said. I hope so. At least he seems to be letting me in a little again, at least as a friend to talk to about normal, everyday stuff.<p>I haven't brought up any issues all day, so I'm proud of me... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It's hard to bite your tongue on this stuff. Now, if I can JJJUUUSSSTTT manage to keep it up when I get home and not give in when he tries to pick a fight - I'll be okay... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>HbH

hbh,
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs to hbh}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>wow, I have no advice, just in awe of your situation and prayers for a good outcome.<p>J

Gosh,
Very difficult to deal with someone whose emotions are on edge and swinging from one extreme to the other.<p>I think that is why Plan A and Plan B are for the BS to figure out what they want and stick to it.<p>I agree with you that no contact is reasonable, regardless.<p>Now that the baby has passed and just like you said, paternity is not proven, your H has no obligation. WHY he is feeling obligated is beyond me...<p>You know what you want, stick to it, what you are asking for is not unreasonable.<p>My guess is that your H was grieving for the baby and maybe now your voice of reason is sinking in and he's coming back to his senses? Just my take on it.<p>Hopefully he will open up to you when he is ready. If I were you I wouldn't quit trying to get him to talk about it tho. Everybody needs somebody to talk to.<p>Try not to get caught up in his whirlwind. You seem to me like you are the voice of reason in this whole mess...

delete<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

HbH,<p>I just wanted to say that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your husband right now.<p>You have been such a help to me in the past. I know you have the strength to get through this crisis, and be there for your H. <p>If this does turn out to be his child, and the child dies, it will be extremely difficult for him, regardless of the status of OW. I hope and pray he allows you to comfort him and be there for him through the entire ordeal. <p>Be strong, take care of yourself so you can have the strength to take care of others.<p>Needing

Hi HBH,<p>Can I just strongly recommend that you call Steve or Jenn on this???<p>I can completely appreciate where you are at with all of this emotionally - and I don't think ANY of your requests to be involved are out of line or unreasonable.<p>BUT...your H just lost a child. He is, as you have said yourself, from a family that doesn't deal with emotions - so he doesn't know how. And he's got to be feeling an overwhelming amount of grief, shock, horror (at the consequences of his own actions) and doesn't know what to do about it all.<p>And of course, theres no telling WHAT the ow and her family are playing at. <p>I think you need to get a game plan in place ASAP before this totally self-destructs around you. Steve or Jennifer would be your very best bet right now.

delete<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

{{{HBH}}} I really haven't known how to respond, so I'm sorry I haven't. It strikes me, though, that OW is 1200 miles away. There's a baby, then suddenly there's not. Is it remotely possible that this is a sick, twisted plan of OW's? I mean, if your H doesn't go out there, she's caused a HEAP of pain on your and him, yet with the baby dying, even if your H went out there to make sure OW is o.k., she wouldn't have to look pregnant anymore. Oh, sorry if I'm not getting all the facts right, but it seems pretty fishy that you'd find out, only to have the baby die a few days later....Hugs and prayers going out to you.<p>MOM

MOM, exactly my point earlier, it doesn't make sense to me either. I wouldn't put it past this woman. Of course, that doesn't help with my feelings about him going out there (if he did)... I'll get over it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I swear if this is some sick game... Oh boy - okay, well God will take care of it, so I'm not going to put any effort into worrying about it.<p>AND if I did find out it was some sick game, I'm pretty sure I can sue her as* for something, and you better believe I will. And if my H found out... Yikes, I can't even fathom what he would do, something really bad, I'm sure.<p>For right now, maybe it happened for a reason, maybe my H needed the reality check. I don't know... <p>I just got this horrible, horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach for no reason about an hour ago. I don't know why. I bet my H did something I won't like very much... sigh. Maybe it's nothing.<p>Thanks for the hugs.
HbH

HbH,<p>Can you check with her local hospital or ask if there has been a death certificate made out that would confirm her story? I don't mean to sound morbid but it may be a way you can verify without having to involve your H. <p>Just a thought. <p>L.

Hi HbH,<p>I'm on lunch break at work.<p>I'm with Rosie on this, although please do remember I have a suspicious mind these days. <p>Things just don't seem to add up. I think I would keep my antennea up and stay frosty.<p>You sound better and stronger, I'm so happy to see that.<p>Best,
Jo

delete<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>

What!!?!?! you think I'm crazy for asking the hospital for proof? You can, if there will be a death certificate issued. I didn't say visit the hospital, just call the hospital. <p>Unfortunately this DNC could also be done in a clinic or in/out patient thing. So it may be harder to track. Ask some of the medical staffers who are on this site, they might have a better way of tracking it. <p>Again, you still have not been shown proof, right? Hm......yet there will be a funeral next Wednesday? Just doesn't sound real coherent yet. <p>Just me and my analytical mind. As for him going to the funeral alone, I still think it is a bad idea. AS for the separation, how long, 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 2, years.....?!?!? He expects you to NOT date? Can you make that commitment? Can he? Sounds a bit foggy to me. But hey, that just my opinion. <p>Hugz HBH to you and your family. <p>L.

hbh, <p>I wonder, does your husband pray? Is he spiritual at all?<p>Since the baby has passed on...the spirit has passed on. There is nothing but a body anymore. In my mind, (sorry if this sounds totally off the wall to most of you, I'm not really religious like lots of you are) the baby is now (as was always) a real child of God. Like, living with God! I feel that the best way for him to ease his guilt is to communicate with the baby by praying. Talk to the baby, talk to God. They can hear him.<p>My grandpa died a few years ago. He loved hawks and I see them all the time where I live. Whenever I see them, I think of my grandpa and I talk to him. I feel like he's watching over me and my family. I still feel his love and his presence. I don't go to the cemetary often. He's not there. He's in my heart. He's in the hawks that I see. He's in the beautiful sunset. He's in the birds chirping and the wind blowing through the trees. <p>The essence of this baby is not in the ground or in an urn. It's wherever he wants her/him to be. Maybe the only way that he can feel a connection with this baby is to see the mother. Maybe he feels guilty for *not* knowing this baby in any way and feels that the only way, is to find out about the pregnancy and how it progressed. I guess nobody knows, probably not even your husband!<p>I don't know. I'm sorry if I am just rambling here and sounding nuts [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It's just that the baby is not there and the only real reason that I can see why he is going is to grieve with the xow OR to try to somehow have a connection with this child. That won't happen, though. He'll ruin everything with you by trying to attain something that is impossible to attain in the way he's going at it.<p>Stick to your guns. NO CONTACT. <p>tinlizzy(who hopes that all of you don't think that I'm nuts!)

<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>