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They don't issue death certificates for stillborn children do they? I thought they only did this if the baby was delivered alive and then passed away after the fact.<p>I'm sorry for being so morbid. Sigh. I really am not okay with this whole thing even though I seem indifferent at times. Still in shock. Sometimes I just feel so cold...<p>When I got home my H was on his way out and when I saw him he said, don't worry, we can fight tonight. I wonder what that was about??<p>Maybe he changed his mind since we talked this afternoon. Maybe not. Sigh.<p>This codependent stuff is so tough... My IC says my H can't make his own decision, so he is trying to use what I "may" decide as a factor in what he will do, so he will not be responsible for his decision...<p>Very weird stuff. I'm doing okay though. Thanks again everyone.
HbH
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Hi HbH,<p>I just got home and was checking up on you. Good to see that you are still in control of yourself. <p>Hugz to you and your family. What you are going through is very rough. As far as the death certificate, put the post. The reason why I said that is if there is a service and burial, that may be a requirement. I am not sure if that varies from state to state. <p>Your H sounds like he is attempting to be reasurring to you. Don't pass his attempts off, it may be the most he can do in this current state of mind. <p>Keep posting here, let me know if you want to talk this weekend. Free weekend minutes to use!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugz,
L.
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I had two stillborn daughters in different states. Neither state issues a death certificate for stillborn children. And, yes, we had funerals for them (graveside services).<p>I have to say that I find all this stuff to be really fishy sounding. Did I read right that the OW is miles away from her family and is going through this all by herself? Excuse me, but I find it hard to believe that a mother would let her daughter go through something like this and not be there. I would have been at my daughter's side in a heartbeat, as my mother (actually, both our whole families were there for us) was for me.<p>As for waiting to induce her, that also seems odd to me. True, I carried my 1st stillborn daughter for about 3 weeks before delivering her, BUT the doctor didn't tell me she was dead. I think the reason he didn't tell me was because my appointment was just a few days before Christmas, and he knew I had young childen at home. In any case, I delivered her on Jan. 2, a month before my due date. Had I not gone into labor, he would have told me and admitted me to the hospital and induced me at my next appointment.<p>My second stillborn daughter died the day of my appointment. I had already had some discharge, so my doctor told me that I could go home and prepare myself, as he believed I would go into labor very shortly. However, I couldn't bear to go home, knowing that my baby was dead, so he induced me that afternoon, almost a month before she was due.<p>So, the question in my mind is this: Is she really pregnant? If so, is there really any problem with the baby, or is this some kind of scheme she, and maybe her mom, cooked up to get H to be there with her so she can get back with him?<p>I guess, if I were you or your H, I'd want to make darned sure there really is a baby, and if so, that there really is a problem with the baby. It seems awfully convenient that you have no way of knowing where she is so you can find out what's really going on. At any rate, I hope you do insist on knowing exactly where your H is going, if he goes. You could then check to see if there is a newspaper death notice, anyway. (Yes, they usually do print death for stillborn children.)<p>Another thing.....a very small stillborn baby cannot be embalmed due to the tiny veins, so the funeral would have to be very soon after the delivery. Also, the funeral director advised us that the caskets not be opened for family viewing before the service, as the baby's appearance is not very pretty after some time has passed due to skin discoloration that sets in. Since stillborn babies never draw breath, they are already sort of bluish.<p>Good luck, and my heart goes out to both you and your H.<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Lady Clueless ]</p>
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HbH, I'm so glad you've got someone coaching you through this!!! Wow! Pats on the back, really. Policy of Mutual Agreement!<p>I also don't think there is a death certificate if the baby passes in utero. There must be breathing prior to death.<p>As for mothers who do not go to their daughters, my mother did not come for ANY of my births, death of baby, or miscarriages (6 pregnancies)! Some mothers are just not very maternal, and mine is one of them. Just my 2cents on that topic.<p>Prayers for you HbH and everyone dealing with infidelity, J in recovery 3+ years and happy [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
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Ok my 2 cents on this, I am going to get medical.<p>You had mention in an early post that this was genetic. If it is genetic, your husband needs to be tested. BOTH parents of a baby with genetic problems are carriers BOTH. your husband can be a recessive carrier and OW a dominate carrier, but both have to have the genetic malformation. I say this for two reasons, one you mentioned you and hubby may have another child. if you are a recessive carrier your luck could run out (you two have had 3 healthy children). and second, your children will be carriers, and should recieve genetic counceling before trying to start their families. You and hubby should aslo go to genetic counceling before attempting to try again, that way you will learn of all the possible risks, and what birth defects you will be dealing with if the baby survives. In other words, informed consent. THIS IS WHY, YOUR HUSBAND SHOULD INSIST ON THE DNA. This is not just a shame it is a tragedy, if she is lying. I would SUE. I also cannot imagine her going through this all alone. But as Jenny said you never know.
Now, I agreed with the poster about how fast they bury these babies. I worked L&D for years (17), and these babies who die in utero and are not delivered right away, well I dont want to upset anyone. They are not always delivered intact. They can also infect the mother, which is why I was surprised with the decision of the doctor in the above post, who waited 3 weeks to induce, my husband had to induce one Christmas day (this womans 3rd loss), lets say we have had better Christmas's. Believe me when I say the Doctors are very affected by this. OB doctors, chose OB because they cant handle death, period. I guess they are human.
Now what I am thinking is this, that baby is not clinically dead (if there is a baby). OW has probably been told, it is incapatable with life, and has had this confirmed with level 3 US .
She needed to get the arrangements done(for the services), and allow family to get there. So they agreed on this later day for induction. ALSO some women, when they know their babies have expired, want them out RIGHT AWAY..NOW (and this is what we see the most). BUT some cant let go, and need serious coaxing to get to the hospital for induction, we even had to track a patient down, and she signed a release AMA(against medical advice). So I have seen both sernios. And to the poster who thought the patient could get a D&C, not this far along. Hubby delivered a 33 weeker this AM, it is fine on room air.
OK finally they do not issue a death cert for a stillborn. BUT of this baby has not expired, which is how I am thinking esp if she is a large city like you said (this would be a HUGE libilty for the doctor, if she were to get infected). the baby maybe incapiable with life, but still could have an apgar which at that point will be issued a death cert...OH the confusion. This all sound really fishy too me. esp the part with the NO info, except through her mother. YOUR husband needs to have this OW call him and tell him everything, I know you want no contact, so listen in. BUT for him to take off on a story that is not confirmed, by the source. OR have the OW DOCTOR call your husband, if she give him permission the Doctor can call, or your husband can call the doctor. BUT OW has to give permission. Hurtbyhubby, at this point Paternity is really the issue, esp if there really is a genetic disorder. NOT for your husband to feel bad about this OC, but for the children you already have, and any future children you may have. If you are not a carrier of the disorder,your children only have a 50% chance of being one, but if you are also recessive as I stated above, they have a very high % chance of being carriers (not having the disorder, just carrying the gene for it).
Sorry I just finished a genetics class for my continuing education.
Dont get freaked out by what I have said here, Millions of us carry different gene disorders, there are alot of variables involved, but the fact OW had such a child(if there is a child). There is a problem definantly with her, and with your husband if he is the father (at least as a recessive carrier). Good luck
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I need to clarify something. When I lost my 1st stillborn daughter, the doctor didn't wait 3 weeks to induce. What happened was this:<p>About a week before my appointment, I had gotten up from a low chair and felt a sharp pain in my abdomen. When I went to the doctor on Dec. 23rd, I told him that I thought I was going to deliver early, because the baby had dropped and she wasn't moving around (I experienced a drop in movement with my two older children, as well.). When he used the monitor to listen, he muttered, "This thing isn't working." and left the room. When he came back, he said that their other monitors were being used by the other doctors and told me to come back on Jan. 4. On New Year's Day, I went into labor and delivered the morning of the 3rd. The cause of death was plancentae abruptio (detachment of the placenta), which accounted for the sharp pain, so that is why we estimated that she died 3 weeks before delivery. So, I really believe that the doctor figured that I would deliver fairly soon, and that is why he didn't tell me in the examining room 2 days before Christmas.<p>I was really very lucky, as placentae abruptio is usually risky for the mother due to hemorhagging (sp?). The reason I had no problems in that way is because the placenta had basically stopped functioning and dried up prior to detaching. The baby and placenta came out together.<p>Anyway, if there really is a baby, I agree that if the doctor is waiting to induce until next week, it is probably for a condition that is non-compatible with life, and not necessarily because the baby is already dead. I had a friend who delivered a baby with anecephaly (absence of a brain). She carried her baby to term, and the baby died during delivery. Sometimes these babies breathe and live for a short while, but there is nothing that can be done for them.
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<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>
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Inducing today or tomorrow? On a weekened? Well, that's another thing that sounds fishy to me.<p>I'm not saying it can't happen, but unless there's some immediate danger to the OW's life (requiring an emergency induction), I don't think a doctor would generally schedule an induction on the weekend, just like they don't schedule non-emergency testing or non-emergency surgery on weekends. This stuff sounds fishier all the time, like the woman (who used to post here) whose H's OW claimed to be pregnant with multiples that gradually reduced down to fewer and fewer babies until the OW finally claimed that the remaining baby was stillborn.<p>Have you considered having US Search try to find out where OW is? I would try it.
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Hi, <p>Ok, I am 'medically' not correct. This process with the OW's supposed baby is not a DNC procedure if she is even prego. I am glad to see those in the know are helping out here. You all did help me before. Sorry for the medical term el goofo but I am glad HBH is getting support here. <p>You ladies and gentlemen here have my utmost respect. I see all the stuff that comes up here (OW interfernce from the 'other place' included) and you all still show resiliency. <p>Thanks for being there for my friend. <p>L.
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Orchid, thank you for being here for us!!<p>LC, I totally, 100% agree. This was scheduled supposedly, not an emergency, and it doesn't make sense to me either.<p>That is why I say I think these people are taking my H for a ride, at least in some aspect.<p>At least I make 100% of the family $$ now (and H does not have access to it) and there is no way in HELL I am paying anything w/o a DNA test.<p>We are supposed to talk tomorrow about exactly what will happen on the trip, and believe me, I will try to fit all this in, whevenever I can.<p>HbH
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Goodness Orchid,
I did not mean to insult anyone. I have little time to post, that was why my ans was short. I had tried to post the other day, and because I clicked on from the other board, it made me log on again and I lost everything. I am currently rewriting the medical protocols for the hospital my husband is chief of. That and the fact I have a small child makes it difficult. I followed hurtbyhubby post from the other board over here. Her post had caught my eye, and was mortified when I had read it. I can never imagine going through what she has, or anyone else on this board. I guess it could happen to anyone. Sometimes I am more "clinical" than emotional. It can help. you see I too like lady clueless have lost a child. Not something that I talk about. Also the reason why my husband has such a tough time, when his patients go through something like that.
Lady clueless, I am sorry for your losses. It is something you would not wish on anyone. That makes more sense, that the doc waited just days for US. I am glad you were fine, physically.
Hurtbyhubby, you sound so remarkably strong.
I am sure everything will turn out fine.
CO is a big state, they do have a remarkable OB unit at the U of CO, in fact a couple of the doctors there are big in research. If she is around Boulder, they will be doing genetics on this baby.
By the way, I agree with whoever said that it is unusal to be induced on a weekend, VERY unusal, esp if they diagnosed a FD (fetal demise) early in the week. something sounds FISHY here. That rarely happens (unless the OB wants a divorce
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ) they are never home (the reason I came to MB in the first place, I am a work widow). If they had diagnosed the FD fri, I can see it, not tues, no way, nope. I would see if husband can talk to her doctor, He can just say he is concerned about this genetic thing, cuz his other children could be carriers. anyway my time is up..baby is pounding on the keyboard and hubby is calling...
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<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>
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Mrs Doc and HbH,<p>No, I realize that my 'dnc' statement was not the correct medical term. I really appreciate the correction. Really. With my 2 'misabortions' as I believe they were called (I personally did not like the medical term) a dnc was done since it was under 12 weeks. <p>My point to HbH was that the info being given to her doesn't all make sense even to my feable mind (been working too many hours - LOL!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). So I am really glad that you and others have been here to help her. I have learned a lot also. <p>Thanks again for all your help!! <p>HbH honey,<p>You are doing soo well. I am proud of how you are handling yourself in this ordeal. I left you a message last night. <p>Hugz to you and your family. <p>L.
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Dear HbH,<p>I have been following your story. What an awful position you and your H are in. I am so sorry for your distress.<p>I subscribe to a service that sends me interesting web site links each day to check out. The one that came today made me think of you. Maybe it could be useful. I searched for "Colorado" and it gave me an alphabetical list by last name.<p> Today's Refdesk Link of the Day is: Obituary Daily Times
at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~obituary/<p>Search for over 4 million obituary death dates (full-text obits not included) from nearly 2,000 publications around the United States. Entries typically include name, age, city of residence, source of obit, and death date. <p>I'm thinking of you and your H and pray that your anxiety is eased soon. Best wishes, Estes
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delete<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>
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HbH,<p>It seems like your H is trying to resolve this tragic situation by going to his daughter's gravesite. He is terribly torn by not wanting to hurt you and wanting to show his commitment to the baby. It's eating him up. I feel sad for him. I don't think that he is trying to see xOW.<p>However, his lack of concrete information is strange. I assume that the two of you have agreed that he is not talk to xOW. Could you talk to her if you get her number from the mother? H needs to get on the phone with xOW's mother ASAP and find out:<p>OW's address and phone number OW's doctor and hospital funeral home OW's using<p>Once H knows this basic information, he can make some decisions. As it is, your H doesn't know where he is going or what he is going to do once he gets there. No wonder he's confused.<p>For what it's worth, I vote for H going to the gravesite in two weeks and you going with him for moral support. All this other is too confusing and vague for me.<p>Estes
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delete<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: hurtbyhubby ]</p>
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HbH, the saga continues, sigh,<p>You may be right about it being too soon to post the obits on that site.<p>Does your H even know OW's town? OW's mother is indeed behaving strangely! All H needs to know is cemetery. He can watch from afar on Wednesday afternoon, or go later and ask the cemetery office where the grave is, or as you say, take a flashlight and look for new graves. I feel sorry for his obvious distress. And yours, too. I think you are being a great source of strength for him. I do so hope that they are not deceiving him. If they are, what a cruel thing to do.<p>Estes
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Just wondering....does your H know for sure that he's been talking to OW's mother? Could it possibly be a friend of OW's?<p>I can't help but feel that this is some elaborate hoax designed to get your H to OW's city so she can start things back up again.<p>I hope that if it is, your H is strong enough to turn tail and run straight back to you. Right now, it sounds as if he is in quite an emotional state. If it is a hoax, I hope it backfires BIG TIME!!<p>BTW, around our parts, an obituary is usually published within a day or two of the death date, in this case a day or two after a stillbirth...or as soon as the funeral home sends the info out to the papers.<p>[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Lady Clueless ]</p>
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