sailorman,,, i would first like to express my thanks to you and your fellow servicemen for the extreme sacrifice you are all making being away from your loved ones so that we may feel safe in our homes with ours. <p>you mentioned in your reply post earlier that the feelings i went through during fh's pregnancy and grace's delivery were very similar to your own. you then said that you were able to except abbi as your own when you and tigger took her home from the hospital. my question is "what was it that made it possible for you to find that peace in your heart and exceptance of the situation at hand in what sounds like a matter of hours?"<p>best wishes and prayers and may you return home to your families in Gods speed,
pops

Pops,<p>I don't know if Sailorman is going to be able to get to a computer that he can access the internet any time soon. I just wanted to let you know that I am going to copy this and send it to him via email. I will let you know when he gets a chance to reply.<p>Tigger

Pops,<p>Sailorman said that he should be able to respond on Wed, when they are in port. Just thought I'd let you know, so we can keep this near the top for him.<p>Tigger

tigger,, thanks so much for passing this post to your husband. i will look forward to his reply on wednesday. hope all is going well for all of yours.

UP, UP, UP For Sailorman<p>Sailorman is going to try to respond in the next 24 hrs. Not sure exactly when, but he will try.<p>Tigger<p>Hi Honey, I miss you [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi everybody.<p>I had a similar situation when my ex-wife got pregnant by OM.<p>I bonded and started loving OC when he was around 4 months old. He was having an upper respiratory infection and coughing so much that my xW couldn't sleep and asked me if I could babysitt him for a few hours. He was small and vulnerable that at that moment I fell in love with him and still love him as though he were my own flesh and blood.<p>I pray that my xW does not die for a long time because OM, who is jealous that his C loves me more than he, will surely prevent his S from having contact with his sisters (my daughters).<p>It's funny how an inocent child that did not choose the way he came into this world can, in some ways, help mend the broken heart of a BS.<p>Joe<p>[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

bumping,bumping, bumping

Pops,
I must tell you that while I accept Abbi in what seems like hours, the hours (2 to be exact) we spent in the delivery room were the most emotionally intense hours of my life, I am quite sure the nurses in the room with us wondered what was going on. Also I did a lot of soul seaching in the 2 days Abbi and W were in the hospital.(I took care of the other two) By the time she came home I knew that she would never know her sperm donor dad(using the term dad loosely). That being the biggest factor during the whole pregnancy. One thing that I am sure you know is that tigger and I have been through hell and back in the 16.5 years we have been together and this was not something I could let ruin our marriage. At the same time while I am once again on deployment not a day goes by that I don't think about what happened the last two times I was gone. I think tigger and I have learned our lessons. God's grace is sufficient!!!! I guess what it all comes down to is the child is the completely innocent in all of this and deserves to have a Mother and Father that truly love and care for them. I hope this will help you in your pursuit for peace. I pray God's grace and peace in your life. <p>
Hey there honers!!! I miss you too!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Sailorman59 ]</p>

Bumping up for Pops. Not sure if you've read it yet. Just got a call from Sailorman, and he was wondering if I had read his response, and I thought I'd bump it on up. Hope this helps you understand more what you are going through and that your feelings are quite normal.<p>Tigger

tigger and sailorman,,, i was haveing comp. trouble but i did read sailorman's response. i have been very busy with work and kids and haven't been able to write back. <p>his answer has helped me see things a little clearer. as i also decided (about a month ago), that i was not going to let this guy ruin my marriage. i havr e just been trying to figure out how to move past some of these ugly emotions. knowing that i want our marriage to last yet trying to rekindle old feelings that i once had for fh has been difficult. <p>a couple more questions this time for both or either of you. what changes if any did you make in order to help each other build the trust in your relationship back? i know that better communication was a must but was there anything else? Example; i have always wanted fh house to come and welcome me home from work. kind of let me know she's glad to see me. or have her come and cuddle up with me more instead of me always seemingly to have to go to her. <p>have to go to little league practice so i will write more later.<p>thanks, pops

Pops,<p>Have you and FH filled out the Emotional Needs questionair (SP?) that the Harley's have put on this site? Both things that you have mentioned speak to the emotional need for affection. So, we have identified one EN that FH could meet better. Both things you mentioned are small changes that it seems to me FH should have little trouble fulfilling. It is not a huge change to make.<p>Please also remember that you are early in the recovery process. Most BS don't see real changes in their feelings for at least a year and for many it is about two years. I heard one couple on this site whose marriage counselor suggested "Fake it till you make it." Act warm and loving until those feelings return.<p>MJ

Pops, <p>Well, I am going to do two things. As Sailorman has said before, I do know him pretty well, so I will sort of answer for him, but I am also going to email him your questions, as he won't be able to get back to the internet cafe thing before he gets home. But, I am also going to copy your questions and email them to him, along with my answers, to see if he has anything to add to what I said.<p>One thing that struck me was your mention of her greeting you when you come home. That has always been one of Sailorman's pet peeves with me. I do admit that looking back through the years, I didn't appreciate that he was coming home to me! I kind of took it for granted! It took my idiocy and almost loosing him to open my eyes that, YES, I should get off my lazy butt and greet him when he would get home from work! Even now, I can feel the excitement that I would get, after D-day, when I would hear the truck, then later, the motorcycle pull into the driveway! As to what you can do to tell FH how important this is, I don't know. It is something that came to me on it's own! The only thing that Sailorman did was stay with me.<p>For the second half of your example, for us it wasn't the cuddling, it was the sex. I know this is going to be hard to believe, as I did have an A that produced a child, but for some reason I have always had an aversion to sex! Pile on top of that the fact that I loose my sex drive while I'm pregnant, and you have a very hard test for Sailorman during my pregnancy, and a few months after Abbi was born! I don't know if FH has any such problems, or she may not even know if she does have them! For me, it was time and patience from Sailorman! Occasionally, he would comment, which did hurt pretty bad. I would literally pray to God to even give me the slightest feeling for sex, but I was still, sub-consciencly(sp), clinging to that aversion! For that to change, it took Sailorman to have the patience that God gave him, and the understanding. I have to admit, that I am now chomping at the bit for him to come home! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As for the trust that needed/needs to be rebuilt, well, I would have to say that at least one phone call a day when he was at work, both for him to check up on me, or vice versa was a start. Also, him coming home for lunch, as we live very close to the base, almost every day. And, of course, the communication. We also see that a lot of our problems were from turning our backs on the church! I'm not going to bible thump here, but looking back on the past 13 yrs of marriage, and the major problems occured when we didn't have a strong church family! The first sunday that we went back to church after D-day, we were both crying both during the worship songs and the sermon! It seemed as if there was no one else in the auditorium but the pastor, ourselves and God!<p>In summation, I think, and this is going to be hard, that you need to give her some time, when it comes to the cuddling. Sit down with her, tell her that you want to talk about where your marriage is right now, and where you want it to be. Understand, also, that it may not get back to where it was when you first got married, but it can be even better! Your original love was young, and you have lived a full life, so far, so it is going to be different. But, it can be just as wonderful, if not better! I know that the love I feel for Sailorman is different than when we were first dating, or even just married. It is more of a true appreciation for all he does for our family, and for me! But, that had to come from what I thought I was going to loose and my recommitment to serving my Lord and Savior!<p>I guess what I am saying is that it took time, patience and trust in God to help us repair the damage we had done to our marriage. And, as Sailorman stated, he thinks about what happened the last two times he was on deployment, as do I, so it takes a while for those feelings to go away! But, it is also normal to feel that way after such a betrayal. The thing you need to work on yourself, is the forgetting. I know, almost impossible, but as you fill all those corners where "it" lurks with new happy memories, it will come. It is something you can't force to dissapear, cause then, it just grows, as you dwell on it in trying to make yourself forget! I have found that when it creeps out of the ever shrinking corner, I do something else, or think of the happier times we've had since D-day! <p>Well, I am going to end my rambling, but if you need any clarification, or have further quuestions, I would be willing to help out some more. Tell FH that I am thinking of her.<p>Tigger

hello tigger,
i thought i would reply to some of the comments concerning me and my relationship to pops. i am trying very hard to be the best wife i can be, but sometimes it is emotionally trying--pops has told me that he doesnt feel the love he use to have for me and that i am not physically attractive to him, even though i just had the baby 6 weeks ago and am only 15 pounds away from my original weight, i have been trying to listen for him when he comes home, lots of times i am upstairs and dont hear him, yet he will come home and go straight into his office and i wont even know that hes home, so it makesme feel like he doesnt care. he has told me that hedoesnt look forward to coming home most of the time. the other evening i was out with my oldest daughter planning for her wedding and he was out with oursons buying shoes, i thought we were going to meet at home for dinner, but when i got back he had dropped the boys off and had gone to the movies. he never wants to go out with me anymore because of grace, i know i have no right but this has hurt me deeply. i love him so much, i just dont know what to do. i am going up to him and touching him, hugging and so forth. but the more i know how he feels, the uglier i feel. i am veryinsecure whenhe is around other women that he has made comments about their beauty. i am not trying to be vain but i have always felt that i was goodlooking, but now that is all crumbling away, i guess in other words how can you feel sexy when you know he doesnt look at you that way anymore---im sorry this proballydpoesnt make any sense, the baby is crying and i will try to get my thoughts together and write to you later

Full House,<p>I am sorry to hear that you now feel this way about yourself. Believe it or not, I can understand both sides here, and it is something that is going to be VERY difficult if you and Pops are to get your marriage back. <p>What you are going to need to do is be understanding about what Pops is going through, mentally and emotionally, right now. If I remember correctly, Grace is "different" from the other children(I feel silly saying that as some of them are much older) by "race"(I hate that word!) and that is going to be one of the hardest hurdles for Pops to get over! Not only does he see this new baby as a reminder, but how she looks adds another kick to his gut. I can see in his posts that he truely does want to be able to love Grace, but I also tend to see that he is holding on to his anger. Unfortunately, that is something that he is going to need to deal with by himself. There is nothing specific you can do to change that for him. He needs to work with God to get that forgivness, as that is the only one who can help him right now.<p>As for meeting him when he gets home, does he arrive near the same time each day? Maybe you could plan to be downstairs around that time each day. Or even somewhere near his office at that time. It is something that you may need to do for many weeks before there are any outward changes. Don't just try it a couple times, and then give up because you don't see any change in his attitude. He has been severly hurt by your actions, and that is a wound that takes time to heal! I still tend to walk on eggshells at times with Sailorman, and Abbi is almost a year old!<p>When you do touch, kiss, try to cuddle, with Pops, how is your body language? Do you seem to be forcing yourself to do these things? Are you "alone" when you do these things? For now, with Grace being such a trigger for Pops, maybe you should try these things while she is sleeping in another room. I'm not sure how to help you in this area. Like I said, it took me a long time for my own self forgivness to allow myself to be intimate with Sailorman again! He had forgiven me long before I had forgiven myself.<p>I hope I helped. I understand about Grace keeping you pretty busy, but I hope that you have time to at least read this. Look forward to hearing from you again.<p>Love,<p>Tigger<p>PS, Pops, I haven't sent this to Sailorman yet! It was a busy weekend, and I actually forgot to email him a couple times. I will get it off to him today.

tigger,
yes grace is half hispanic, but looks almost identical to my 10 year old at this age-ask pop about this, i think it surprised him. i am curious to what he would say to you. i really dont see her looking any different or standing out from the other kids

Hello,
I just wanted to say that my H is hispanic and none of my three kids look like they are hispanic. They have the same skin tone as me. When my two daughters were born they were dark like my H, but then there skin turn lighter like mine and their dark hair turn lighter like mine. My 7 month old son was light skin and has lighter hair like me. <p>Dawn

Hi All,<p>Looks like a pretty sensible crowd on this area. For Pops, don't forget that the child is innocent of any indiscretion of the adults. A child to OM is like adopting the child to H. (I know as I have been there and done that many years ago)<p>To the ladies, just remember that your H not only loves you, he really loves you or they would not still be there. It takes one to two years for the trust and full intimacy to return to previous levels but then your love and affection to each other keeps growing and exceeds any previous love and affection that you have both known before.<p>When my wife strayed, I was guilty of not giving her anywhere near the attention to sustain a loving relationship. My commitment to work and social events with the mates was such that she thought I had taken another lover as well.<p>To repair the relationship took time and dedication to the cause, as well as excepting the child as my son. (Note the lover is merely the sperm donor and will never be a father/dad). In law the lover does not even have a right to see the child and can not even prove that he is the sperm donor as parents can deny tests being taken from the child.<p>I make it sound a bit easy in the abovementioned text, however I would have to say that I went to hell and back. I did get back to heaven though. When your wife is open and will talk about the indiscretion, half the battle is won. Do not forget that the wife still chose to live with you. Husbands need to improve their own demonstrations of love for their wives. After our incident, I would come home from work and look for my wife, and even though tired and stressed our after work, I would give her a smile and a hug whilst greeting her. I found a kiss being an optional extra at this time however you know when a kiss is appropriate.<p>Guilt is not only the W in these cases, as the H must have contributed in some way. I do not like the term guilt however as this type of thing is an incident that contributes to our knowledge and makes us better people as well as enriching our relationship.<p>Many wives, like mine, feel neglected although we males do not realise this. To this end they are merely after companionship and understanding from another male. This sort of affair can turn into love however.<p>The problem that I see with marriage is that we are not given a booklet on the roles and responsibilities of a husband and wife and then required to sit an exam to see if we read this booklet. Passing the exam means that we get the marriage licence. Pretty controversial statement I know :-)<p>It is important that you put all your affairs on the table at this time. Discuss them and why they happened. Make sure that you finish affairs and or contact with other persons. Forgive or at least try to understand each other whilst accepting that we are all human. When you have worked through all of this, let the matter be closed and it will fade into the back of your mind. If you love the child, there is never a need to tell them that they were the product of a sperm donor.<p>I do admire you for working through this stressful time and not just jumping out of the marriage.<p>All the best,
Fred
PS. My son is now an adult and we still have a very close father son relationship.

Fred, Fred, I almost thought I was reading a post from myself for minute. You are so insightful!!! For months after I ended my affair I tried and tried to understand how I could have done the things I had done. I knew that through it all I had never stopped loving my H which was very confusing to me. They always say that there has to be something missing in a marriage for an affair to happen and even then I could't figure out what that might be. Then I found this site and lo and behold everything became crystal clear. My "lovebank" was so overdrawn at the time and the OM just kept on making these huge deposits. This affair was most definately 99% emotional. It is so important to get to the root of the A in order to insure that it does't happen again. That is half the battle right there. Of course it also helps to have a remarkable H like I do, and by the way, you sound like quite a H youself.

Want It Back,<p>Thanks for your nice words. I think your H will probably be as happy as I with OC, but I think you should keep contact with OM to minimum possible. I think I would have had a lot of problems if OM was involved in any way.<p>You are right about the depleted love bank, but most young husbands do not realise this fact and do not see that they are neglecting their wives. I suspect that most wives do not realise what the problem is prior to the Affair either or they might have tried to do something about this fact.<p>The A really matured me in a short space of time. I even realised and accepted my contribution to the A albeit passive. My only hope is that others can read about our success stories and follow the lead. Do not expect too much in under 12 months from D-Day though as there are many bridges to rebuild and pain of both partners to recover.<p>If you make it to 2 years after D-day, you have won the battle with the A fading into insignificance.<p>It may have been a hard lesson but you have gained in knowledge and a resulting increased depth of relationship with your partner. I somehow think that these lessons were meant to be and not just an accident as a marriage with neglect will ultimately fail even without OP involvement.<p>All the best,
Fred