I've been lurking here for weeks and after reading some of the anguished postings from those who are attempting visitation with their OC, decided to tell my story in hopes that someone will find some inspiration.<p>When my son was twenty years old, some friends came by to visit him one night. One of them was a young girl who was obviously pregnant. When they left, he told me that he had become close friends with this girl and, in fact, had a date with her for the upcoming weekend. I was a little surprised by that, I admit. Most young men his age are not too thrilled by the idea of dating a pregnant woman. They went on the date and afterwards they were inseparable. It was just like any other dating relationship, except for the fact that she was pregnant. <p>I didn't learn most of the details until much later. She was also twenty years old and pregnant by a MM that she had a brief relationship with. He was separated from his wife at the time and later was divorced, but he already had three children by that wife and wasn't interested in being "daddy" again. He dumped her when he learned she was pregnant and as far as I know, she never saw him again.<p>When her child was born, my son was in the delivery room. His name was put on the birth certificate as the father. By that time they'd been seeing each other for five months and were in love. We had several long talks before he signed the birth certificate, and he had a full understanding that he was going to be a father to this child and that he was obligating himself to child support until the child was of age. I warned him that if he got tired of &#8220;playing daddy&#8221; after a few months, that was just too bad. That once his name was on that birth certificate, that was IT. Final, and irrevocable. He signed it, with full knowledge of what he was getting into. I was also at the hospital the day this little boy was born. I held him when he was less than five minutes old and I fell in love.<p>Today, that little boy is five years old and he's the light of our lives. He has the most beautiful blue eyes and the sweetest disposition. My son married his mother when he was a year old and he was there, dressed in a little tuxedo, being held by the best man, who is also my husband. My son and his wife added a daughter to their household two years later and they are now expecting their third child. Though he is not my biological grandson, my heart says he is MINE. I feel just as strong a bond with him as I do my natural grandchild. His biological father has never been a part of his life and never will be. This child looks like my son, he acts like him and people that don't know the whole story would never imagine that they are not blood-related.<p>My point is, by co-parenting a child born of an EMA, by having visitation with that child, is it possible that you may be keeping the OW from moving on with her life? That you may be keeping the child from bonding with a potential father as my grandson has done with my son? It seems to me that by doing this, you are keeping the relationship between your H and the OW alive. The child support is another matter. Though my DIL never wanted or asked for CS from the MM she was involved in, I know many OW aren't as lucky as she was and they need the CS. So, pay the CS until the child is of age, but please think, before you commit yourselves to a relationship with the OC, not only for the sake of yourself and your marriage, but that of the OC. There may be another man like my son out there, who will take that child and raise it as his own - and your presence in the child's life may make that impossible!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My point is, by co-parenting a child born of an EMA, by having visitation with that child, is it possible that you may be keeping the OW from moving on with her life? <hr></blockquote><p>That's an interesting point that you wrote...I think in our case, being kind of a ONS (one night stand kinda deal) that would be one of the things we did consider....although some men who want to stay out of ow's lives are kind of prevented when CS issues are there and the OW will stop at nothing to try to "make" them be a part...it's rough all around. I think it may be harder if the MM's affair lasted in the "years" department and they feel they want or need to be involved...all situations are different. There really aren't any easy answers and no one wins in a situation like that...*sigh*<p>I'm happy for you and your family and congrats on Grandbaby #3! I wish you and your family the best and thanks for sharing!<p>Hugs,
Twiisty

Hello,
I just wanted to point out this site is for marriage builder. Please read the guidelines about this site.

Hello Blue,<p>I read your post and thought is was a refreshing new perspective. <p>However, I do have one question....what happens if the child grows up and starts to ask questions about their biological father? Let's say for argument's sake someone slips up and tells the child that 'Daddy is not daddy afterall'.<p>I'd like to think that most children (including my own adopted son who was conceived and born of the very same circumstance) will grow up and be grateful for the fact that they had a loving mom and dad to care for them. <p>But that nagging feeling of (daddy didn't love me enough) must somehow linger on into their adult lives. <p>Further, I don't think our involvement w/ xow will keep her from going on w/ her life. So far it seems that we're lucky. We keep contact to a minimum and I am the primary contact person. It's only been a little while and based on what we've read on this site that may change. She may start to act up and at that time we'll have to reassess our involvement. We sincerely hope she does move on, and find a husband that will love the little girl as his own. But just like I can't replace her bio-mother, this future man can't replace her bio-father.<p>Besides, what better legacy is there to leave a child than selfless love and accountability? If she one day asks the question, Dad, why aren't you and mom together, my husband or her mom would hopefully tell her the the ugly painful truth. Not to hurt her, but to help her see that as humans, we make mistakes, but what seperates the boys from the men and the girls from the women is accountability.<p>I applaud your son for loving the baby as his own, but wouldn't your grandson's life be doubly rich if he had two dads that loved him?

DAWN!!! Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma'a story is every bit as part of this site as any other regarding a happy ending to an impossible situation. Their family had a wonderful solution that worked well for them and could work for other OW's who lurk here. Do not chastise those who come in peace offering a wonderful story that could make a difference to someone here on this site, or give inspiration or well-meaning advice. I for one, would drop to my knees in gratitude if a man would come along and marry OW and raise OC as his own and give OC a wonderful family life in a two parent household. I should be so lucky. The OC should be so lucky. It's a win-win for everyone involved.<p>MATTHEW!!!<p>Biology has NOTHING to do with parenting. The exceptional parent is the one who is there for the child, through thick and thin, raising and loving it as his/her own...adoptive parents do it all the time. My stepdad did it and my loyalties lie no where else. My son has asked whatever happened to his bio-dad and while he has some heartburn over it, it certainly has not debilitated him and in fact, "no contact" has made his life better since he is worth a hundred of his worthless father and was MUCH better off without him.<p>Life is hard and unfair and crappy. For everyone. Finding out you have a less than stellar parent who is not involved may be painful for a time but the child can get through it and over it if everyone else around that child stops whining about how they are such poor little waifs who have been abandoned. We always told our son there was nothing wrong with him, that he was perfectly wonderful and that his bio-dad was the big loser here...he was the one who lost out, not my son, who had the love and devotion of my father for all his life as his dad. <p>If a kid has a family who loves them and would walk through fire for them, they will be OK. To mewl about how unfortunate they are to not have their bio-parent around is setting them up for self pity. It just doesn't need to be like that. They need to be told how lucky they are to have the wonderful people around them that love them and care for them.<p>If only all OC's could end up like Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma's grandson, it would be a blissful world.<p>Everyone, stop looking at the glass as half empty when it is so full...of love and devotion in many cases.<p>Thank you, Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma, for your invaluable input of allowing the OC to have a wonderful life free of strife and confusion instead of having the bio-parent's often unwanted involvement that hampers the growth of the family...everyone's family.<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

catnip,
Thank you for writing what I wanted to say but would've have put it nearly as well as you did.<p>Amen sista'
You go, girl [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Grandma, I wish all OC stories could have as happy an ending as yours. Some XOW are not reasonable or rational people and it's a shame.<p>J,
in recovery 3+ years

Catnip, as good ole Ronald Reagan would have said it "There you go again.."<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
If a kid has a family who loves them and would walk through fire for them, they will be OK. To mewl about how unfortunate they are to not have their bio-parent around is setting them up for self pity. It just doesn't need to be like that. They need to be told how lucky they are to have the wonderful people around them that love them and care for them.<p>If only all OC's could end up like Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma's grandson, it would be a blissful world<hr></blockquote><p>And woman, you keep on goin!!!!!<p>As God had a covenant with Abraham and asked him to send Hagar and her son away to listen to Abraham's wife, Sarah, and God provided oc with water when there was none so he wouldn't die, so shall God provide for all oc's in this manner if ow truly believe in God's word.<p>It's the only mention of oc in the Bible.<p>God provided oc to be an archer of many nations. No mention there after of Abraham having doubts of sending them away.<p>God told Abraham to trust HIM and if he did he would be blessed.<p>So is my h blessed and tells me almost daily he could never live w/o me.<p>We followed Gods path together and here we are, others may walk a different path and find the same peace we have.<p>I thank HIM daily for our healing and allowing us to flourish under him.<p>To each their own and may you always be here to speak for so many of us who cannot put into words the heartfelt messages we have.<p>Madame "QUEEN", you now wear the watchdog uh er watchcat Crown of jewels!<p>love and mew mew,
Debi<p>ps, h and I have added 2 more kitties to our cat family since November. All 3 are cute and loving females. My oldest is 16! We enjoy their company so much.....ahhhhhh...peace!!!!

Catnip,
You wrote:<p>DAWN!!! Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma'a story is every bit as part of this site as any other regarding a happy ending to an impossible situation. Their family had a wonderful solution that worked well for them and could work for other OW's who lurk here. Do not chastise those who come in peace offering a wonderful story that could make a difference to someone here on this site, or give inspiration or well-meaning advice. I for one, would drop to my knees in gratitude if a man would come along and marry OW and raise OC as his own and give OC a wonderful family life in a two parent household. I should be so lucky. The OC should be so lucky. It's a win-win for everyone involved.DAWN!!! Blue Eyed Boy's Grandma'a story is every bit as part of this site as any other regarding a happy ending to an impossible situation. Their family had a wonderful solution that worked well for them and could work for other OW's who lurk here. Do not chastise those who come in peace offering a wonderful story that could make a difference to someone here on this site, or give inspiration or well-meaning advice. I for one, would drop to my knees in gratitude if a man would come along and marry OW and raise OC as his own and give OC a wonderful family life in a two parent household. I should be so lucky. The OC should be so lucky. It's a win-win for everyone involved.<p>I totally agree.<p>I would do anything if OW met someone to adopt OC.<p>I guess from the crashers here lately. I guess I am beening causious.<p>Dawn

Dear BEB Grandma,<p>You are a very blessed woman to have a son so young who was willing to take on such a responsibility and have it work out so well. <p>I have been dealing with the OC issue for a very long time and I personally agree with every word you said. The OW in my H's life was "in love" with him. She used to child as an excuse to keep her flame burning and although it has been 11 years, she has never married, nor has she ever had a serious relationship. <p>It is sad to see a person who wasted her life pining away for a man who did not love her. My H tried to keep contact with OC in the beginning and has only stopped contact in the past year. I believe that contact kept feeding her fantasy that one day he would leave me and they would be a family.<p>My H cares about the OC, but he has never loved her the way he loves our children. He has never developed a real closeness to and understanding of her. I believe his desire to keep touch with the OC was mostly motivated by selfishness (catering to his own feelings) instead of selflessness (worrying about the OCs feelings).<p>The OC has always felt conflicting feelings and wondered why she is not included in so many family activities. She felt there was something wrong with her and that is why her father was not with her the way he is with our children. <p>I think that our husbands need to examine their motives for keeping their relationships with these children. Child support is mandatory and I would never suggest that a father not support his child. But, I agree with you, grandma, that it is better for a H who knows there is no future with the OW to let her start a new life. She has the possibility to meet someone who will provide the family she wants and, most likely, her child is dreaming of.<p>Your story had a happy ending. I wish others would take a page from your son's book. God bless you all.<p>love,
heavenly<p>[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]</p>

I think when BEBG said that couples who are trying to give their best to an OC could be making it "impossible" for OW to move on with OW's life, that might have struck a nerve. I could see how that strikes a nerve.<p>I agree with everything that catnip said, and I don't think Dawn71 has anything to apologize for at all...<p>The thing is, I have searched MB concepts on dealing with OW/OC issues re: visitation, etc. and there is nothing much, not really.<p>MB instructs WS to sever ALL contact with OW, but when the couple and OW have all AGREED on visitation and have gone through hell in court establishing their entitlements, the BS is the one who is encouraged by Harley to be the go-between.<p>I don't see how being involved in OW/OC's lives to give OC "loving" influence would make it "impossible" for OW to find and marry a nice man like BEBG's son... If the xOW is committed to her new man, and there is mutual respect, then M couple's involvement with OC would be a non-issue.<p>I tend to think that OW oftentimes make it "impossible" to get on with THEIR OWN lives because of continually trying to snag the MM, calling him everytime their kid gets sick, using the OC against the MM to make him feel guilty, competing with BS for MM. To me, THAT is what's "impossible" to deal with! In fact, that is what makes it impossible for some BS's to continue contact with the innocent OC--not the fact that they were not willing.<p>In BEBG's case, the OW walked completely away from MM and that is what many BS's wish their xOW would do. Some MM want to see the kids. Some BS's are okay with that, some are not. It's all based on the Policy of Joint Agreement how the situation gets handled. Some WS's are willing to work together and enforce the POJA, some are not.<p>So no, I don't think the married people make it impossible for OW to get on with her life, I think it's more of the OW making it impossible for the BS and WS to get on with THEIR lives. x-OW in your case, made it extremely easy...

Dear BEBG,<p>I won't repeat my entire story here, but I am on both sides of the OC issue. I am an OC, but I am here because my H had an A and an OC.<p>I was raised by my mother and my dad--not my birth father. My dad invited my Mom back inot their marriage knowing that she was pregnant by another man. He raised me and loved me and I am very grateful. I have seen my birth father just once and he is a shell of who my dad is. I am truly blessed to have my Dad and not my birth father in my life. That said....<p>BTDT is right that the phrase about preventing exOW from getting on with her life stung--a lot! My H and I have made a very careful, very painful decision to have contact with OC. (I have a niece whose father, properly married to my sister, abandoned her and their daughter when my niece was just three-months-old. My niece has talked about not having a father since she was 2.5 years old. No one primed the pump, as Catnip suggested. Niece came up with it on her own and no amount of reassurance would help her let go of the issue. She even took to calling my H "Daddy" for quite a while.) For this reason, we have chosen contact with OC.<p>Nothing would have made Mr J. and I happier than for there to be another man in exOW's life. If he had come along early enough in OC's life and wanted to adopt her, my H would have signed away parental rights in a heart beat. Not *just* to get out from under the onerous child support, but because we felt it would have been in OC's best interest.<p>We made the choice that we did with a great deal of concern, pain and prayer. It has been an even more difficult decision than my decision to continue in this marriage in which I was so totally betrayed. We believe that we have made it out of all the right motives.<p>Whether or not exOW moves on with her life has much more to do with her own psychology than it has to do with our 4x-year-2,000 mile-away visitation with OC. It requires a level of emotional/mental fitness that I am not sure exOW has yet. Everything must be exactly her way--not an attitude conducive to healthy, long-term relationships. This was not her first unhealthy relationship with a married man. At 18 years old, she broke up the marriage of her married 40-year-old teacher. Five years after that, she moved into the middle of our marriage. (Although, no matter how hard she tried, it was my H's responsibility to keep her out of our marriage. I am not excusing him.) I hope and pray, for the sake of all concerned (including OC), that it will be her last foray into someone's marriage.<p>It sounds like you have a wonderful, loving and intelligent daughter-in-law who learned from her mistake and has gone on to lead a happy life as a loving wife to your son and mother to their children. I am very, very happy that your family has had such a teriffic outcome. I wish that could be said for all the rest of us.<p>Just my thoughts.<p>MaryJanes<p>[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</p>

Every child has a right to know where they came from. And as an adoptive parent I learned that in one of eight classes my H and I took to become certified by the state. And I'm sorry, but even in the worst of circumstances I believe (sorry it doesn't fall in line with everyone elses opinions)every bio parent should at least attempt to be a part of their child's life. You said it yourself, life is crappy, and full of twists and turns.<p>I still don't see what's wrong with a child born under these circumstances having two dads/ two moms if you will. Yes, it sucks, but I still believe an example of love (regardless of how convenient it is) is set before the child. It happens every day when couples marry and divorce and remarry. <p>Yes, children are very robust and bounce back from disillusionment quite well, but I would rather the OC in our lives deal with the disillusionment that her bio dad WAS NOT A LOSER, but a man that made a mistake and did everything in HIS power to make sure she doesn't pay for it, regardless of her mother's antics. <p>Besides, we're looking at this from the perspective that the xow will find a prince. What if Mr. Valiant never shows up? Are we back in the not-so-perfect world again of a child growing up in a single-parent home w/ no father to validate who they are? Also, what if xow does find a prince, but he turns out to be a toad? True enough, both scenarios are her fault, but the child suffers, once from being abandoned by her bio-dad and then victimized again by being raised by a toad. What if the second scenario were true, that prince turned to toad. I'd like to think that my H and I were the perfect alternative to life w/ mom and Mr. ribbit.<p>Love....true love does what's right, not what's convenient. And it sees the glass for what it is...a glass with water, regardless to half full or half empty and it takes the sip based on faith.<p>I understand that in our situations 'what's right' is on a case by case basis depending on many things, the xow's behavior for one thing. And if doing what WE FEEL to be right in our case becomes more burdomesome without the benefit of establishing a relationship with the child then we'll have to assess that as needed. <p>I still welcome Blue's perspective. But as it's been stated so often....one size does not fit all.

I'm glad to see the number of replies my post received, and the variety of opinions. To answer some of your questions, when and if my grandson starts to ask questions, he'll be told the truth. This issue was discussed at the time of his birth. My son and his wife will explain to him that his bio dad was a man that she knew only briefly, and that he would not or could not commit to her. He'll be given a name and freedom to contact his bio dad if he wishes.<p>Somehow I don't think he'll want to. Our family bond is too strong, he has too many other people in his life - grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and siblings - that adore him. But we will support him in whatever he wants to do.<p>An interesting side note to this story: a couple of years ago my daughter had a date with a guy she'd met not too long before. He came to her apartment to pick her up and saw a picture of my son, DIL and grandson hanging on her wall. He asked her how she knew the girl in the picture. When she told him that was her SIL, he sort of blushed. She said she really looked at him then, the blue, blue eyes and the curly blonde hair and she KNEW. She told him that she'd changed her mind about going out with him and he left, never to be heard from again. He knows about the child, he's even seen a picture of him, but has never tried to contact him and probably never will. His loss!

Grandma said: He knows about the child, he's even seen a picture of him, but has never tried to contact him and probably never will. His loss! <p>What else would you want the biofather to do??? Would you prefer him to crash into your family and demand to have frequent visitation rights with your grandson? Would that add stability to grandson's life--NO! If he's still dating single women (if he's still married), that's not the kind of influence you'd like in the kids' life. If your grandson has this big loving strong family, what need does he have for Biodad? and if Biodad is struggling in his personal life, what need is there to add your grandson? <p>Most children are wonderful little people and I, as the step-mother to an OC, KNOW that WE are missing out by not getting to raise her. But what children need most is Love and Stability, whatever situation will give them most! That may or may not include bioparent(s). <p>You are condemning MM for not being there, and saying he shouldn't be there, all in the same breath!!! <p>Men are d*mned if they do and d*amned if they don't. <p>Frankly, I'm glad I'm not a man.<p>[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Matthew6:14,15:
<strong>Every child has a right to know where they came from. And as an adoptive parent I learned that in one of eight classes my H and I took to become certified by the state...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi Matthew,
Your points are well-taken, but what about the bio parent who gives up their rights to be involved with the child who ALSO has the right NOT TO BE FOUND.<p>For every BS & WS who has no contact with OC but lives with fear of one day having some strange grown person show up at their front door demanding to know where they came from. My heart goes out to you. No one should have to live with that dreadful thought looming over their heads. ESPECIALLY if they do not wish to be found. It is also a slap in the face to the stepparent who devoted their time and love and money and sacrificed for the OC all the OCs life.<p>Not everyone is at your level of character where you say that they should at least make attempts to contact OC to prove they are repentant for their mistakes. You guys are Christians and I believe that makes a difference in the amount of compassion. OW's attitude is always a factor also.<p>Oh well, may God help us all!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

...to have Happy Endings that is...

Hi Binthere,<p>Thanks for allowing for the diff of opinion. Just one thing....the attempt at contact is not really to prove anything. It's to do the right thing (at least that's how we feel about it). One of the results of doing what we feel to be the right thing is our baby girl MAY one day learn from the mistakes made by her father.
In reality, if you think about it, I'm not too sure it will even matter by the time she's old enough to question and understand.
There will be no 'You're a good dad anyway' reward to give him because if we raise her the right way, she'll never have to know all the sordid painful details of how she came to be. When she's old and wise enough to read between the lines, and understand the dynamics of man/woman relationships, then hopefully she would have already learned about doing the right thing from some simpler lessons in life.<p>No point to prove...just a thought.