Several of you have not posted for a long time. I am hoping and praying it is simply because you have decided to move on and not because times are still difficult.<p>Just letting those who have been gone for a while know that you are sorely missed.<p>Catnip =^^=

Hi Catnip,<p>I haven't written primarily b/c I have been so overwhelmingly busy with work, but also b/c I guess I feel a little guilty b/c I am seriously contemplating filing for divorce - and this is, after all, a marriage builders site. Two weeks ago, my H moved out as per my request, but then he moved back in with the idea of "splitting" the house with me. He wants to work things out. At this point, I do not. I am tired out the emotional drain of this marriage, the mistreatment, the OC issues. I want out. I don't know if I will change my mind or not. I am seriously contemplating filing a "pro se" divorce action. I'm asking myself if I am better off with him or without him, and I think I may be better without him at this time. He is in the stage of begging, pleading, etc., for me to give him another chance, and I am just disinterested. He's been mean to me for too long, and I feel I have put up with too much. I don't want to live this life anymore. It's NOT that I am interested in anybody else - heaven forbid - but I feel like there is a better life out there for me that doesn't include this nightmare that my present life has become. There is simply NO GRATITUDE in my life with h.<p>Anyway, I feel very badly about posting some of this stuff here b/c I worry that it will be too discouraging to the newbies. <p>I am actually teaching a class right now but will try to write a real update when I get a break in the action.
Love to all,
cd

CD,<p>I am sorry to "hear" about how things are for you right now. I've also been wondering how you've been. I don't think you should feel bad about posting, as we all care about you and what is happening in your life! If you are that worried for the "newbies" you could always post in the D'd /D'ing board, and alert those who would be interested that your "stuff" is over there.<p>Looking forward to the "update".<p>Love,<p>Tigger

Dear cd:<p>I am so glad you posted as you have been on my mind for quite a long time. Of course this is Marriage Builders, but your history here is too long and too important to be dismissed by life's alterations and the possiblity of a divorce. The reason I say this is because I know exactly how you feel.<p>Everyone's story is differrent, cd, and since we all have convoluded histories with our spouses, what may seem to be a marriage in distress could help someone new to the site recognize something in your story that they can benefit from. Don't worry about bringing this information here...you need the support and I can tell you first hand, I have had the same feelings you describe.<p>Since mid 1998 until November 2001, I have struggled with the sky high 'ups' and the deepest 'downs' with my husband imaginable, complete with disrespectful judgments and unbelievable cruelty juxtaposed with intense kindness and deep desire for recovery. I came to a point where I just couldn't take it one more minute, either. I was ready to move on and looked forward to getting away from the insanity. I felt numb, I felt any love I had for him drift away.<p>We are together now but I watch for signs. I am wary but guardedly optimistic. I have to admit I don't feel for my husband as I once did because of trust issues. Not that he would betray me...believe it or not, that is the least of my worries, but I worry that I can't trust him to be consistent or can't trust him not to turn on me again.<p>Even though he has been pretty wonderful these past four months, it's only been four months. After three years of painful emotional abuse and torment, four months is nothing much to build on. Perhaps after four years, I can relax a little. Ironically, that's when the other shoe would probably drop...after I've been lulled into a false sense of security.<p>I worry that his unpredictable behavior will be difficult for me to live with. I worry that he will drink again and get crazy although he has been sober a couple months. I think.<p>I have built in some safeguards into my life to prevent that from happening by having everything put in my name and taking a job that provides a home for me as part of my pay. That way, if he ever turns on me again, I at least will have the security of a place to live, a house I am renting out and building equity in and can take care of myself without needing his income.<p>I can go either way, cd. I can take this last chance with him at little cost to me because I am finally stronger than I have ever been and since the respect for him and the love for him has diminished somewhat over the past couple years, I wouldn't mourn long if at all, if he was gone. I'd probably feel relief. I don't know until it happens.<p>In the meantime, I will keep trying to build the marriage and be glad I am already divorced and have some financial protection.<p>Lately he has been mentioning we remarry and get wills. Neither option is appealing to me and I am stalling and will continue to stall until I feel a level of trust has been restored. I am just so suspicious after all I have been through. It wasn't that long ago that his behavior to me was so brutal, it broke my heart all over again. But, that last time he did it also freed me from feeling desperate to keep him. I no longer care about any of it as I once did, and that alone is freedom to me.<p>The bad part about all this is that I am such a traditionalist, that being 'in charge' doesn't feel good to me. I hate to take away a man's dignity by calling the shots, but now it is down to self-preservation. I am uncomfortable with mandating how and what we are going to do about issues. I would like to enter into a POJA with him, but his judgment is still so bipolar in so many ways. The good news is that he himself recognizes it (the bipolar behavior and illogical thinking) and acquiesces to my judgment which is and has been logical and sound. It doesn't mean that he isn't building some resentment about it to have it erupt later in an ugly scene, but that's a chance I have to take if I have him move in with me. This is what I struggle with and have a measure of fear over.<p>I often wonder if his intense show of remorse and regret is an act. Now I am suspicious of everything he says and does. If he is kind to me, I wonder what the catch is, what his ulterior motive is...I never ever thought that way before. This is something new I have just developed over the past six to nine months.
Lately I wonder if really does love me as he is forever declaring, or just needs me and feels vulnerable. God, I'd hate to just be needed. <p>He tells me constantly how beautiful he thinks I am and how smart and kind he thinks I am when I am thinking suspicious thoughts of him. He couldn't be more loving or kinder to me or unselfish. Could this sudden change of behavior be real? Could he really have had a spiritual awakening? Or is it a ploy? Does he really feel these things for me or is it a lie? I never would have doubted any of this a year ago even though we were going through some terrible times. I attributed so much of everything that happened to his illness and hung onto the way he was for all of our marriage. Eighteen wonderful years was nothing to sneeze at<p>This whole affair really, really did a number on me...not just the betrayal but the way I was treated so long after. Kind of like aversion therapy. If he would have had a few rocky months after all this blew up, I would have, could have understood. But, taking so long to resolve his feelings and putting me through so much turmoil for so long, did something terrible to me and my feelings for the marriage. He played the game waaaaay too long. Now it is all about me, I suppose. Maybe that's why he is so attracted to me.<p>I've been reluctant to post this stuff before because of the very reasons you feel you shouldn't post. But, hey, that's life...or life for us anyway.<p>So, cd, if any of this sounds familar, this is what I've been struggling with this past year. I need guidance. We are supposed to move into this place April 3. I keep thinking this is something I should do alone.<p>Is your husband proposing you divide the house and live like the state already thinks you are living? Where is he living now? Is he calling and coming around all the time or is he leaving you alone?<p>I'll keep you in my prayers. Please keep me in yours. Keep in touch.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<p>Just thought I would drop in an say hi. I too am still struggling with there ever being real trust and love. My H was difficult to love before the incident, so part of me wonders if I truly still love or I am just here because it is a life. The alternative is not what I want, struggling as a single mom. But I wonder if one can live their life knowing that they don't ever feel true love from their spouse anymore. <p>The OC/OW issue has been settled as far as legally and we have no daily problems. But I don't know if in my heart the foundation of the marriage can ever be repaired. I think that my H goes throught the motions of our life also. I still wonder when I don't have sex if he would go elsewhere and complain that his wife isn't giving it up. It is like if he asks more than twice in an evening and I don't automatically say yes, I wonder if he thinks about others. <p>I truly feel that I am prepared for him to cheat again, like I expect it. He doesn't shower me with love. His career is very time consuming and I always wonder what is going on in his life all day. He still says of course nothing will ever happen. I try to be confident.<p>So my two cents I feel at times that a marriage is never going to heal, that trust can never fully return, there is always a little doubt. I am struggling along with my pregnancy, and hit my 2 year dday mark a couple weeks ago. Life is pretty much back to normal, except for those doubts that never seem to go away.<p>babstr.

Oh Babstr<p>I am so sorry to hear you sounding so depressed. It's so hard to come back from something like this. I mean, there ARE times when the recovery brings about some miraculous things like a closeness you never had before, or an awakening of how deeply you can love or do love someone or it can just forever cause you to live with doubts. I don't think any of us ever escapes living with some doubts and damaged trust.<p>But, that's the paradox. On one hand, we had a renewed and intense reconnection, then a few months later, more coldness and rejection out of the blue. Later, then another recommitment and desperate desire to begin again, then another crisis causing estrangement...and so on and so on. I think this happened to us three times over the past 3.5 years. Each time the trust level dropped, the doubts loomed larger and I felt less. It is only natural.<p>I remember my Grandfather telling me shortly after my husband came home after the fling saying, "You know, Cat, nothing will ever be the same." And I remeber thinking, "Well, maybe not, but it can be better." And it was for a time. It actually was better than ever. But, ultimately he was right, nothing was ever really the same again and never would be. Which, in some cases, this was good.<p>But, I think these affairs impact the Wayward as much as it does us. It breaks their heart, too, that they could do something so terrible to the one person they love the most and ruin the best thing in their lives, their marriage. If they had integrity and self respect and core beliefs and moral convictions, what they have done to themselves is almost impossible for themselves to accept and forgive themselves because they have violated their principles and lost respect for themselves as well. So, sometimes they self-sabotage and destroy the one thing they want more than anything in the world. And if the self hate and anger keeps happening, take sometimes take it out on us, causing us another set back.<p>Life is so short. We only go around once. I had almost 18 phenomenal years of marriage with my husband, so I am willing to stick around to see now if we can fix this one last time.<p>I am in a state of flux and I completely understand where you are at and how you feel. I didn't know your husband was difficult to love to begin with, Babstr, and this troubles me. I do know that the people who are the most difficult to love are the ones who need it the most.<p>"Feelings" are so tenuous and changable, Babstr. Sometimes when we are pregnant or emotional, or having a change of heart, our chemistry changes, we send off signals to our spouse telling them how we feel about them without having to say a word. I hope you try to look at your husband's assets instead of his liabilities and try to love him in spite of the annoying traits and habits. It's funny, until now, I have always overlooked my husband's shortcomings, but now they scream at me from the top of their lungs and I notice them all. I probably wouldn't be like this if he hadn't taken so long to come around.<p>Love is a choice and I struggle now with allowing myself to open my heart and love him again as I once did. I choose to try for now, and I choose to love him as much as I can while still protecting myself from his mercurial behaviors. What I used to find interesting, entertaining and exciting is now frightening.<p>Babstr, your baby is on his or her way and you have your little daughter and your husband to make a great family. Don't 'expect' your husband to do this to you, or to himself again. I don't want you to set yourself up for that kind of thinking. I am praying for you and your family, Babstr, that eventually, in time, these doubts and trust issues will repair themselves and that you and your husband will come to a new level of understanding and a deeper connection.<p>God bless....it's so good to talk to you again even with this shytty topic.<p>Have you picked out some names for baby? Do you know if it is a boy or a girl yet or do you want to be surprised? Is your daughter excited? How are you feeling?<p>Maybe once we are all out of gloomy March and the sun comes up, all our attitudes will shift into a more positive mode.<p>Take good care of yourself and keep in touch. I want to know all about that baby.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

catnip,<p>hello. I have the sonogram tomorrow. I seem to more nervous this time versus with my daughter. Just want to make sure everything is ok. Yes, I will be finding out what it is, I can't stand waiting for that info. Happygirl and I are within a week of each other's due dates. I think she is wanting to be surprised. I still have not told my daughter that I am pregnant. We are planning on telling her when we know what it is. But she is 3 1/2 and will want to know if the baby is coming instantly. So far I have escaped 21 weeks without her finding out. <p>I will keep you up to date. Talk to you later. <p>babstr.<p>ps. Once again thank you for the words of encourgement. You always know just what to say. I think being pregnant has been hard. The Ow was pregnant the same time as me before. So I am nervous. Also in June my H is returning to the same military base for his annual training where the drunken one night stand happened. That is really making me uncomfortable. Like returning to the scene of the crime.

Hi Catnip,
I am at work and don't have much time.<p>Like all of you here I still have very bad days brought on by myself,and my worry.<p>All of the "what if's" Babster said.<p>I promised my h to quit coming here because h thinks it reinforces the bad memories. I agree for the most part. The rest of it these 16 mos. after d-day is brought on by triggers. <p>I wish I could have therapy to allow me to just forget.....~sigh~<p>Granddaughter on the way in weeks!!!<p>I hope we work together as we have on re-dedicating our lives to each other. H honestly tries. I hope I can trust again!<p>For the most part my life is kind of normal.<p>Just had to let you know all is as well as can be expected.<p>love
Debi

Oh Gem! A granddaughter. I am so happy for you.<p>I certainly understand the issues surrounding whether coming here can reinforce bad chi, but overall, I don't think coming here does that unless it turns into a bytch fest or something. You have to go somewhere for support, Gem. I hope you are getting all you need.<p>You are in my thoughts, Honey. Stay strong, and I am glad you lurk.<p>Catnip =^^=

Aaaaah, yes, the "scene of the crime". I remember having to spend six days in the same hotel (scene of the crime) with my husband while we were in court in NY. Very strange, yet somehow it empowered me. I wish you could join your husband while he is away.<p>So, Babstr, let us know if we are to "Think Pink" or "Go Blue".<p>Thinking of you.<p>Catnip =^^=