Catnip,
I am BOTH, ex-OW and WS. So YAH I DO UNDERSTAND FROM THE WS PERSPECTIVE! I am sure I understand WS a WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN YOU. As well I know what my relationship was with OM and believe me, you'd be in shock if you think A is all about sex! You'd really be afraid for M and yet better able to salvage it & provide spouse with ALL the love points necessary, if you understood and stopped believing us WS only want sex! We could have got it at home catnip...
We all are here to make our lives better. Each time I have offered someone such as Justine MY ADVICE, you come along and criticize it. MY Advice is just that, my own perspective on things from MY experience as WS and OW. You and many other BS believe and try so hard to convince yourselves that A's are about sex, screwing, however you want to term it. WAKE UP, so, so, so many are not about that at all! So you continue to remain clueless catnip! As does poor Gemini. Sex may come into the relationship but often that is not how it starts. Some A's go on for months before there is intimacy at that level. OW and OM are so much more to eachother and until you get that, you will remain in the dark!
Yes, rebuilding marriages is a great thing. That is why we are All HERE, NOT JUST BS! Move over honey and make room for the rest of us. Likewise, open up your mind because your opinion is just that, YOUR PERSPECTIVE. We all have one and none are wrong necessarily. Justine and others ask for advice and varying perspectives. I don't recall ANYONE ASKING FOR ONLY CATNIP AND GEMINI'S! You both are very insecure and need to get over it!
Mof5, your advice is awesome and I hope Justine takes it! Don't let these 2 and others scare you away and make you withhold your opinions! You can't heal and grow if you let closed minded people run you out of here.

"So now all you adulterers.....see ya.....I really don't care for your analogy of my situation.<p>But you all sing the same song.... B-O-R-I-N-G,,,YAWN,,,,,"<p>Well Gemini, as you bash Mof5, I must jump in to add, your marriage wasn't what you thought it was either so don't patronize Momof5 or anyone else here! If you are bidding farewell to us adulterers, are you saying goodbye to one you ar married to? Hah, I think not so get off your high horse and be reminded that you are living with one of us WS!!!!!
If you are as great as you seem to think and as righteous, well, you wouldn't be here in the first place!
I think your opinions are naive and closed minded and extremely judgemental. Who do you think you are helping by criticizing my or MO5's advice to Justine? You are entitled to your opinions and I and others are due same priviledges BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCES. I was WS and OW and believe me girlfriend, I have a better perspective on WS than you seem to based on your very one sided, BS opinion of anyone other than your sorry cheating husband who you seem to think should be forgiven even though HE WAS BOINKING (as you describe) someone besides you and not respecting his own body!!!!! So go now and yawn your way through your seeminig sad life - it won't get any better until you drop the "feel sorry for me" ACT.

CM:<p>"I am sure I understand WS a WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN YOU. As well I know what my relationship was with OM and believe me, you'd be in shock if you think A is all about sex!"<p>Sorry for butting in, here, and I'm sure I missed a lot, but I, for one, am pretty sure that I understand my WW more than SHE understands herself with this issue. SHE is the one that keeps asking me and our MC, "Why do you keep focusing on the sex? Why is that such a big deal to you? The A wasn't about sex!" Well, the truth of the matter is that I NEVER DID focus on the sex issue. Sure, I had the images that made me sick, still do from time to time, but we know (particularly males BSs) that the real issue is and always has been the emotional attachment to the OM. I franklly think that it's my W's fog that makes her shift the subject to the sex, which in her cse happened so infrequently as to be MUCH less a threat to our M than the emotional attachment. Now that I'm coming to realize that the mutual attraction between OM and my W before the A started was probably the leading cause of the A, I'm finding that things are starting to fall into pieces with repsect to what was going on in our M, and what my W has been saying to rationalize everything to keep the "friendship" with OM intact (at the expense of the quality of our R).<p>No, it's not usually about sex, particularly for women. I knew that all along after D-day. Most people on this forum know this, too.

Wow, you have said what I've been thinking but I've been drawn into the position of having to defend my advice to Justine.
It would great if each of us could do as you suggest, offer our advice and opinion and then move on. Yet, certain individuals take it a step further by not only offering their advice, but then critique and attack people who don't have their same perspective or take on life.
I just feel that this is one of the few places on earth where we are free. That means that we are entitled to our opinions and different experiences in this life. We all can contribute to Justine's request for advice, some of us have been where she is now. I'm sure that she would have appreciated hearing from us. I only hope she is still around to muddle through all this.
By the way, the same people who came here and "attacked" also did so on another thread from tobemommy under preg.other woman. If they are BS and not the prg. other woman, maybe they would serve all of us and themselves better if they stuck to the threads where everyone has their same opinions!!!!!!! Let the rest of carry on.
I came here for the same reasons and felt the same as you did when I first came here. With the exception of a few, many of BS that responded on this thread have done nothing but attack me. So, I apologize for my harsh remarks to them, but frankly, I'm sick of them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2long:
[QB]CM:<p>Thanks 2long, but I'm not referring to most people on this foreum. I'm specifically referring to remarks made by Gemini and catnip. Both of which I'm sick of hearing their onsided stories and opinions. They don't get it and continue to come to preg. other woman thread and bash those of us who have been or are in Justine's(in this case) position when we offer OUR advice. I know you better by now and your understanding is enabling you be the guy that you. Intelligent and very likely to be successful in rebuilding your M. I don't mean to say things to hurt you. My remarks are strictly to the 2 whom I see as offensive and ignorant.

Cm:<p>"With the exception of a few, many of BS that responded on this thread have done nothing but attack me. So, I apologize for my harsh remarks to them, but frankly, I'm sick of them. "<p>This is kind of like the angry outbursts between M couples. The only way to be civil in a sensitive situation is to avoid the angry outbursts, judgements, etc. It's not just okay to "be able to take what you dish out", it's important to try to be civil in all interactions between people. You'll get your point across, as will they, if you remain calm. It's that simple.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2long:
[QB]Cm:<p>
I tried that approach but I won't continue to have to defend my opinions from people who feel that their feelings and opinions are the only ones that count. I offered Justine my advice and that was all I had to say about that issue until I was attacked. I rationally and calmly stated what I felt she should do. So, yes, I'm really fed up because it's not the first time its happened and I'm by no means the first person it's been done to. I can't justify sitting like a little wallflower while narrow people bash me. Sorry but that is how I feel about it right now.

CMiranda,<p>You wrote:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I offered Justine my advice and that was all I had to say about that issue until I was attacked. I rationally and calmly stated what I felt she should do. So, yes, I'm really fed up because it's not the first time its happened and I'm by no means the first person it's been done to. I can't justify sitting like a little wallflower while narrow people bash me. <hr></blockquote><p>You also said earlier that everyone has an opinion and they are entitled to it. I fully agree that everyone should be able to give their advice without others trying to critique it.<p>But, if you look on page 2 of this thread, you will find that neither Catnip nor Gemini were the aggressor in this thread. Your very first post on page 2 gives Justine advice. However, immediately after that you posted a second time ripping into and bashing Catnip as follows:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Your response is harsh and written with blinders on. It obvious that you are deeply hurt by your circumstances and that is understandable. However, I disagree about several of your statements to Justine.<hr></blockquote><p>One by one, point by point, you start to dismantle Catnip's point of view. And in the midst of the post you state:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have said this to you once before catnip, if you must feel hatred and must fuel it, it is misplaced.<hr></blockquote><p>"I have said this to you once before..." That sounds very much like lecturing to a child. Catnip has been on this Board a long time and she has helped more people and been responsive to their needs than you will ever know. No wonder you got the barrage of responses that resulted.<p>If you want respect for your opinion, then you have to respect the opinions of others. There are plenty of things said on this Board that I disagree with, but I don't believe it is my place to try to change the opinions of everyone here. I express my view and move on -- the reader will take whatever is or is not right for themself out of the posts on this Board.<p>But telling people they have blinders on, are out of touch with reality, are full of hatred, etc. is not debating; it is insulting. <p>Please review your post on page 2 and see if you still believe YOU were the victim. Seems to me Cat was minding her own business and she got jumped in an alley [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]</p>

We are all at various places in life. What is right for one person, [or a marriage], is not necessarily correct for the next marriage, or the situation. <p>Mo5, I would like to meet you in person to talk. I do not agree with you. <p>I am a BS, with H having fathered 2 OC. <p>H and I have NO contact. This is not wrong, just as your situation is not wrong for you. <p>ember

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by 2long:
[QB]CM:<p>I'm specifically referring to remarks made by Gemini and catnip. Both of which I'm sick of hearing their onsided stories and opinions. They don't get it and continue to come to preg. other woman thread and bash those of us who have been or are in Justine's(in this case) position when we offer OUR advice. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Cmiranda<p>Around a year ago or so, I asked Dr. Harley to provide for us, people who are dealing with an OC as a result of an affair, our own site. I did this because I noticed that many of our posters struggling with this issue within the General Questions forum were lost and thought it would be a benefit. Because the only thing worse on this planet other than finding out your spouse has betrayed you, is to find out that a child has resulted from the affair. To me, there is nothing on this earth short of loosing a child that can compare. The damage is horrific and everlasting, the pain indescribable and crushing,<p>Dr. Harley granted my request and Pregnancy/Child site was created. As a result, men and women who are dealing with these horrors have a place to go to for comfort, support, advice, commiseration, understanding and wonderful friendships have developed. Sometimes people come here who don't really belong here because they refuse to incorporate the Harley Principles into their recovery process and sometimes they are just obstinant and looking for excuses, absolution, vindication and use this forum to convince themselves they are so much more important to their Married Lover than they really are, when in reality, none of that matters. Sometimes people seem far more concerned over whether or not what they had with their married lover was real or not rather than worrying about the pain they have caused their spouse, their children or the harm to two families. And sometimes, they attack the members here who have always gotten along among themselves and just cause trouble and rancor...and then turn it around by saying it is one of us who are the attackers, full of hate and bitterenss.<p>Cmiranda, if you are here to follow the Harley principles and here to repair your marriage, here to make your husband your number one priority, stop worrying about whether or not your x married lover gave a rat's [censored] about you and stop trying to desperately validate yourself. In the Big Picture, it doesn't matter one hoot to any of us whether or not he loved or even liked you. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. Who cares? The ONLY thing that matters is the lies you are living with your husband and the injustice you are perpetrating onto him and onto your marriage...his feelings are the only ones that count right now and he needs to be informed so he can make the right decisions for himself.<p>If you read the Harley books, columns and study the principles, you will see that in MOST cases, if there is ever any "love" between the Affairees, you will relaize that in MOST cases, it is simply something lacking within themselves and their inability to express to their spouse whatever it is they are lacking and just try to fill that void with a willing partner. If they feel "in love", it is usually an idealized fantasy that comes crashing to the ground once the "big announcement" is made that there is a bun in the oven. Huge reality check. Suddenly the pregnant lover doesn't look so exciting...just looks like big trouble.<p>You'll hear about the "fog" that engulfs the Wayward as he/she believes at first that this new person is the answer to the misery within that seldom has anything to do with the clueless and confused spouse.<p>You can continue to carry on about how the Waywards have feelings for the OP as long as you need to to convince yourself that you mattered more than you did or try to continue to hurt the already damaged and hurting Betrayed Spouses here with your insensitve words in an attempt to add more pain to our already bloody souls, but in the final analysis, you will someday see that your cruel words have landed you some unpleasant karma.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catnip:<p>"..if you are here to follow the Harley principles and here to repair your marriage, here to make your husband your number one priority stop worrying about whether or not your x married lover gave a rat's [censored] about you and stop trying to desperately validate yourself."<p>This is the very last time I will defend myself to you catnip. You just don't understand the positon of WS. You haven't heard me because I'm not here to validate myself and my ex-lovers feeling for me, who by the way is still pursuing our relationship, long after child was born, long after I ended it, long after alot of things. I am a WS as well as former OW and I speak from the perspective of WS. If my H wasn't my main concern I wouldn't be here!!! I speak of my feelings as WS because you go on and on about how A mean nothing, sex is all there is, OP is some slut, OC is meaninless, etc. I know what ex-om and I had and felt together etc, which is why I had such a hard time following the on contact rule at first. I read DR H overview of A and some of it is accurate in my case and some is not.<p>
"In the Big Picture, it doesn't matter one hoot to any of us whether or not he loved or even liked you. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. Who cares"<p>I'm not here to tell you how much he loves me. I know what is what there he and I were concerned. But, I wish to voice the opinion of WS when BS such as you share you opinion about A's. Alot of defending of WS here and I want all to know that we WS don't deserve to seen as innocent victims of OP. <p>"Affairees, you will relaize that in MOST cases, it is simply something lacking within themselves and their inability to express to their spouse whatever it is they are lacking and just try to fill that void with a willing partner." <p>I understand why A's happen, I was involved in one for many years! But mine was intense and real and you can't tell me it was just some willing partner I hooked up with. Lets not go here again.<p>
"You'll hear about the "fog" that engulfs the Wayward as he/she believes at first that this new person is the answer to the misery within that seldom has anything to do with the clueless and confused spouse."<p>Yes, the feelings for OP are not about spouse. They are about the person who feels them, the WS. In my case, I fell out of love with H before I met OM. I love H but I'm not yet in love with him. I hope I will be again. I think I understand!<p>
"You can continue to carry on about how the Waywards have feelings for the OP as long as you need to to convince yourself that you mattered more than you did or try to continue to hurt the already damaged ..."<p>This site includes WS and OW as well as BS. I think you hurt and carry on from a BS view. You continue to say that I have to convince myself that I meant more to him (or he meant more than he did to me) when he believed divorce was going to happen and he began to destroy his M because of our A. I don't need to convince myself but you put you seem to want me to defend myself. I just think it's pointless to say such things that you nothing about.
I can empathize with some of the BS here but I feel you in particular don't like my experiences and views so you try to convince me and yourself that us OW don't matter. I am a WS and I know that OP matters a great deal. That is what makes it so hard to get over. That doesn't mean H doesn't mean a hoot. He means alot to me and it took me and a child later to realize he is my future. I don't want to nor need to "convince" myself of anything, I know what I know about myself and ex-OM and state of my M when A started. But I do need to share that to defend us WS and treat us like we are idiots who don't know a real feeling when one is exists is a big mistake on part of BS. I don't want to hurt anyone, I think we are all damaged to be here in the first place. So you shouldn't tell OW who are WS too, to get out of here as you have. In some cases, OC are not seen as problems by WS, but BS can't handle the pain OC represents. I guess I see it differently because people in A most likely did alot worse to the BS but the child is one thing that becomes tangible to you and that which you become aware of. That isn't said to hurt any BS. I say it because as WS it seems that I have a perspective that some BS may not. The OC is a public slap in the face to BS but I believe the bigger slaps were done in private and those are the real things you should be hurt and pissed off about. The WS took his/her role in that and wasn't forced. At least if it is ever done to me, I know that is what I'd be most hurt about. It just seems like WS are given too much credit and maybe my H will sound like that when he is told, but heck, I will tell him not to treat me like I was braindead. I knew what I was jeaopardizing. It would be hard to admit alot of the realities to him. I guess having been there I have a different take on it. I am finding freedom in owning MY actions.

Dear God CM,<p>You haven't a clue do you??? You and your H are in my prayers. And you poor child... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do hope you come back to read what you have posted in about a year. I think you will see it much much differently.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>Dear God CM,<p>You haven't a clue do you??? You and your H are in my prayers. And you poor child... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do hope you come back to read what you have posted in about a year. I think you will see it much much differently.<p>God Bless,<p>JL</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think I do and I also feel that I'm a whole lot happier than some of the miserable ones here. I may see things differently but I do not hope to see my A as some big mistake that I have to regret for the rest of my life. I feel like a better person because of it, I have my beautiful child who is the light of my life. He was conceived from love and I won't let people try to brainwash me into harboring only bad feelings about it. I will move on, my H will move past it, and we will survive, I'm pretty sure of it. If he acts like some of BS here with all the hate and accusations, it will drive me away. Hence my taking a step back over the last 4 days and thinking that maybe some of the BS here would have been better off not knowing. I know it goes against the principals, but wow, it seems to be eating some people up alive. Some of the stuff I read here is outrageous to me and I can see why some individuals are so unhappy. If you bury your head in the sand you can't possibly see the problem as it is and fix it. I am facing my life head on right now. I think I do get it.

Like moths to a flame...it's too damn hard to let it go, isn't it!

CM,<p>Come back and post after you tell your H.<p>You said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I may see things differently but I do not hope to see my A as some big mistake that I have to regret for the rest of my life. I feel
like a better person because of it, I have my beautiful child who is the light of my life. He was conceived from love and I won't let people try to brainwash me into harboring only bad feelings about it. <hr></blockquote><p>I put the part in bold for you to consider, AFTER you are finally honest with your H. Dear lady you are not even close to finished with withdrawal yet so I understand where this comment is coming from.<p>But, do you know how RUDE that statement is??<p>Do you realize that you are NOT a spokeswoman for the WS?<p>Do you realize that you are NOT the protector of all of the OC's out there?<p>Do you realize that most of the people you are talking to KNOW that their spouses are the WS and are VERY familiar with THEIR point of view?<p>You need to quit defending yourself to yourself and realize there are many things you don't know.<p>When reading this you remind me of my teenagers, who seem to forget that I was once a teenager, but they have NEVER been where I have been.<p>Please, CM quit thrashing around here. You need to settle down, and get down to the business of settling things with your H. You won't and don't have a clue yet as to what pain is until you see it in your H's eyes. When he finds out ( and he will eventually) that the child he loves isn't his. You have no clue. Why? Well there are many reasons but one is simply you are not a man.<p>The only analogy I could tell you is that if someday someone shows up from the hospital and tells you that your baby isn't yours (it was switched in the hospital) and your baby died. And now the other parents want it. <p>Think about that scenario. It is close to what your H, is going to find out sooner or later. IF it is later, then you will have ripped away both your H's life and your child's life. That is one reason NOW is better than later. At least your son will grow up knowing who he is and where he came from. Telling later will make his life a lie as well.<p>Honesty is the only way, CM, but you don't have a clue yet how painful it is going to be. For all your talk about knowing what is right, and the comment that I quoted. Your going to have to go there to find out. I just wish you were better prepared than you seem to be.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Cmiranda <p>I am not as eloquent nor as intuitive as many here but I still would like to offer my two cents worth in order to try to help you and I mean no offense in my observations. <p>It has been a terrible struggle for you recently and I feel that you are in a lot of pain. I would like to tell you that I am rooting for you to get on to a better place in your life.<p>I have watched you now avoid doing what you know that you must do for some time now. I only wish that I could persuade my W to come here and tell you just what it feels like to have both of your children taken from you and having to see them only through the eyes of the husband that you have betrayed. It is a subject that we can only discuss infrequently now since it is so painful for both of us. Believe me it could be you in a few years. <p>She also thought that she had a true love in her MM1, but I know that it does not seem so true now. Yes, it is regretfully something that you will have to live with for the rest of your life but hopefully you can build on it and make a better future. <p>I feel that you must first discover how to communicate with your husband because, if from what I have seen here, there is a lot of anger and fear in your responses and you continue to be argumentative with anyone who happens not to share your point of view. We have been forced to learn in the wake of this life altering event how to communicate with each other with out allowing anger and resentment to blind us to what the other party has to say. IMHO, I feel that this may be responsible for your defensive attitude. I would recommend that you seek out some anger management books, tapes or web sites and discuss it with your C before you confess to your husband. I think it will make it easier for you to recognize your own anger and deal with it and also empathize with the inevitable anger you will see from H.<p>I do hope you take the next step soon and do not allow it to linger.<p>Every day is a new beginning. Take advantage of it soon.<p>God Bless You <p>Usedlongago

CMiranda,<p>JL has made one point that I hope doesn't get missed in the shuffle and the arguing. Right now you have lied to your H about the paternity of your son. If this continues much longer you will be lying to your son about his paternity. You have a moral obligation to tell both of them the truth. I learned of my false paternity at age 35. My world nearly ended. Only thing in my life that has been worse is to learn that my H had betrayed me and fathered a child by his affair. I nearly died from depression twice in my life. Tell your husband now, and raise your child with the knowledge of his true paternity. Human dignity demands that we not base our lives on lies told to us by those who are supposed to care most for us. As this child's mother you owe him the honor and respect of raising him truthfully. That doesn't mean that you have to involve this child's bio-father in his life, but you do owe your own child the truth of his conception.<p>As for whether the OP meant something or means something to our WSs, could we all just agree to disagree? Not all affairs are the same. Catnip's H had an affair during a drinking and manic episode. The affair was brief and probably born out of his mental illness. Maybe only those who live with a bipolar person can understand the true craziness that can bring to their lives, not just the life of the person who is mentally ill, but to the life of everyone he or she loves.<p>CMiranda had an affair that appears to be based on unmet needs in her own marriage. That may be why she is willing to hold herself (and WSs in general) more to blame than Catnip is willing to hold her husband. <p>My H had a 7-year affair. In some way that I am unable to understand he claims that he loved both of us. If that's love, please spare me from that ever happening to me again. My gut feeling is that he actually USED both of us: me because I am good, kind, loving, earn a ton of money and made a lovely home for us, her because she was younger, beautiful and slim. We can talk all we want about unmet needs, but I think I was being punished for getting fat, very fat. [Now that he is fat, do I have an excuse to have an affair?] I will give him the benefit of the doubt and do my honest best to take him at his word since we are rebuilding a life. Truth is I have to face the fact that he either he loved both of us OR he is a totally immoral person who uses people for his own ends. I prefer to believe the former.<p>Some wayward spouses have affairs that are only physical. Others have affairs that are both emotional and physical. others still have affairs that are only emotional and don't cross the boundary that we usually define as infidelity. No marriage is the same, no affair is the same and none of us are identical to each other just because we have lived through the horror of an affair.<p>CMiranda, you have stopped your physical affair--good for you. However, if you are just here to justify what you did and not to work on your marriage, why are you here? This site is guided by certain principles that the Harleys have created for the repair of marriages and the prevention of affairs. Before this corner of this web site got bombarded by OW about a year ago, most people here were trying to apply the Harley principles to their lives and repair their marriages. Yes, there were some OW here, but generally they were not of the type who thought that their affair was some great romantic adventure. Maybe your H won't care much that you have had and affair and duped him about paternity, but most BSs find this to be a hideously painful experience. <p>Weren't you devistated by at least his first affair or two? Has he hurt you so badly that you are emotionally shut down and unaware of the pain that your affair and lying about your child's paternity are liable to cause him. Or has he hurt you so much that you think he deserves this pain? Did you do this to get even? Affairs are generally not considered to be growth experiences by most people, even most people who have had one. If you affair was so good, and your love for each other so life-enhancing, why didn't you leave your H and he leave his wife? <p>Could we please try to do something else on this board besides the constant name calling?<p>CMiranda, could we please hear something about your plans to improve the marriage you have decided to stay in?<p>MJ

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just Learning:<p>Let me ask you this JL: why do you think it's okay for you to sit there and talk to me like I'm a child? Like your opinion is the only one that is valid? Your response to me is exactly what I am talking about! If you know best and your life is so great, what are you doing here? I ask this because of the righteous attitudes. I am here for the same reasons as the rest of you. Except from my seat, it seems that your lives are a wreck and you are unhappy as hell. After discussing my situation on friday evening once again with mc, alone, having been here during the day and hitting up against these tremendous attitudes, I don't really know if I want my H to become so full of hate and hurt and misery as what I see here. It is more of a punishment it seems now.
No, I don't think my statement of not wanting to look back everyday I have left with regret is rude! Do I see the A as something that shouldn't of happened? Yes I do but I won't settle to regreting my life. It happened and there are ways past them without living a life with regrets. I see myself as divorced right now if I hadn't had A. I think M can be better because of it for many reasons. I am entitled to feel that way without being accused of being Rude! That is my feeling.<p>I realize this JL: I'm a spokesperson for myself.
Are you a spokesperson for BS's or for JL?<p>I am entitled to comment based on my experience as a ws. It would too easy for my H to let me off the hook and just blame OP for everything. Of course I realize many people here have their own WS to contend with. It should be helpful to be told by a ws that we don't deserve to be treated like our fog as it's called, doesn't excuse our accountability. And I hear alot of blaming of others but heck, no mention of the WS! Its nuts. That belief has pissed off quite a few BS here. So am I soppose to say what you all want to hear? You certainly have no problem sharing both your helpful and hurtful feelings. So don't expect more from me than what has been dished out.
I guess I can stop defending myself, but until everyone else does it, it won't stop. We all do it. So why do you focus on me? Because I don't represent you. I don't know it all. I don't claim to. Who here does? Yes, the righteous ones. <p>I remind you of your teenagers? Okay and this is getting us where? I'm sure you haven't been where I have but I don't insult you by telling you that you remind me of xxxxx. You don't have to accept my point of view, that is okay with me. What is your point on this remark? My life & experiences are invalid when compared to yours?
The thrashing comes from this and many of the other responses I get to my opinion. I have said several times but you negelect to hear it, maybe due to your own thrashing, that I have been working toward repairing m, that is actually why I have seen a MC 3x. But again, with the attitudes here, I don't know anymore if telling H would only doom him to a fate much worse than the life he has right now. He is happy. At least, that is what he told me over the weekend.
I respect your opinion about what if he finds out later. But then again, I hear all the bitterness here by some BS and I think I don't buy into this anymore. Seems I'd be condemning H to that life you all seem to have and it's not looking any better than living in the dark and so I am re-thinking my plan to tell him.
I am grateful to have seen this side of many of you. I probably have a more informed vision of what this whole process of "recovery" has done to the BS.

cmiranda,
I do understand everything what you are going through and have been through. Aside from this other mess, which isnt really all that important. We all tend to get our feelings hurt when we think we are being targeted. I think telling your husband the truth would greatly benefit you and your child, Your husband already loves this baby with all his heart. IF he finds out later or God forbid your child finds out later ... and secrets never stay secrets for long sooner or later it all comes out. It might hurt them beyond repair, if you tell them now, they will be givent he chance to heal themselves and adjust. He wont stop loving that baby. YOU DONT TURN LOVE ON AND OFF. He will be more hurt you kept this from him. I do know what types of pressures you can get from other person, but it is time to look out for you an your family. Just something to think about.. and I in know way am attacking you, Just know your hurting and would like to help.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>cmiranda,
I do understand everything what you are going through and have been through. Aside from this other mess, which isnt really all that important. We all tend to get our feelings hurt when we think we are being targeted. I think telling your husband the truth would greatly benefit you and your child, Your husband already loves this baby with all his heart. IF he finds out later or God forbid your child finds out later ... and secrets never stay secrets for long sooner or later it all comes out. It might hurt them beyond repair, if you tell them now, they will be givent he chance to heal themselves and adjust. He wont stop loving that baby. YOU DONT TURN LOVE ON AND OFF. He will be more hurt you kept this from him. I do know what types of pressures you can get from other person, but it is time to look out for you an your family. Just something to think about.. and I in know way am attacking you, Just know your hurting and would like to help.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'm glad to have heard from you mo5.
I am re-thinking telling H. I'm afraid that he'll become a person so full of bitterness and hate, and I'm not so worried that it will be directed at me. I'm worried that he'll just carry it around and turn it on himself or most likely OM. I see it here and it seems to be all consuming. It seems like the spouses who know know are full of bad feelings that don't go away. And in part, I feel as if they don't understand the A at all. If I told my H how I really feel, as I have here, how can I expect him to understand?