To answer your question, the only thing I see wrong with the picture is that you didn't explain to your husband how important this was/is to you. You just expected him to see through your tears and understand--like the OM did? To me, that was being manipulative on your part.<p>I think you are emotional due to your father's condition--& rightly so--but I also think that you could make that drive alone with 3 kids. To me, your reason for not going is much more unreasonable than your H's reason for not going. <p>None of this was OM's business to put in his .02 in the first place. THAT's what was really wrong with the picture to me, OM should have been left out of the conversation. OM was not part of the problem, NOR part of the solution. He never should have been in this picture.

Catnip, thank you. I have always been terribly disgusted by the amount of CS that you have to pay. It just isn't right.<p>BTDT, At first I was just going to ignore your incredibly insensitive post but you're right, I am very emotional right now.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Maybe you are afraid to take the kids by yourself, but you are a big (BIG) girl and you should get over this fear! You could probably make it without even having to stop at all! IF you keep the baby awake and don't let her fall asleep until you decide to go (same with the others--don't know how old they are?) But get some kiddie music to keep them entertained and have LOTS of snacks in ziplocks! Take water bottles with pull-tops, that way if they spill, not a huge deal. You can do this!!! 4.5 hours is not all that long, really...<hr></blockquote> <p>Unlike most babies my D does not sleep well in the car. She dozes on and off and gets very bored, cries and wants out of her seat most of the time. Our last trip to see my parents was in Feb. My son was feeding her cheerios one at a time in the back seat. She started to choke and ended up throwing up. If I had been alone driving at that time I probably would have gone off the road. If I drove alone with the kids my mind would be more on what was going on in the back seat than on the road. A hazard, yes? My H knows I am this way and so does my mom which is why she did not want me to make that trip alone.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I think your H doesn't realize how important this trip is/was to you. It is up to you to let him know. So what OM had the intrinsic ability to know, that's how the Temptor has this thing wired--to make OM look better than your H when he's really not. Your H is the one who forgave you through all this. Your H is the one who deserves to be honored, regardless. Maybe he IS wrong not to offer, but you need to let him know how important it is to you instead of keeping your fears and concerns all to yourself.<hr></blockquote> <p>
I am not a woman that cries often or easily. I don't cry at sad movies, weddings or even funerals with the exception of my grandparents. I explained my father's condition to my H, I was very upset and crying and told him that I would very much like to see him and asked if we could please go this weekend. I have been with my H for 15 years and if he couldn't tell how important it was to me then I give up. I did not tell xOM because I was looking for sympathy. It was VERY obvious that I had been crying when he dropped my D off so when he asked what was wrong instead of saying nothing and let him assume that I was having problems with H I told him the truth. I DID NOT say that my H was unwilling to make the trip. I simply said that he was unable to get away that weekend. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you are afraid about the car making it, rent one! If you are afraid baby won't make it, leave her with OM! I say if it means so much to you, then go. <hr></blockquote> <p>It is not the reliability of my car that concerns me. It is flat tires and car accidents (which can happen no matter how good your car is) that bother me. The majority of this trip is on the interstate. Mostly unpopulated areas. And we have seen enough accidents on this interstate during our previous trips to make me think about it. xOM is single and has no other children. He has not had her for a period of more that 4 hours at a time up to this point. I also don't think that he himself is ready to have her for that long of a period of time or I know he would have offered to do it. Heck, I know my own H couldn't handle her for an entire weekend. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> To answer your question, the only thing I see wrong with the picture is that you didn't explain to your husband how important this was/is to you. You just expected him to see through your tears and understand--like the OM did? To me, that was being manipulative on your part.<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I see. Crying because my dad is very ill in the hospital more that 300 hundred miles away was VERY manipulative of me. How could I be so inconsiderate!!!<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I think you are emotional due to your father's condition--& rightly so--but I also think that you could make that drive alone with 3 kids. To me, your reason for not going is much more unreasonable than your H's reason for not going. <hr></blockquote> <p>Ah yes, I see again. My concern for the safety and well being of my children is so much more unreasonable than my H's reason for not wanting to go. What was that reason again? Oh yes, I remember. " I just don't feel like it"<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> None of this was OM's business to put in his .02 in the first place. THAT's what was really wrong with the picture to me, OM should have been left out of the conversation. OM was not part of the problem, NOR part of the solution. He never should have been in this picture. <hr></blockquote> <p>
I believe I've already addressed this point. But what I thought was wrong with the picture was that I had wished my H would have been the one who wanted to make the trip, not xOM. I didn't want to go with xOM. I wanted to go with my H. As I said in a previous post I have no idea what his motives were nor do I care. If I had really wanted to be manipulative I would have gone straight to my H and told him what xOM had offered. That probably would have gotten him off his butt and in the car. But no, I let it be.<p>Sorry if I have been rude but as you assumed I am very emotional right now and you hit a very big nerve.<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</p>

WIB,<p>I know what you mean. My oldest was 8 and youngest 1 when my father passed away. They never got to hear about his life and yes WWII as well. Sadly, my W's mother never saw my youngest and my oldest was only 4 and middle one 1 when she passed.<p>We did spend as much time as we could seeing both sets of parents before their passing. Even before there were any signs of illness.<p>I am so glad that you are going to see your Dad. It will be hard on you, but he will know you are there and it will help both of you. Do your best to savor the moments WIB. I am glad your H saw the light as well.<p>I don't know how much I will be on the board this week, but travel safely and do your best to let the kids see your Dad and more importantly know something about his life.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Dear want it back,<p>I'm sorry if you felt I was incredibly insensitive. It was not my intention whatsoever. I'm also sorry that you felt sarcasm was necessary in your response to my suggestions. You left out certain details in your original post which was what I was focusing in on.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>
...I'm starting to see the future when my dad is gone and I'm regretting not spending more time with him. Well, my H said no. I asked why and he said he just didn't feel like making that trip this weekend. He suggested I go alone with the kids. I was seriously thinking about it even though the thought of making that trip alone with three kids terrifies me more than I can say(and my H knows this). Well my mom called me about that time to tell me how my dad was doing. She begged me not to make the trip alone with the kids as she already had enough to worry about and couldn't stand worrying about us too. So I told her I wouldn't. Well I was balling by now. At this point we still didn't know about his head injury and he also had a fever of 102. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>So thanks for the clarification. I still believe it will not be very healthy for your marital recovery to be including the OM when it comes to disagreements between you and your H--especially ones this emotionally charged. That's all I was trying to say.<p>And when something is this important to you, and your H is not getting it, consider yourself hugged, and just do it afraid. Drive 10 mph if you have to. Stop 20 times if you have to. We only get one dad.

I lost my father when I was 15, so I know what it feels like to lose a father forever. I am empathetic regarding your pain even if you disagree. I'm really sorry my advice/opinions/thoughts are not helpful to you. I do wish you a successful recovery.

BTDT,<p>I apologize if I was sarcastic but it really got to me when you suggested that I was trying to be manipulative. I'm sure there were many down and dirty things I could have done or said to get my H to change his mind and go on that trip but I did not. I accepted his decision and did not "punish" him for it even though I was terribly hurt and upset that he felt the way he did.

I don't feel that xOM was included in our disagreement at all. He is not aware that any disagreement between H and I even took place. However there are certain things that he does have to know. We have a legally binding visitation schedule and I can not just go away for the weekend without telling him first (at this time he sees D every weekend). So whether it had been that afternoon or on another day he still would have been told about my dad and that I was going away for the weekend.<p>I do appreciate your kind words regarding my dad. It looks like he only has about 6 mo left now. We will be taking this weekend trip and also a weeklong trip in July that had already been previously planned. Again I apologize for any sarcasm but I am truly not in control of my emotions right now and very sensitive to everything.

Dear WIB,<p>I am sorry that your Dad is so ill and that he has a little time left. I am sorry that your children will grow up w/o a grandfather. I am sorry that you are losing your Dad. I will keep you in my prayers. You are having a very hard time right now. I haven't lost a parent yet and I dread when the time comes.<p>It sounds like you might have a phobia about driving. When things calm down in your life, you might want to try addressing your long-distance driving fear by driving further and further distances until you build some confidence in your ability. Get a cell phone, get some roadside assistance plan like AAA. (Oh yeah, learn to change a tire [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I don't have enough strength to turn the lug nuts so I carry a power tool with me.) Don't let your fears hold you back in life. Women drive with little kids in their cars all the time. I have military wife friends who have even done 2,000 mile trips with two little ones in the back seat. They haven't enjoyed the experience but they have gotten through safely.<p>Also, men can handle a lot more child care responsibilities than we give them credit for. Self-proclaimed stupidity should not get anyone out of their responsibilites. Did you ever hear Bill Cosby's routine on how fathers intentionally screw up doing household chores so that they will never be asked to do them again? On the show Claire Huxtable called in a professional every time Bill tried to fix anything. It was all a sham on his part to get out of fixing the leaky pipe. Men are tricky that way. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>MJ

When things calm down, you might wish to consider this Q&A article where a woman has a child through an affair and the husband is getting advice from Dr.Harley:<p>Pregnant with a Lover's Child #2<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>from Dr.Harley Q&A:
<strong>...If you decide to remain married and create a mutually enjoyable future together, then the next decision you will need to make is how to treat Robin's former lover. Should he become a part of your family, with visitation rights as well as financial responsibility for raising his daughter? Or should he be out of your lives entirely? <p>As with the issue of divorce, this one should also be decided by enthusiastic agreement. But if you want my advice, I usually encourage a couple in your situation to keep the ex-lover away from your family. It may be difficult to engineer, but it is very important for Robin to try to avoid seeing or talking to him ever again. Granted, the affair may be over, but I am always concerned about the possibility of it becoming rekindled. If, for some reason, it is impossible to keep him away from his daughter, I suggest that you act as an intermediary, so that whenever he visits, he does not see or talk to Robin. <p>Another very difficult issue is whether or not to tell your daughter who her real father is. Again, I suggest that you reach an enthusiastic agreement before you make a decision. The Policy of Radical Honesty applies only to a husband and wife, and not necessarily to children. While I tend to value honesty in all situations, if you and Robin can enthusiastically agree to deceive your child about her real father, it's up to you. <p>But if you want my advice, I would encourage you to be honest with Robin's daughter very early in life, so that there are no surprises later. I think it's more important for her to know she can trust what you say, than that she thinks you are her real father. Eventually, she is likely to know the truth anyway, and if she was consistently told that she was your daughter, the truth might undermine her trust of you. Regardless of who her genetic father may be, you will be the father that cares for her most for the rest of her life, and she will know that about you as you raise her into adulthood... </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I do realize that some of this does not apply to your situation at all, but on the other hand, some of it does, especially the part about having your H deal with OM as the intermediary for visitations.<p>If your H is not up to it, I suggest you try to find a way to convince him that it is important to your marital recovery ESPECIALLY since your H's reactions are being compared to OM's reactions to your emotional needs...<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

BTDT,
Thank you for sharing the article. Although I am quite sure that H would not want to deal with xOM I am going to ask him if he would. There are in fact a lot of things I want to talk to H about. JL has made me see that our communication needs to be better so right before my dad became so ill I had asked H to pick a good time for him where we could get a sitter for two or three hours and go someplace to talk. I didn't even care if we just drove someplace and parked. I told him that I had no idea how he felt about alot of things. He has never asked me any particulars about the A at all and I have never offered any. I told him if he needed to talk about those things then I would. But then my dad became very ill and things just went crazy so we haven't had that talk yet. <p>This may sound very selfish but I feel that I have been busting my butt to meet all of his ENs but mine are only being met sporadically. I guess my point is that if my H were doing his best to meet my ENs then there would be no concern about xOM or anyone else stepping up to meet them instead. My H has read a lot of the material from this site but I'm not sure it has all sunk in. I'm sure alot of it has to do with the fact that we have never really discussed the dynamics of my A and why and how it came to be. I bought HNHN and SAA and read them from cover to cover almost two months ago. They sit on my nightstand and H has yet to even open the covers. Things are not so drastic that I feel the need to look elsewhere to have my needs met but I certainly don't want it to come to that. I think for the last almost 2 years that I have been so greatful and happy that
H was able to forgive me and accept our D as his own that I haven't felt I deserved any more than that. And I honestly think that I have been trying so hard to make up for everything that I haven't even been paying attention to weather or not my needs were being met. So a question for you or anyone else, especially any BSs. Seeing as how I was the WS do I not deserve to have my needs met to the extent of my H? I am serious. Does my mistake mean that I must carry the the extra burden forever of trying to make my marriage work?<p>I know I'm rambling but I am trying to keep my mind occupied. My sister just called a while ago to let me know that she and my mom were on their way to the hospital. The hospital called my mom this morning to see if she wanted my dad to be rsusitated(?) if his heart stops. He started having heart trouble yesterday and they moved him to ICU. I am beside myself that he may die before I have the chance to see him.<p>JL, I'm sorry. I saw on another thread where you would like for me to post to CM. I just can't right now. I have been reading the posts and frankly I don't think I can get into that right now. Maybe when I get back home after this weekend. I understand her fear in telling her H but she is the exact opposite of me. I could not live with that fear and ended up telling my H about my prgnancy a 1/2 hour after I took the test. I also didn't know if he would want to stay with me after I told him but I could not carry it around with me. I needed to tell him. I believe her concern about causing her H pain is real however she is using that concern to wrongly convince herslf that not telling him is best.

WIB,<p>My prayers are for you and your father. Do go as soon as you can. Talk with your H about leaving sooner if possible. I will tell you one thing that may be of little comfort now, but may help later. Your father remembers you as you were when a child. He still loves you, you don't have to be there to keep his image of you or for him to know how you feel about him. Remember that OK?<p>As for your needs and stuff, don't worry about that stuff right now. But, the answer is that you BOTH should be happy in this marriage, and you BOTH need to gain something from it. Needs are a way of explaining what has happened, but when it all gets done, it seems to me this is sort of like dieting. If you burn more than you eat, you lose weight. If you do the opposite you gain weight. <p>If you are getting more out of the marriage than you would being on your own, then you are gaining ground. If you are getting less out of the marriage than you would being on your own then you are lossing ground.<p>The needs issues are critical but they are more a marker to the greater issues of this balance that marriage really is.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

WIB,
I am so sorry. Is there any way you can leave sooner? Maybe your H can get some time off of work and go with you. <p>I know you don't want to go alone, but maybe you can do it. Is there anyone that can go with you? <p>Dawn<p>[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Dawn71 ]</p>

JL, Thanks for your post. I know what you mean about my dad. He does know that he has daughters but he is mostly remembering us as being very young. He asks my mom from time to time where the little ones are. He has stableized as of this afternoon. They have given him a blood transfusion and plan on giving him another one soon. My mom called a little while ago and said he had some color in his cheeks again. He is still on the morphine though so he's still quite out of it.<p>I see what you mean about the EN thing. I know I am much better off with my H than I would be alone or with anyone else for that matter. I do the things I do for him because I love him, not because I am looking for something in return. He has been being very considerate of me this week because of my dad and I know he will be there for me when my dad passes. Those are the important things.

Dawn, We posted together and I hadn't seen yours yet. We are ready to leave at a moments notice and will most likely leave tomorrow afternoon instead of Friday. My mom calls me every couple of hours to update me and right now he seems to be stable and he is aware when he's not on the morphine. The blood transfusion seems to have helped. My mom says he looks much better today than he did yesterday. I'll just be glad when we get there.

WIB,<p>I meant a little more that you realized. Your Dad always thought of you as his "little girl" [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . He always will. You will see as your children grow up, you will still see them as young. <p>I guess I was just trying to say that your place in his heart is always there. So don't worry about that. <p>Glad to hear he has taken a turn for the better.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

It sounds like your H is pretending that he doesn't wonder more about your A, OR perhaps talking about it hurts him and he doesn't like feeling vulnerable. My guess is that he has questions but just avoids them. I think it is awesome--your willingness to discuss the WHY's because I believe your H needs to understand your why's... and I'm positive it is not just about your unmet needs. Lack of communication has been pointed out. And that can be fixed through a POJA to spend more time together, especially considering everything. Dr.Harley recommends 15 hours but in your case, I'm almost positive he would recommend much more! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] If you can imagine allocating that much time just for the two of you... It IS a lot, but sounds like it could be very extremely helpful to your relationship right now.

wib,
HOPE THINGS ARE GOING WELL. YOUR FATHER BETTER? YOUAND YOUR FAMILY ARE STILL IN MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS

We left last Thursday afternoon to see my dad. We got there too late to see him in the hospital so I had to wait until Friday. I spent Friday and Saturday at the hospital with him. He is doing very badly. Mostly out of it and when he is awake he just stares at the ceiling. He does have fleeting moments where he seems to recognize us and I managed to get two smiles from him. On Saturday afternoon his doctor came in and spoke to the family. He has had the cancer for a while and it has spread quite drastically. We were told that they could keep him alive for about 2 months if they continued his IV ( he is not eating anymore), blood transfusions(he is bleeding internally somewhere) and kept him on his heart medication. He has cancer of the esophogus and he would die a horrible death. Or we could stop doing everything, keep him on morphine and he would die a much more peaceful death within 2 weeks. We decided to remove everything. They have placed him on a morphine drip whereas he had been getting shots up until then. The drip leaves him in more of a comatose state. When Sunday came around and My H and boys were getting ready to return home I had to make a decision. Do I stay or go. I almost stayed but with no one to watch the baby(everyone is always at the hospital) I would be stuck at my sisters house alone with no way to see dad. My mom and sisters convinced me that I should return home. My dad would not know if I were there or not. So I came home. I am regretting it immensely. We returned yesterday afternoon about 4 o'clock. My sister called me to tell me they had moved dad into a private room and that he had received his last rites. We had expected him to go the past two nights but he is still hanging on. I asked my sister that since I wasn't there to please tell my dad that I loved him very much and to keep telling him that every once in a while. She called me back a while later to tell me that as soon as she hung up with me that she went and told my dad that I wished very badly that I could be there with him and that I loved him very much. He opened his eyes and looked at my sister then closed them again. She said it was the first time he had opened his eyes all day. So now we just wait. It could be any minute or 2 weeks depending on how strong he is. He is very weak and I don't think it will be much longer. I did all my laundry when I got home and basically repacked everything so we can head back on a moments notice. And that is where it stands right now. <p>I thank everyone who has prayed for him. Religion has become very important to him in these last few weeks. When the priest came in every day to bless him was when he would show the most reaction. He would smile broadly and mouth the words "thank you".<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</p>

WIB,<p>You have done all you can do, except prayer. That you can do from your home. I am glad you got to see him. This is very hard, but it sounds as if things are the way they need to be given the circumstances.<p>God Bless,<p>JL