For some reason I cant sleep, I have been reading and thinking most of this evening. <p>First I would like to say, I think I have forgotten what it was like to be a betrayed spouse. I shouldnt have, I think it happened so often that I had become numb to it. I have thought and thought about all these choices someone else makes for us but it effects our life so tremendously.
I think I probably defend my daughter till the end, because after all I am her mother,a nd I lover her with all my heart. But Maybe if we had been thrown into the position of knowing our husbands fathered a child, would we be any different? Perhaps not. As loving a mother as I am to my children, I dont think I can honestly say what I would do if I were thrown into the postion of our money going to some woman who had destroyed my world. <p> My husband never acted like cheating was a big deal till after 12 or so years of marriage and many affairs later, I ended up doing just that. But I do remember what it was like, I remember calling her every name I could think of , and frankly was disgusted with the whole thing. So I cant fault you for your feelings and understand why you need to post here. And perhaps I am in the wrong post.
I told OM's wife this morning about this group and asked her to tell me what her thoughts were about all this. She had all those same thoughts of me. She said she decided to learn to accept me, because it was best for my D and it upset her husband when she and I were upset with each other. She has come along way. AND we have a long way to go. She and I think long and hard before we respond to each other so we dont offend. haha
Saying that I understand that it doesnt always work out this way for all. And that just as I would want to stop anything negative from hurting my children I too understand you wanting that as well.
So that being said, I do wish your families good luck and Your marriages deserve all the hard work you are putting into them. As does mine. So I will concentrate on that issue, sometimes this other issue clouds it, since it is so much a part of it.
And any one adopting or putting a baby up for a doption, it is a great choice for any one if it is needed. And someone giving a baby up for adoption because they are not able to care for a little one at this point in there lives, is one of the greatest acts of love. And I do believe, that My xOM's W has shown a great act of love for wanting to love my daughter and learning to respect me as her mother, while still working her [censored] off on her marriage. ( I mean this as a compliment) She even wants to talk to my husband to help him through his troubles, she thinks her husband should apologize to mine, as I have her, although I dont see that happening.
Who knows, we may be trying so hard to get along we are all screwed up. lol all I can say this is life, WE might as well live it.
ok I am sleepy and little one has been sick and very clingy and i am probably not making much sense. <p> For those of you who havent figured it out, I am saying I am sorry.
I do think this is the first time I have said I was sorry to people I dont even know.

Thank you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I think alot of people will appreciate this and I have read alot of your posts...I think you can contribute alot here to those who have contact.
Go get some rest...my son just got over the "Rota Virus"(new one to me!) so I can completely relate!
NGU

Dear MO 5<p>What an absolutely classy post. Thank you so much for acknowledging/understanding what it is I have been trying to say and having the courage to go back in time to remember painful memories in an attempt to empathize. Some might tell you that by being so open minded that your acknowledgment is synonymous with caving or worse, "agreeing". But, we are not agreeing to anything or changing each others' minds...we are only granting the other the right to see and feel things the way we each do and respecting that right.<p>Our opinions and points of view are different and will remain so because of our own unique life history. We will likely disagree on many issues in the future, but this is excellent and wonderful and as it should be! I would hate it if we were all the same! I think you have come to the conclusion that my feelings or others' opinions are not a direct reflection on you at all but simply a perspective from our own life experiences...and that's a good thing. (Did I just sound like Martha?)<p>This is an excellent example of two people with two differing opinions having a meeting of the minds without the icky stuff we have been experiencing on a couple of the other threads and it feels so great. Thank you for making and taking this first step. I am so overjoyed that we can have meaningful exchanges with our own points of view...we will learn much from each other, I know. And that is what this site is all about...<p>Also, we are not strangers here...we DO know each other. In fact, there are many here that know things avout me that my best friend doesn't know or could even comprehend because she wouldn't understand what it is like to be in this situation. You will be amazed at how, in time, you will come to know each of us intimately and we will come to know and understand you and know you well,<p>This IS a safe place in spite of the current disharmony...don't let the squabbling get you down or chase you away. It happens occasionally but it doesn't last.<p>You have been a great example of respectful conversation. I understand your current situation and how you are trying to handle things and I truly am very happy it is working for you. Even though I know your situation wouldn never work in my particular case for a load of reasons, I applaud your success at finding workable solutions. <p>Oh, and I can't sleep either, but I think I can now. I've spent the better part of today pretty wound up. Hahaha<p>This is outstanding, MO5...welcome.<p>Catnip =^^=

You have a great sense of empathy MO5. Thank you.<p>goodandplenty

Mo5 thankyou for sharing.... <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Also, we are not strangers here...we DO know each other<hr></blockquote><p>Catnip, my dearest friend, thanks so much for your wisdom.<p>BTW, you get the "QUEEN" crown now....or should I say "Princess" ?<p>Princess of our forum.<p>Helper to many, including me who thought death would be far better than an oc that ow/H produced during my betrayal.<p>Thank God for Dr. Harley and willing offending spouses who adhere to his principles.<p>Love
Debi

Thanks, Gem, but "Queen" works for me.<p>=^^= =^^= =^^=

Ok...Queen it is!
love
Debi

momof5,<p>Thank you for taking the time for such sweet sentiments. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hate to ask a yucky question given that you've just stuck your heart out here, but do you ever wonder if your H DOES have an OC somewhere and you (or he) just don't know it yet? Given how often he committed the deed, it's a wonder if he doesn't. Unless he was infertile during that time, you might consider the laws of your state and whether an XOW could sue your family for back child support... that practically cripples some families.<p>Truly, I don't bring this up to hurt you, as I never had any intention of hurting anyone, but just for your consideration, to protect your family financially.<p>Godbless,
J

JENNY,
well he can no longer produce children since '87 but I guess it is a possibility, but the state we live in will not consider my income, and if he chose to screw up, then he will suffer the consequences.
we will as well. True, we spent so many years overseas that i doubt its coming. but thanks for the concern.

jenny,
also with as much things we all deal with on a daily basis, I dont think sitting around wondering if husband could have a child out there, would be very productive for me or my marriage. seems it would be a waste of time.
perhaps I should just let that one go untill someone knocks on my door.

Dear MO5,<p>I used to be a very active poster, but only post occasionally these days. I have been through some very hard times over the past six months and I find that most of the posters on MB are in a different place that it is hard for me to relate to. But I was truly moved by your post.<p>You and the XOM's W are very special people -- to be able to have a relationship for the good of your child. That is an accomplishment that I could never have and I envy you. My H has an OC. The OW in my life deliberately got pregnant because my H told her that he was staying in his marraige and going to do everything in his power to work things out with me. In the declining weeks of the affair, she got pregnant and then demanded that he stay with her for the sake of the child.<p>My H refused to leave me, but he was financially responsible for the child and he began, in the beginning, seeing the child. I tried to support him, but I cannot even describe the horrible feelings inside me. For a while I hated them both for the betrayal and the pain they had caused me. I have since learned to forgive but it was a long difficult road.<p>Oddly enough it was my H that made me understand that the OW was also hurting and that her life had not turned out as she had planned. I now feel that my H's bad judgement cost two people an awful lot and caused a great deal of sadness for both of us.<p>For you and the XOM's W to be able to put those feelings aside, talk to each other, and live without fear of each other is a wonderful thing. I wish you every success and happiness.<p>love,
heavenly

heavenly,
we have worked long and hard to get where we are. and I suspect we will have to continue our hard work. We still have hard times, but we can now talk with out all the anger and mess that goes with it. We have never been cross in front of a child, but we have had our moments.
we were all very clear from the start there could be no ill words infront any child, granchild, family member. If there is a big problem, we discuss it in private. If she doesnt feel she can discuss it with me, she ask her husband to and I do the same.
This doesnt happen very often.
She says she truly loves my daughter and wants to be in her life,I owe it to them as well as my daughter to try and do the best job we can.
I try and make sure I AM VERY RESPECTFUL, I always address her first, and we both think long and hard before we speak. ..as you can see by my post, I have strong opinions. lol But they are just that opinions.
I pray we continue to do well in our communication. My daughter is blessed, because everyone thinks she is so wonderful. But it isnt really me who is special, I have learned I have to give her the credit, for even wanting to look at my baby, much less love her as she does.
I hate that so many people here are hurting, I think we have moved past so much of our hurt, we are in a different stage as well.
I think the reason ours is a little different, seems you and most of the betrayed spouses here, not only have dealt with the A , and oc but you have had to deal with the ow wreeking all kinds of havoc to go along with the pain.. makes it hard to learn to forgive.
You should be commended for reaching the stage you have,makes your marriage stronger I am sure.

MO5,<p>[QUOTE]I think the reason ours is a little different, seems you and most of the betrayed spouses here, not only have dealt with the A , and oc but you have had to deal with the ow wreeking all kinds of havoc to go along with the pain.. makes it hard to learn to forgive. [\QUOTE]<p>This is definitely one of the main problems. I tried to support my H by encouraging him to bring the OC to our home. Well, I don't know where the OW thought he was taking the child, but when we brought her home one day and she saw me she hit the roof! She told my H she did not want her child around me and my H was not able to see the child for several years.<p>Children are truly innocent -- it is the parents that make the problems. I know my H scr*wed up royally. But, we have talked about the reasons why he sought another relationship and we have both made the changes in ourselves and our marriage to make it solid again. My H feels terrible that he is not able to see his daughter, but the OW is very bitter about how things turned out and she makes it impossible.<p>I suffered for years over whether or not we should pursue contact. But, there has been so much bitterness between me and the OW, that it was very easy to let the visitation go when she started trouble. The OC looks just like her mom and it was sometimes painful to look into her little face and see the OC. <p>Please make sure that you give your H constant reinforcement. Although I am sure he absolutely accepts the child as his own, he is in a truly tough position and he may have residual pain that nags him occasionally. The same goes for the exOM's W. I am glad that you treat her with kid gloves and are careful with her feelings.<p>But, most of all, take good care of yourself -- you are always performing a balancing act between the two families and that cannot be easy for you. You have a tough path to walk, but in the long run, your daughter will be the winner because of the good sense and tolerance of all the adults involved.<p>love,
heavenly

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mom of five:
[QB]I always address her first, and we both think long and hard before we speak. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Bravo. What a cool diplomatic way of handling the BS, I know if I were she, I would greatly appreciate this gesture. It's those little things like civilized politeness, manners and small kindnesses tyhat defuse potentially destructive situations.<p>Catnip =^^=