Against my wishes, my H took a day last week and spent a whole day with OC. I did not give him permission nor support this decision. I told him if he did this, without considering my feelings about this, I would file for divorce. I am doing that this week.<p>I no longer feel any love for my H. HIs complete disregard for me and what I need from him is glaring. My young child asks why I don't love my H any more, and thinks it is sad he and I don't love each other, says we should love each other. Yes, I agree. but when the WS has an affair, conceives a child, and then disregards my wishes over and over about contact with OC, well, the love goes.<p>My H picks up the OC from OW's home. Talks to OW briefly for pick up and return.Again, against my wishes.Believes he will go to OC's school events in future with OC present, and I will agree.Actually, intends to do just that without my agreement.<p>I see no reason to stay with this man. NOthing.<p>He won't leave the house, I will have to leave. <p>My Kids will lose our home.<p>I want to move far far away.<p>I begged H to go to counseling to try and heal us and deal with OC issues-what we both could agree to. That was before xmas-told him that is all I wanted for xmas from him.<p>He didn't do it.<p>Why should I stay with him?<p>What would the Harley's say about this one?

The Harley's would likely tell you not to divorce, but to move to a Plan B separation. No contact between you and husband. And you need to do this soon, because I don't see too much patience left to deal with your husband's thoughtless behavior. Moving to Plan B would isolate yourself from having to deal with this directly. It'd save the love you still have for him for a bit longer. And it'd give your husband a taste for what divorced really means---but without actually doing it and burning those bridges.<p>So, I'll repeat. Plan B...<p>God bless you, UW.

I agree with K on this,UW. I'd also suggest you have a coaching session with the Harley's. They can help you with the logistics of how to implement Plan B.<p>I'm so very very sorry your H is disregarding and disrespecting your wishes.<p>When I discovered my H was secretly seeing OCs, he and I discussed bringing them and introducing them to the in-laws together. We agreed we'd do it after we both had established a closer relationship with them, but I discovered my H went against our agreement and took them there without me. It was at the urging of OW, because unbeknownst to me, she had already got her hooks into my H (EA/PA) and was at the helm.<p>So I understand your hurt and disappointment fully. Please consider a session with the Harley's pre-Plan B, Hon. It will be $$ well spent.<p>Prayers,
Jo

someone once posted on this forum "Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to be MARRIED?" Believe me I truly understand your not being able to deal with OC just yet. However, i think maybe you should take a minute and reanalyze the situation. I had to learn the hard way that nothing in a marriage should be all one sided. In order to make a marriage work, BOTH spouses feelings/needs should be considered. H messed up BIG TIME by having A and creating OC. But we make the choice to stay with H in spite of that mistake because we love them. maybe your H resents the fact that you feel like he needs your "permission" to see his child. If H feels like he needs to be involved in OC's life and you feel like you can't handle it...where do we compromise? You stayed initially because you love him right? Initially I stayed from a combination of love (it's true what they say..it is an extremely THIN line between love and hate sometimes) and fear that if I DID leave, OW would "WIN" so to speak. i was spiteful and not about to let her have MY H by default. At first I refused to let OC in our lives...but doing so only drove my H away from me. He felt like he needed to be a father to ALL of his children. Before I found MB I LBed my H all over the place all the time. CONSTANTLY throwing the A and the OC in his face. It got to the point where we did get legally separated and divorced. We are still divorced BUT H is back home. After the divorce was finalized in Feb, we were able to talk about things we SHOULD have been able to talk about in the first place. i wanted my H back and told him that I would not interfere with his relationship with OC However I was not ready for a relationship with her. i have just decided to trust H again. that is all I can do. I feel like he wouldn't have come back if he did not want to be with us. H introduced our children to the OC who is 3 years old about to be 4. We have a son 7 and a daughter 9. They met their sister (OC) this past summer. They love her. H will pick up OC and bring her to Our home to play while I am away or H will take our children with him when he goes to pick up OC and take them out for the day. H gets what he needs---being in OC's life and I get what I need---i don't have contact with OC or OW. So far it is working well. Instead of divorcing, can you come to some sort of compromise?

Hi 1 Lost Soul,<p>I don't mean to hijack UW's thread, but I have a question for you. Since your H is in contact with OW regularly via OC visitation, are you not concerned the A has potential to be revisited?<p>I do not mean to frighten you, I just would like to know how you and your H have come to such an agreement of trust. In light that you are opposed to having anything to do with not only OC but OW, I assume she is still a source of contention for you. <p>Thank you in advance for your response.<p>Love and God Bless,
Jo

hi resiliant. I am not that worried about the A rekindling but I don't put anything past them. OW was upset with H because when he first moved into his own apartment when we separated she thought that meant that she and OC coould move in with him. That was NOT the case. Ow/OC still live with her mother. H had a 2 bedroom apartment. OW thought he did that so that OC could have her own room. WRONG! H put furniture in the second BR for OUR kids to stay with him a few nights a week. When OC spent the night with him she stayed in his room with him. OW started acting like SHE was his wife and fussing at him for always being at OUR house. He told her that he didn't take that crap from ME and he damn sure wasn't about to take it from HER. H is a cop and she would get mad because his patrol car would be parked at our house while he was on duty sometimes and he would spend the night at our house even while we were separated. OW was EXTREMELY pissed...I mean EXTREMELY PISSED when H came back home 6 months after the divorce was finalized. She showed her true colors and threatened to take H to court for CS after that. H already gets OC whatever she needs and helps OW pay for daycare and buys her gifts...same things he does for OUR children. He told her to go ahead and file but she wouldn't get near what he was doing for her already. OW dropped the subject. I can't say for sure what H does when I am at work, he is off and the kids are in school, but whenever I call he is always accessable. Since he has been back there has bee no unaccounted for time. I have taken his car keys at 2 in the morning and went through his car to find any evidence of HER but have found nothing. I have checked his cell phone voice mail messages and nothing. <p>OW and OC still are sore spots for me and have caused me some personal issues that before the A I never had a problem with. OW is a different race from us and OC is biracial. to me, it just seemed like a harder slap in the face for me that not only did H have an A but he went outside our race to do so. I hope no one takes this the wrong way because I am NOT racist but it is hard for me to look at biracial children and NOT think of OC/OW.

UW,
Being in the same time frame as you in discovery, I understand how you are feeling.
After disclosing the facts of the A a year ago, H also wanted to be a part of the 2OCs lives. I told him I was not ready for that step yet, I wanted to work on the M. H went ahead against my wishes and started visitation. I did not take part in the visits. The visits never took place with the OW. He would take the 3yr old to parks or a quick dinner or someplace for a couple hour period. After about 7 months I told him I would meet the 3yr old. During those visits without me involved, H would talk about me to her so she would have some sort of clue who I was, and was actually excited to meet me. <p>It was very stressful on my part the first meeting, but it did go well, as did the next couple of visits. The youngest was born this summer so she was not included yet in visits. After a year now both OC are included in the visits. <p>I still wish there was no contact, but I want to remain in the M, so there have been many compromises along the way. H has started a new visitation schedule that I can live with. One night a week for 3 hours, and one weekend day a month. I don't always stick around for the visits, and that is ok with H. I greet the children, play for about an hour or so depending on my mood, or that of the OC, then leave, or go to another part of the house. The idea being that H can have his visits in a safe environment, no involvement with OW other than the hand off at the end of the visits, and I usually am alone for the ride. I don't want him to have to sneak around to have a visit. It is all planned out. <p>UW, I understand all too well your feelings, I have them also, I don't want to be involved with the OC, but then I don't like the alternative either. So for now I am trying it for the sake of the M. Unfortunately I am not really a kid person, and I have already raised my children (22 &19) I have my house the way I like it, the nick nacks are down, the carpet is new, and I am old, too dang old to go thru this again, so yes I do resent it, but someone here on this board keeps saying "fake it till you make it" i am trying, hope it works. <p>As long as I am involved in these visits, I don't really have any fear that the A will start up again. But I do keep very close tabs on H. Won't be long till the work situation will be over also, unfortunately it was H who was let go. Then our only communication with OW will be thru emails. <p>UW, how close does OW and OC live to you? are you in the same town? Have you talked to any of your family, and will they be supportive? I ask this because I am doing this on my own. I refuse to tell my family, thank goodness they live across the country. I have no outside support, which makes it very difficult, and it has not really become public knowledge. That I am dreading. My situation could very possibly change if I can not handle the public humiliation. So I guess you can see I am really sitting on the fence here, and can fall either way very easily. <p>Tina

For me, it is not about being right vs. married. It is about being thought of, considered, not hurt by the man who is supposed to be the one who does not deliberately harm me. The affair by itself has about destroyed my relationship with my H. He had a several year affair, and kept the existence of the OC away from me for years, I think because he knew that would be the end of our marriage. He and I have been together a long time and both of us know each other well. Again, he kept the A and OC hidden from me so he could still be married to me and have sex with OW. Selfish, yes? and very hurtful to me.<p>I cannot tolerate OC in my home, with my kids, in my life. That child's existence is too much a reminder of the pain my husband perpetrated on me. Now that he is openly doing what he wants with OC , and sees OW too, knowing my wishes which have been made clear to him, shows me how little he cares about how what he does affects me.<p>That is the reason no compromise is possible. My H took the part of me that could compromise when he willingly made decisions about what he would do about OC as if he is a single man making decisions only for himself. A marriage is not about two single peoplem making unilateral decisions, it is about a couple coming together and being one.<p>My H disrupted the one long ago-when he started the A. ANd his behavior now does not show me he wants me at all.<p>I am just giving him what he has wanted all along.<p>A call to Harley's is probably a good idea, as I will need to move out since H will not, and I intend to take our children with me.
I still plan to file separation papers.<p>Let him see how happy he is without our children in his daily life, and the CS payments he will pay to me and OW.<p>He won't have hardly any money to live in. I saw a lawyer last summer and know what he will pay me.
I still get a sizable CS, very little alimony, but with his high CS to OC, he will barely have money to live.<p>I hope the sex was worth it.

UW
I also understand the long A, H's was over 5 years, and we have been married 27 years. I did have clues, but both he and OW denied them, and stupidly I believed them. <p>Tina

UW,<p>I have a question for you. Lets say you go to Plan B, your H agonizes over losing you and the kids, and tells you he wants to make things right .... What would it take to make things right by you?<p>Jo

What would it take it to be right for me? A number of things:<p>1. No contact with OC while we are working on restoring our marriage. I have asked for this for a year since I found out about this all. H has never agreed to this.When he did, briefly, he returned to secret visits with OC while I still believed we were working to restore our marriage.Even our MC together was about incorporating OC into our life somehow, not about restoring my love and my h's love for me.We had different agendas for marriage counseling, and H eventually quit the counseling, especially when two of the counselors we saw thought he was making bad decisions for us.<p>2.Spend time with me. Woo me. Act as if he cares for me, outside of the bedroom. Put time and attention towards our marriage. We haven't had any dates since discovery.<p>3. No contact with Ow. no emails, no cards, no phone cards, etc. I have asked him repeatedly this, and he still emails her briefly to arrange contact. He doesn't even have the decency to copy me on emails. ANd he sees OW when he picks up OC. doesn't even arrange a 3rd party, again, despite my request.<p>4.Consider moving out of area.H has refused, mainly claiming can't get a job elsewhere due to age and recession. But he never tried, never even put any effort into it to at least let me think he would do anything to save us. IF he tried, at least I knew he would consider it. INstead he refuses to leave area, since OC is here.<p>5. No contact with OC until or unless we come to some agreement we both can live with. He has contact without this agreement from me. I would probably agree to less than he wants now, but some, if I felt he did the above for a period of time. Right now I see my needs are at bottom of totem pole.<p>6. Protect my assets. He has refused to protect our money from OC's inheritance. Fact is, half of our money, he claims is his, but I do not feel that half should be set aside for OC, as most of that money was built up when he and I had no kids or years before OC was born. I helped him get that money, I don't want him to give it to the OC.<p>7.Tell OW he will have no contact with her, even if he has contact with OC. That he will never be in her presence when he sees OC .That he will copy any email to her, or phone calls to her, only when absolutely necessary, in my presence only. That I am his first priority.Right now she believes, and writes me repeatedly, that OC is his first priority.<p>8.Get a new bedroom, remodel our home, or get a new home. He had sex in our home with her on numerous occasions, in our bed. SHe stayed in our home while we were on vacation. OUr home is forever tainted by the affair, for me.<p>9. Go back to marriage counseling, with an excellent counselor.There is a specialized counseling center near us that deals with much infidelity. H refused to continue with counselors there as the initial counselor we saw was harsh with him. I thought counselor was good-especially to bring out H's issues. He refused further counseling. I have begged for continued counseling since first of year. I have yet to see him make an appoinment.<p>That is for starters. So far, I doubt H will do any of it. <p>What do you think of my requests anyone?

Well, I'm not surpised at what your needs are. I think most of it is pretty reasonable.<p>The reason I asked this UW, is I suspect the Harley's will ask you the same question, so you should be prepared.<p>I would hope that "IF" one day your H sincerely wants to recover and build a new marriage that he will explore the conditions you have set in your mind and take them to heart. But in the same token, I would hope that you would be able to recognize he is indeed sincere and be open in a POJA sense to perhaps bend or compromise a bit on some of your needs that would make things right by you and your children.<p>When his actions match his words is when you'll know he is sincere, UW. <p>Please remember, I have been there too. So I really do know your hurt, your anger and your humiliation. If I had it to do over again, I would have done whatever was necessary for my H to feel safe to be honest with me. RADICALLY HONEST with me. He and I could have saved ourselves so much heartache if he would have been forthright in his feelings regarding the OCs.<p>God Bless,
Jo

I may have an appointment with Harley's on Friday, but wonder what about other's opinions on this thread! I would appreciate any input.Thanks.

UW<p>PLAN B!<p>Also, I presented a laundry list to my husband similar to yours the first week he came home. He agreed to it and has done almost everything on it, including attending a Retrouvaille weekend, which I cannot recommend highly enough.<p>The only thing I would have done differently would be about the house...I would have set a match to it. haha<p>Catnip =^^=

UW,<p>I think the list is a reasonable place to start too. Again, you don't want to push this across as a "take it or leave it" (selfish demand), but you do want to let your husband know where you stand on these issues. Hopefully he will be able to let you know where he stands as well. Then the negotiation process starts, and you brainstorm until you come to (enthusiastic?) agreement, or you do "nothing". For your situation, you need to be in Plan B---nothing in that case is status quo, and it'll do the best job protecting what love remains for your husband.

Just a quick question- Have you ever been able to tell your husband everything that is on your list? I don't know if you Plan B before or after you tell him your list, but I think it's important that you somehow express ALL of your desires to your husband. I personally think your list is completely reasonable. <p>But I also know that if I started telling my husband that list, then he would stop listening and he would loudly and angrily interrupt. He would try to completely hog the discussion and stop me from telling him my list. And I think it would be because he thinks he already knows what it is. Your husband may be the same way. He may think he already knows what you want. I thought I did too. I thought you were completely unwilling to ever allow him to see oc. But looking at your list, I can see that you are willing to compromise. If he actually sees your whole list and that you are willing compromise, then he might be willing to consider your list. <p>To get my husband to actually hear something that he doesn't want to approach, I have to write it down. You might try that with yours. And when you give it to him, let him know that it is only a starting point for discussion. I personally don't think you will be the one giving in. But if you say it that way, then he would be more likely to at least read the whole thing. At least mine would. Just a thought...good luck.