After the scars of infidelity, then throwing in dealing with a Child from the A, and having to cope w/ Ow because of the baby...Have any of you gotten to the point where you are really happy again, and are glad you stayed in your marriage? <p>After trying so hard w/ WH for 14 months, and then finding out last week he is still lieing, he's been talking to Ow on phone while telling me he didnt have her number or know where she lived.<p> OW's H called me last week and told me they moved 1200 miles back to our town, My H didnt tell me till I confronted him that I knew. He said he hadnt seen her, but I spoke w/ her and she said she had seen him twice...then he admitted it....I dont believe there is a physical relationship, but they do have an addiction to talking w/ each other and in 2 yrs have never gone more than 3 months without communication between them. I consider it an emotional A, and I am really, really, tired of it all, and for the first time am beginning to wonder if it is worth it to try any longer.<p>Since it's all came to light about their meetings (which of course they say are only @ the baby) Ow's H has moved out and gone to another state. I am in plan B for the second time, after having kicked him out with many love busting angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements stated in the loudest voice I have. <p>I was sitting down last night to write the Plan B letter to H, saying all the nice things about loving him and waiting for him to get his head together & sorry of the outburst etc...<p>But today I really dont feel like I should give it to him. I feel like its one more time I have had to humble myself to make this thing work, while he continues w/ his dishonesty...and for the first time I truely feel like I cant trust a word he tells me. If he never saw or talked w/ her again I dont think I would believe him.<p>I feel in my heart that a nice letter would help put things in a positive direction again, but for how long? And for how long do you keep putting your heart on the line?<p>Did any of you come thru this up & down....How long did it last? Are you glad you waited it out? <p>I cant believe I will ever feel trusting and loving toward him again.

I just wanted to say that yes we are happy but I have not been through the hell that you are going through. My H had a one night stand, and we moved states away from that nightmare to re-start our life. We are now expecting our second child, and except for the pinch I see every month with the cs, I have tried to move past it as much as possible. I am so sorry you are still going through this.<p>I will keep praying for you, and wishing you and your family the best.<p>babstr.

heart of hope, no, I am not happy. Haven't been for more than a year. I have a H like yours-not truthful, not doing much of what I have asked from him in the last year. He continues to do as he pleases regarding OC, and hasn't shown me anything of the kind of love I want from him. I have a feeling that once he told me, he always knew I would end it--he just didn't want to be the one to initiate divorce. I am starting separation paper work this week, and finally feel in charge. I want out of this life. I want to start anew. I want out of H's weird life. I don't want him anymore.

by the way, it seems as if the only people truly happy on this board on the ones who have no contact with OW or OC. Just my opinion. I wish my H would get that.

Heart of Hope,<p>Yes, I AM happy with my marriage; but I never went through what you are going through now. My DH recommitted to the marriage almost immediately after DDay, (which was prior to OC's birth); though the A went on over a year, he had wanted out of it for months. We also don't have to deal with XOW/OC being in the same area; our only contact is via mail.<p>I think the big issue for you is what you are going through is not recovery. Obviously your DH is not putting your marriage first. I'm so sorry for your contining pain. I hope you call the Harleys for their advice, for plan A or B or whatever is appropriate. They would know the best Next Step for you. I hate to see marriages end, but I also believe not 100% can be saved. A marriage does ultimately take TWO people trying, not just one (though the Plan A/B thing does get some results). <p>I sincerely hope professional help will get your marriage on the right track again. I really think its worth the $$<p>Prayers,
J

[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

HoH-
I am happy some days and doubtful others. My H has been tremendously supportive of our marriage since before D-day. It just became more obvious after D-day. H allows me to have those good and bad days. He allows me even now to discuss my "flashbacks" openly and honestly with support and lots of hugs at the end.
Is it perfect? Certainly not!
Is it better? No, just different in a good way.
The only major difference I see with our marriage and all those who are happy is that both the BS and the WS are focused on the marriage. They both have POJA and are doing their best with that. They both have brutal and total honesty and there are no lies.
I wish you the best, but if your H doesnt get his head out of his a$$, he is going to lose you.
Do you and he ever go to counseling? Does he get it at all? Good luck! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

catnip, I am going to print out your post on this thread and show it to my husband. My H does not have a certifiable mental illness, as yours does, but he has done much with what he has done to me. I too never before doubted his trust, his faithfulness to me. That he could so easily break that has hardened my soul. Now, I know we were drifting away after I had much sought after children after a very long marriage childness. I focused on the kids, not much on him. And I know I didn't meet his sexual needs for a very long time.<p>But the fact he didn't discuss this with me, just went out and surfed the net and met OW to meet his needs disgusts me. And has robbed me of the man I once loved. I have lost him forever. I believe he did get addicted to the excitement of these women on line , and besides the main OW, he had a few one night stands with other women. He spent many a night on line while I lay waiting for him in our bed. I thought he was working, as he often did, and trusted him enough not to explore his surfing. I was so stupid, so naive, so believing. The fact he shared his dissatisfaction with me with the OW really bothers me, besides the obvious. And now when I look over those years he was with her, I see how his involvement with her, even though it was only a few hours per week, took much from us. He got addicted to her, or whatever, and left me. Left us a long time ago.With the birth of OC, he got stuck, and in over his head. ANd now we are both stuck with that image forever.<p>I don;t think I am the same woman either. I too was very confident, happy, a good mother. I now have days I am sad and crying, and I cannot tell my kids I love their father and be honest. I don't trust my H. I have lost total respect for him, and him having contact with OC has not increased my respect for him but has just bred resentment. I know the OW wanted him as her child's father, and she is getting what she wants. I however, have lost so much I don't think I can get it back.<p>when someone meets my H for the first time, and state he is nice, I no longer reply a simple "Yes". I used to be proud of him, happy to have him as my husband. I no longer am. ANd that saddens me in a way that pains me daily. I feel sad my children will have a father with such fraility in his character that he destroyed their parents' love. I wish I didn't have kids with him, except for the fact we do make beautiful children together. That he knew how many miscarriages I had to get us our children, and he so foolishly and easily conceived that child with oW pains me in a way I can never recover.That he has said OW is as good as mother as I--has he seen her angry at the child, been a ***** like other mothers at times, etc. hurts me beyond measure.That he actually compares me to her wounds me daily.<p>No, I am not the same person. I did so want to be a role model to my daughter, and now I do not know which direction to take. Stay with a man I no longer respect or value, and hope some of that comes back, or divorce and hope to find something like that with someone else. I am not unattractive, look years younger than I am, and am in great shape. NOt said to boast, but just as fact, to indicate I believe another man could find me appealing. But, like you, catnip, I still have memories when my H and I were completely trusting of each other, loved each other in a completely comfortable way if not passionate, and I miss that. I miss the old married kind of love, and now I have none of that. I can't even look at him and not feel on some level hurt daily. <p>I don't know how some of you feel you have better marriages after discovery than before. I do not. ANd I don't think it will come back.<p>So what is the answer?

<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

To Catnip...WOW! you are certainly articulate and hit the nail on the head w/ so much that you said about how you can feel, and why you stay. My H too ended up in bed w/ a girl 1/2 my age that he had just met. <p>Do you guys know "your" OWs very well? My H has been very open and answered every question I have ever asked him about her. That, coupled with my own experiences with her over the past 14 months, and I feel I have a pretty good handle on who she is and what shes all about. When I look at this girl I can so clearly see she is the polar opposite of anyone my H would ever like. If she were unatractive, her personality alone would have turned him off. I dont know how he doesnt see this because he use to be such a perceptive person. I dont say this out of jealousy, or bitterness, only that I know him so well. I know if he ever ended up with her it would never last. (For one thing she has two wild boys and at 45 my H hasnt the patience for that anymore.) So how did H let this totally incompatible person make a train wreck out of our lives? That is the question that is hard to answer. <p>Yes we went to counseling for 4 months. That was at the beginning. We stopped because he would dredge up stuff we had already resolved and we would be refighting old issues. I left feeling worse than when I went in. I have requested now, that we go again, because I cannot see how things will just put themselves back together.<p>He tells me the feels sorry for her. She had a lousy background, and reconsilled w/ her H that she says is a jerk and she doesnt love him. He feels guilty that he left her w/ another child to care for. He feels responsible in some way to see that she is ok, and that she has someone with whom to discuss her problems. SHe is one of those girls that other women dont like much because she comes across as very cold.<p>I told him his only responsibility is to the OC. She made the bad decision & got preg w/ a MM's child. She opted to keep the baby and raise it herself. I say she made her choice, and he made his...to stay w/ his family and they should just accept things as they are and move on. I explained that a big part of their A was phone calls. On one cell phone bill he had dialed her # 118 time that month. I dont know how many of the incoming calls were hers to him. But that is what a phone call w/ her makes me think of, and I relate it closely to an emotional affair. Knowing she was long distance did not make me feel any better about her calls. Now that shes back It feels unbearable. I hate it as much as if she was sleeping with him.<p>When I first found out he promised to quit seeing and talking to her. (she was still here.) That didnt work and his excuse was he wanted to make sure her pregnancy went alright. She left when she was 5 months along & reunited w/ her H who took her back and was fine w/ my H's involvement in OC's life. I told him she could call home if she need to discuss anything w/ him, but that never happened. In Oct., when I found out the cell calls were still going on, I was so angry I moved out for 3 months. I asked him to tell her to call the house if she needed anything and to change his cell # and not give it to her. He did and by Jan I felt comfortable enough to move back home. That is the month he insisted going to see OC. We flew there, had to see OW to see OC. She refused to leave babys side and I spent 4 days with the 3 of them, but was gracious, never leaving H's side except the 1/2 hr I gave the alone in the lobby before we left. That is the same month, unbeknown to me, she started calling him again. When I learned of the calls this week He continued to deny that he even had a number for her &he denied giving his cell # to her, saying someone she knows here must have seen it on the side of his truck and told her. It wasnt until her H told me he was present when my H would call, that I realized what was going on. I presented the facts and finally he admitted he had had her # all along and had given her his new #. When I found out she was here (on a Wed) he told me she had just called him that day and he was going to tell me that night. I asked him if he had seen her and he said "no" Every day when he came home from work I would ask him if he saw or spoke with her and he would say no, he didnt have her number and when she would call him she would call block the #. In talking to OW (who didnt know what he had told me) She said that he had acttually met him the Tues. before I found out she was here. See what I mean, so many devious lies.<p>H says, for the three weeks shes been here, he has had an opportunity to see a different side of her. He said he doesnt feel what he did for her, and even if we did get a divorce he would never marry her. He said he didnt know she was moving here and was shocked by it, especially since he had been talking to her long distance and she could have told him.(I seriously question this) He said the other day he told her she had to work things out with her husband, and that he didnt want to get in the middle of her troubles. He said hes afraid of ticking-her-off because as flighty as she has shown herself to be, he's afraid she'll disappear w/ the OC. He says he wants to work things out with me, that hes sorry for the calls, and meeting her behind my back. He said it was all to get info and to see OC. Im hut because knows how strongly I am against him seeing her alone. And he knows I would have gone with him to see OC. I realize he just didnt want me there. It is ackward for him, and he wanted a mommy-daddy moment. I resent that, and feel like its stuff like that that Ill never get over.( When you first learn of the A. You think that is the worst, but really its the lies and deceit that suck the life out of any love you have left for them after the initial shock.) He said they werent alone. They met at a fastfood restaurant and her boys were there too.<p>Its the lie and deciet that hurt so much, not the circumstances.<p>The four of us met the other day, B4 her H left town saying they were getting a divorce. My H told her while I was sitting there that she can no longer speak to him, and asked who she wanted to w/ me, his sister, his Mom, her friend, Who? She said me. (Shes said that B4 too and then refuses to call, write, return text messages, nothing.)<p>Now there is no way I can believe H , even if he really means it this time.<p>I have always seen our family as unbreakable. H was bound to me as closly as a mother or father, or sister or brother or child. It never occured to me that our relationship was disposable. And I just keep seeing him as a boy who got himself in trouble and keeps making the wrong choice in order to make things easy on himself hoping noone will notice the bad things hes done. Its like he needs me to explain why this is wrong or right, why this will and wont work, what we had -vs- what hed have with her. I am so tired of reasoning w/ him I could spit....and I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard him say, "I didnt think of that?"<p>Surprisingly, as Ive heard you both say, Alcohol was involved w/ both your men. My husband hadnt had a drop to drink in 13 years, but this has started him again too. I havnt seen him overdo it, but I know that day could come, and I couldnt tolerate that again. In every other way he is responsible,& respectable. We own several businesses and he would never lie or cheat a customer (only me) He has a good reputation in the community. I have always respected him for his honor. That is laughable now. One of our businesses was started in the middle of all this and he had his business cards printed with the slogan "honesty, integrity and consistancy." What was he thinking?!!! I've heard it said that we dont see ourselves the way others do, and in this case it must be true!<p>I feel if he would quit all contact w/ Ow he would be able to redirect his efforts back to me. He knows I am willing to make necessary changes to meet his needs, all I ask is that OW deal w/ me, my mother in law, sister in law, daughter...anyone but him about OC. I am even willing to bring OC into our home and make her a part of our family. She looks just like my daughter so it isnt like Ill be looking at a little OW. He thinks I am being unreasonable about the no contact forever issue, (He mentioned this as another reason for the secret phone calls which he said meant nothing to him other than to check up on OC, and that he kept secret because he didnt want to hurt me. I told him it was that kind of thinking that concealed the A.) wheather I am being unreasonable or not, at least he should put forth the supreme effort of trying to make it work.<p>I DID write and give him the Plan B letter. I told him I could not now, or ever share him with another woman, and I could not live with her shadow between us. That I loved him too much, and that I know he would never want me to have private, personal conversations with a guy friend, no matter how innocent it was. I said I would give him 6 months (double the longest time he has gone w/out speaking to her) to see if he could actually give up talking to and seeing her. If he could I would consider opening up my heart and trying to trust him agian. If not, we would already have a good look at what divorce would be like. I said if he reached a definitive conclusion prior to that, he should let me know and I would reconsider what I wanted to do. We have a disabled son, & he must come home to help shower him several times a week, but I told him I would disappear while he was around, and that I would avoid him as much as I could ( which is hard cause of our businesses too) not because I hated him or anything, but because I didnt want to put undo pressure on him while he was "getting in touch with his feelings!"<p>I figured, what the heck, what do I have to lose trying one more thing.<p>I think your letters have helped me to appreciate that for our own mental health, and happiness we may get to the day when we want to walk, but I think I'll know that day when it comes. And all this incredible aggrevation of giving, giving, giving and getting so little in return, will make that day easier. Sad, but easier.<p>Thanks for your total and open honesty. At least here I know Ill get that. At least here I feel normal for a few mins.<p>I wish we could all get together and just give each other a big hug and just cry in front of some one who cares and wants to comfort us. I dont know how many times Ive cried and H just sits there and stares at me. To quote a famous line...Where is the love?!!<p>Love to you all. Hope all your situations work out eventually for your best health and happiness.

Extremely happy and thrilled to be in love with a different and better man than I married.<p>I too am different, I'm a better woman and wife than I ever dreamed possible.<p>
Catnip,<p>I'm sorry you deleted your posts before I read them. You always have an interesting spin on things.<p>Z. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Babstr, ZebraB, Tryin4: Thanks for the positive comments. It gives me hope things might still work out. Most times H is so sincere I can barely believe he lied again. During the sincere times he makes me think it can still work.

Heart of Hope,
I kinda felt a kinship with you, although our situations are different, as we were waiting for our DNA tests at the same time.<p>I know that it can be better. I was afraid to believe that the good times I had with Mr."T" would stay. It takes time and a willingness for both H and W to committ.<p>I had to finally make up my mind to give Mr. "T" a chance to prove himself. I had to make up my mind to do my part. I and Mr. "T" knew, that he got "One get out of jail free" card and that was it. I had to trust a little bit and little by little he's working on depositing more trust in my "Bank of Fidelity and Trust"...<p>I pray for you and wish you the best,
Hugs,
Twiisty

HeartofHope,
I'm here to say that I am more happy now then before when "a" was going on.
Back then I felt so confused to why my H was being downright cruel at times. Always had a sinking feeling but not knowing why.<p>Now it's heaven again, really. Except for a small trigger or two, which I quickly try to extinguish from my mind. My H acts as he did when we were first dating. He's met all of my emotional needs. Took a while, but he does.<p>We enjoy times together like the "old days" [30 odd years ago]. He's remorseful....so very sorry and he shows it. I've forgiven the betrayal but will never forget the pain. It does get better w/poja, willingness, and filling each others lovebanks each day with something as small as a hug.<p>I know he thanks God for the 2nd chance.
Me too.<p>Hey, Catnip, why did you delete your words of wisdom before I read em?
What's up with that? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope it's helped you HoH.<p>Gotta tell you though until I felt H was totally committed, it was rough.<p>love
Debi

I'm sorry, Gem. I was really writing to HOH and UW and I was worried my post was too negative...my state of mind has been really crappy lately...and I just seemed to go on and on and on. I was tired of hearing myself and scaring myself all at one.<p>Sometimes I need to just sit back and shut up. Besides, it really wasn't anything you haven't heard before...for the hundreth time! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip:<p>I like your posts too. SOmetimes what we feel is negative and thats ok. I like this site just for that reason. In venting here, I dont have to do it at home and bring all the negativity out in my life. <p>As for rambeling...I have to rival you on that! I wish I could just write a nice consice little post. Im always going on and on, like eveyone wants to hear my life story in one sitting! Thanks for letting me do it anyway.<p>Hope things are better today.

Dear catnip,
You have mood swings just like all the rest of us. Say what you will and just stick by your convictions. Ignore those who don't and won't understand no matter how much you try to clarify. You can't argue with those who don't go by the same "rules" as you do--it's pointless. Your presence is celebrated here and your thoughts well-received. Everyone is on a road to improvement and we all have up days and down days along the way... don't worry! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

And I know this was not a question targeted to OW with OC's, but I would just like to say that I am happy that I decided to keep my oldest son.<p>I am happily married now and applying MB concepts to my marriage, protecting myself from my weaknesses. H is supportive stepdad of OC and a great, godly role model.<p>I regret having an affair with a MM, but my life took a turn for the better as a result of the pregnancy.<p>I do not blame them for no contact, actually, it was a relief not to face the BS ever, you know, (a little bit) less humiliation.<p>My 3 kids all have serious health issues and I attribute it to my wayward lifestyle. However, God has been good to us and everyone is well-adjusted and basically happy. MM is still married & no more CS for them to think about! I'm sure they are happy about that!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] They don't have to worry about OC knocking on their door either! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I'm sure that makes them happy!<p>My heart is out to those of you who are not happy. It will get better for you. We just have to keep "trusting God even when life gives us reasons not to." (Corrie Ten Boom) Keep the faith!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by heart of hope:
[QB]Catnip:<p>As for rambeling...I have to rival you on that! I wish I could just write a nice consice little post. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>A concise little post? What's that?<p>Sometimes when I get writing, it is like I can't stop. I love to write and am in the middle of writing some stuff that I hope to publish. But, in the meantime, it's like I just gotta write, write, write. And I know I can get redundnat. The good thing is that no one HAS to read them if they don't want to. I basically do this for myself to purge demons or to help someone else. But, with that comes a responsibility and when I feel I am not offering anything constructive to Newbies, after rereading the reply and find it's negative or dark, I delete. Besides, I am concerned with the snail's pace of my recovery. The evolution just isn't happening. Part of it is writing about stuff that happened almost four years ago and living with it like it just happened today and feeling all that old pain...so this book is problematic for me in a lot of ways...it sometimes keeps me from moving forward. But, this too is temporary.<p>The long posts aren't going to change...I appreciate how everyone is so tolerant of the blah, blah, blah.<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>Dear catnip,
You have mood swings just like all the rest of us. Say what you will and just stick by your convictions. Ignore those who don't and won't understand no matter how much you try to clarify. You can't argue with those who don't go by the same "rules" as you do--it's pointless. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sticking by my convictions isn't going to change. I'm pretty rigid on that because I have spent so much time examining and reexamining the facts, and for me...<p>I didn't delete because I was afraid someone didn't agree with me, I deleted because I felt what I had written was or could be too negative for someone suffering. Besides, I love to argue and debate and appreciate other peoples' opinions. Everyone has their own set of rules, values and moral compass.<p>Catnip =^^=