<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
[QB]When us WS say something that others do not like or understand this is the reaction. <p>=^^= Cmiranda...ya know, I have come to loves ya, Honey, yes I have. In fact, I have decided to make it my mission in life to be your buddy (please accept my morning catch as a peace offering and gift) but, it is imperitve I point out to you, that you, sweet Cmiranda, that you have to be one of the biggest reactionaries on this site. Until just recently, your responses to things you didn't like hearing was "attack mode" complete with disrespectful judgments. You have already come so far keeping in mind that when we speak about the OW we don't mean you personally and when we whine about the OC situation, we are not speaking hatefully about OC directly...just this horrible, miserable alteration in our lives. I think you are incredibly awesome and getting better and more courageous by the moment. I see a lot of growth in you. But, please, Cmiranda...we all have reactions when the buttons are pushed...and it is OK, really. Really it is. <p>We do find ourselves and our clarity through these 'debates' and I for one, would hate a site where we all politely agreed and no one evolved, no one improved, no one healed, and no one reached an understanding or came to some pivotal point in their lives where they looked to the heavens and shout "halleluah! I've got it...I have found my touch stone, I have found my solution". <p>I want everyone to stop worrying about 'fighting' or 'disagreements' or 'button pushing' on this site and concentrate on finding solutions. Yes, these debates are sometimes and often uncomfortable, but so what? Life is unpleasant and uncomfortable sometimes...we all KNOW that...we are all living that. We can take a little unsettling debate to find what ever it is we need to find to recovery and to heal. After what we have been through, this is cake.<p>As soon as we all learn diplomacy and incorporate respect into our repsonses, any harsh responses will be taken in the spirit within which it was intended...without any offense intended...just insight. Sometimes a little harshness is necessary to get a point across.<p>Cmiranda sez: We all have needs, sex is one of them. Good, passionate, toe curling sex. <p>When it became sexual, look out because it was better than just good. In part because we were good together, but more so because of the emotional energy which was off the charts.<p>=^^= This is what Bipolar and I have always had. That's why I am so confused. He told me that OW was a log...I hope he's not lying. I'd hate to think it was this good for him with her...in fact, that would really upset me. But then, they only had sex less than five or six times and except for the initial thrill of being bad or foirbidden, I am counting on the logisitics of intense sex that comes from strong emotional attachment to have not been there. there just wasn't enough time or contact for it to have evolved inot something fabulous. I hope. I wouldn't want him pining away for her or reminsicing about those times.
QB]<hr></blockquote><p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catnip:<p>Catnip,<p>And I thought you were off getting all fancied up and relaxed... gee wiz!!
I didn't mean to fire you up catnip. I do feel that when buttons get pushed, people go into defense mode. I do it. We all seem to do it. All I hope for is that the minority, the WS, don't stop posting because of it. There is safety in numbers and we ws do not have that here. I stick my neck out but I'm used to getting yelled at and I'm not afraid of the reactions that I get. They help me to see another perspective and I do need that perspective to help me when I tell my H. But some will be scared off. I know, they must be wimps. But really, we need a well rounded view to make us all think out of the box sometimes.<p>I don't see any reason why you should doubt what your H told you about A. You know when you have that emotional connection with someone. If you feel it with him then it is not a lie. I didn't have that with my H. That is why the sex was not off the charts. It was my brain in control, not other body parts. If he and ow were together that little, it couldn't have been that great. <p>I was with my ex for many years and I have no idea how often we were together during that time. Alot, 1-2 times a week. It was more about the emotional connection being fed. It drove the sexual stuff. That is what I learned. EA are extremely dangerous for this reason in my experience. By the time it turned PA, holy smoke, we were out of control. 2 rational, fairly intellegent adults, doing it in places and being seen in places that didn't make any sense and spending way too much time together, because we were overcome by our emotions. The more we gave the more we wanted more.
We were distraught because the A was ruining our marriages. We stopped the sex for a while but the emotional stuff drew us back time and again.
Catnip, I do not miss the tangled emotional pull. I feel free finally to be out of it and not controlled by it. I would bet anything that your H feels happy it finally is over too, whatever degree of involvement he had. Believe me, as a WS, there is ALOT of relief once the fog starts to clear. Time diminishes our memories, he is making new memories with you. Besides you are right I believe, without that strong emotional attachment, I too would seriously doubt that he has much to remember b/w them.

(((((((((((((((((K)))))))))))))))))))))))<p>I can't give you a personal hug, and someone with your sense of ethics and morals probably wouldn't allow it, so here's a cyberhug.<p>I admire you a lot! Your wife is one lucky lady to have such a loving husband.

Say Husbandsside, I'll tell you what ... you will ALWAYS be looking for a better blow job if you don't start examining what your part is in your marriage's deterioration. OF COURSE sex with OW was nirvana, it was NEW, FORBIDDEN, EXCITING, A SECRET, A FANTASY.<p>No where in your post did I read where you admitted to your mistakes in the marriage, aside from having the A. What was your part in the marriage's deterioration??? Or were you perfect?<p>Try this on for size ... Marry OW and on your 15th wedding Anni tell us how you feel about SEX with her as your W compared to when you where having the A with her as OW when hiding it.<p>One more thing, this "Just get over it (Pain)" thing you TOUT so LOUD, Harley says you can base the success of recovery of an A on the REMORSE and EMPATHY the WS has for the BS. Your JUST GET OVER IT attitude says volumes regarding your love and empathy for your wife, or lack thereof. She is a feeling vunerable human being, not a BJ machine there for you when you need servicing.<p>If you're here to Marriage Build, since this is a Marriage Builders' forum, read and learn the principles. Then perhaps post after you have brutally and honestly examined yourself and your part.<p>God Bless,
Jo<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by husbandsside:
<strong>Listen, if you don't want your man to cheat. Perform oral sex often. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>As you can see from the responses...this is not a problem for the majority of people here. <p>Maybe it's YOUR problem...maybe you aren't...um...clean enough for your wife?!?!?

Husbandsside,<p>Please re-read the two below quotes from you. They seem to contradict one another.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Husbandsside wrote:
Ladies, there are a variety of reasons that men cheat but the bottom line is we have needs as well and it usually ends up in a sexual affair but it almost always starts EMOTIONALLY<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Husbandsside wrote:
Listen, if you don't want your man to cheat, Perform oral sex often. I guarentee it.<hr></blockquote><p>So which is it, Husbandsside .... your A was spawned by emotions? Or was it purely sexual (BJ)?<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi everyone,<p>Instead of reposting here, HusbandsSide edited his orhiganl post at the top of this thread and apologized for some of his comments. Who knows, he may have posted at a very angry moment. Anyway what he ammeded his first post to say is much more reasonable.<p>MJ

Husbandside,<p>You haven't offended me, but I'm not a BS. I feel alot of the same things that you do and realize it more after reading your edited post. My A started for the same reasons. You also sound hauntingly similar to my ex-om relative to why he was vulnerable to me. You have alot of insight that I feel is necessary around here.
Please feel free to share your thoughts and run them past us here. We all need eachother. There is alot to be gained as you say -for us all.

husbandside, I have a few questions for you. You said your wife found out about A and OC a year ago.Baby was then one, right/So why did your wait so long to tell her of child?What is your wife's response to all this?Were you intending to leave wife and marry OW? do you have other children?Are you paying CS?
What are you doing to heal your marriage/I would like to know.

Well, sorry but your 'explanation' doesn't work for my situation. My H and I had a great sex life (he even told his close male friend that he'd never have to leave me for sex, he had great sex at home). Well, that didn't stop him from having sex with my former best friend, including bringing her into my house and my bed.<p>He had sex with her, then with me (I didn't know) and then with her. Great way to spread stds.<p>I can understand if someone feels their ENs aren't being met, but if you don't know it, how can you fix it? And why go elsewhere for sex when you're getting it almost everyday at home?<p>I'm sorry, but the word SELFISH seems most appropriate.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by husbandsside:
<strong>The reason I say get past the pain and move forward is negative thinking does no good.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm... I agree with this, but it is a process and not according to the WS' or anyone else's timetable whether they are male or female. Only the person in pain can measure their pain. Only God's grace can help us move forward. What if the BS doesn't know how???? Barking this command at them won't speed it up, as I'm sure you have already discovered...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by husbandsside:
<strong>YES, I have a personality flaw...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Personality flaw or sin that needs to be treated for what it is and dealt with, and eliminated from your life??? It's your choice. It's everyone's choice, including mine. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by husbandsside:
<strong>Listen, if you don't want your man to cheat. Perform oral sex often. I guarentee it. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is NOT the BS's fault that the WS cheats. How come the WS couldn't come out and say "LOOK, if you don't give me a blow job, I'm feeling like I might cheat!" And you know why the WS wouldn't say that? Do you hear how stupid that sounds? Seriously, if you were honest about your feelings of rejection in your marriage bedroom, perhaps things could have been different for you, like maybe NO OW/OC?????? Just a thought? You do contradict yourself when you say it starts EMOTIONALLY then you say you guarantee that a blowjob prevents cheating... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by husbandsside:
<strong>Take your responsibility and fix yourselves and the rest will take care of itself.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hey! I thought you said you were not going to be shallow? This is an easy thing for a former WS to say to a BS who might need some recovery time! Sure, I don't believe the BS should be in recovery forever, there IS a time when we say (to ourselves) OKAY, I'm passed the label and I'm just me, but sheesh, man! This statement is spoken like a true WS still in the fog! Sorry, but it IS!<p>I'm glad that you and your wife are able to look at the bright side of your A, just know that everyone is not quite able to do that. I hear the gist of what you are saying, that the victim mentality has to end, but when is for the victim to decide. And yes, I agree that the sooner the better! Life is meant to be enjoyed regardless of our stinky circumstances.