Ok. I'm sorry if I offended you.
What I was poorly trying to say is ow's mostly keep baby because they hope against hope that the baby will bring the man around and she can "share" him with W like in the affair. At least in our situation it was the case.<p>When ow knew I was going for visitation, she raged and wrote letters and called me and/or H to say I wasn't the mother and if H wanted to be there he should be a full time dad stopping everyday after work and so on and so forth.<p>PUUUHHHHHLLLLEEEEZZZEE!!!!!<p>It ended within a few weeks and then she came after cs saying if you won't abide by my wishes you damn well will pay for this kid!<p>That's what happened here. I know ow would run to the nearest abortion clinic if SHE were raped.<p>She also had an abortion in HS and said to H she'd never do it again.<p>H P-L-E-A-D-E-D not to do this to her H, me, our son. Her 3 kids...it would be a mess and create so much pain and anger. Well, she didn't give a hoot about anyone else but what was right for HER.
And her baby....<p>There are so many other ways it could have been handled.<p>Oh well.<p>As for what my H will say? Who knows? He's alluded to telling the kid he did what he could from a horrid situation and pleased the most people {including himself} hurting the least. Oc will have her H to raise him and her c's don't need us around constantly stirring the pot. Just a normal life again without all the drama. We've all been through enough.<p>love
Debi

I realize that you are speaking from your own experience but I didn't keep my child to get OM. I kept my child because I loved him even before I felt him move inside of me. He was conceived in love, we loved eachother in spite of the relationship being wrong. I didn't use pregnancy to force om into anything. Contrary, it woke me up to reality. I will tell you that if OM, with our without his wife, ever tried to get custody, I'd fight them to ends of the earth. Just the same as you would fight if you were to divorce. The ow's reaction of lashing out at you should have been expected. Its sad because the real losers are the children.
What is hard to understand for bs and op is that the ws has had 2 relationships. My affair wasn't a fling. It lasted 6.5 years and we did alot of things together and got to know eachother very well. Not all fluff, just like marriage isn't all roses. So when it comes time to end, ow thinking that HE (not you) should be in child's life is in line with the relationship. At least, that is my thinking based on my experience. Maybe they didn't have an long affair, I don't know, it justs seems that the reaction not only of ow, but you as well are justified, and are in line with your relatinship with this man. That is what makes the triangle so confusing for everyone.
Being a WS, I see now that I should not be whining about my needs, I hurt 2 men, both good guys who didn't deserve any of it. The BS and the OP are victims in my eyes.<p>I know you didn't offend me personally, but I wanted to thank you for being big enough to apologize to lost soul. Children don't ask to be. All they want is to be loved.

Gem,
Apology accepted. i am sure the oc in your situation will grow up just fine having exOW's H raise him or her. I never had that "male influence" but i turned out just fine. Take care.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>The BS and the OP are victims in my eyes. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I almost agree here. I don't think of the OP as a victim (or at least a minor victim). I think that a safe statement might be that there are three very hurt people in any affair (and make that four if both of the afairees are married). <p>But I think that you did not recognize, or at least say, that that the WS is also very hurt by the affair. They have often violated their own principles. In many cases, they have loved their OP and have then, when the truth came out seen that what they have done has nearly destroyed their own spouse.<p>Everyone involved in an affair is hurt. For me, the difference is that the WS and the OP openly invited this pain into their lives. <p>So while I do see that in some aspects my H used his exOW to selfishly meet some of his own needs without a great deal of concern for what was best for her, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for her. (I do have some. In fact I told him, "shame on you. You took seven years of her young life when she should have been dating and marrying a man her age who was able to give her everything that most women want, a husband, a home and children.") <p>The truth of the matter is that she must think so little of herself that she was willing to feed herself from the scraps of food that fell from our table. When life can offer a banquet, she chose to starve and beg at our table. She says she has lost her best friend. God save me from a friend who treats me that way.<p>She knowingly allowed this to pain to happen to her and to continue to happen over 7 years. Worse still is that she kept reinitiating the affair anytime that they managed to get it broken off. She even dated two different men each for a year (and was as far as I know, faithful to them and not with my H during that time). <p>However, as we have tried to build some sort of working relationship, I did tell her that I knew that she must be in a great deal of pain and I was sorry for it. I didn't need to add the part that she brought it on herself. If she hasn't figured that out, she wasn't going to listen just 'cause I told her so. <p>MJ

mj,
We are all victims in theses messes without doubt. We all have different roles in the A but all end up hurt in the end. WS is definetely hurt deeply and we are victims of ourselves in that we most likely do not know what is in store for us. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to get out and the more painful it becomes for us.
WS has to live with the lies and the truth until A comes out, then BS is forced to live with the knowledge and burdened with it all. The OP struggles to accept nature of relationship, struggles internally same as WS in many cases, between needing, and loving WS and knowing it is wrong.
Living with the reality of the A is not an easy thing to do and it causes op and ws alot of pain in and of itself for sure. It invokes alot of insecurities and jealousy that may otherwise not exist. The whole mess my A was in our lives can't be logically explained that is for sure. We were selfish, both of us. When either one of us said it's time to let go because if for no other reason, we were holding the other one back, the OP was too attached to let go and so the cycle of dependence lingered on and we allowed it to because deep down, we were selfishly meeting our own needs.
I feel that the pain that I have endured from it thus far will be enough for me to be deterred from ever getting into one again no matter what is wrong with me or my M. I didn't have any clue 7 years ago that it would hurt this much or wreck this much havoc. I know I brought it on myself but I truly didn't see it that way at the time. I do now but then we were far too caught up in the moment. Live and learn the hard way for some of us....

CM we only TRIED visitation, not custody! Ow wouldn't hear of me being near their baby. Too bad for all huh?
Your baby was conceived in love? Maybe. It's a damn shame you didn't leave your H to do that with om.
So 6 years and now you know it was a mistake? Why?
Did the baby "end things"?<p>This baby was conceived with deceit and lies.[ow]<p>Ow wanted my life, gambled and now, a lot of people have lost.<p>Hey, cheating is wrong in every aspect of life. Most profoundly in a marriage.<p>I can't change it.<p>I only know my H says he could never imagine ow next to him when we watch tv or relax. He said she was too high maintenance and he was simply exhausted by her and was miserable the last 6 mos of their short affair.<p>He thanks God he married the kind of woman he did.
As I've said here before....I'd never dream of doing that to my H in a million years. It's not in my makeup.<p>Also CM I am sorry you are hurting and hope you find a way to come forth with the truth. Each day you waste is an incredible loss to your whole family.<p>
1 Lost Soul,
I am glad you are doing fine and I am so very sorry if I hurt you in any way.<p>Debi