I want to tell you about a letter Ow's H wrote me last summer that I did not share because at the time I felt ow may be reading my posts and well you know....<p>The letter wasn't sent here but to someone who forwarded it to me in person.<p>Some of the pain he was feeling was at how his own c's "warmed up" so quickly to new baby. That he couldn't stand to watch HIS kids do that. He was trying to be as nice as possible in front of his c's. His Mom and siblings were nice to oc because they feared ow not letting them see grandchildren/neices/nephew. He didn't divorce ow for fear of huge cs for 3 kids from marriage. She wasn't pushing but they were married in name only. {I think she didn't get D because she may have wanted us to think SHE was doing fine}.<p>He let me know that if he had suspected anything he'd have shared it with me.
He let me know how he felt about W /my H...lowlifes.<p>The only thing keeping him from beating the crap out of them both were his kids.<p>I never acknowledged the letter for fear of more anger all around. Besides it was mailed from Fla. w/no return address.<p>At first I wanted to mail it to ow...then decided not to.<p>It took a while to show H and he was angry for days. At ow, at her H, at me as if I had control of what her H did.<p>It was actually anger at realizing what devastation his and her selfish behavior caused.<p>How HER H's Family suffered too, and greatly.
Just like my H's family. Just like my family. Just like our own family...H,Myself, our son, and at the time his GF.{now wife}.<p>So see? You aren't the only man to harbor ill will at the sight of your wife holding OM's baby.<p>He let me know it was the most horrific thing to have been done to him by someone he loved. That the love they had was forever gone.<p>I wonder now? He's home from time to time for D's communion, son's May b/day. Then gone. I see him driving w/ow and my sister sees them at church and school for a few May functions. <p>Well just thought I'd share.
See we were all "going out to dinner friends" before d-day.<p>Ugh, huh?<p>Still say I'm glad I don't have their burden to bear.
It must be awful to see what you've caused once your head's on straight.<p>Perhaps he felt and feels as you do.<p>Best wishes for a new begining and peace,
Debi

gemini,,,, thank you for sharing that with me. many of the same feelings shared with you in your letter i have felt here in my heart. i knew the way fh handled our kids before she delivered grace that adoption was never considered on her part. she aloud the kids to lay their heads on her tummy and spoke to them of their sister to come. her words of looking into adoption were no more then manipulative to apease (sp?) me as she procrastinated taking any action. seeing my kids instantly love grace was very heart breaking for me. they did the right thing for them as she is their sister. but it still hurt me. i thought many times why can't i learn from my children. the answer was that i did as i soon came to realize how beautiful grace is. my real disappointment was in fh. <p>my family has been very effected by all this also. fh is very uneasy now when we are around them. she says she feels like no one wants to talk to her. the reality is they are upset with her and don't know where to start. don't get me wrong they are still very civil and polite. <p>i know people don't understand where i am at and feel that my views and opinions are very hard. i do know i have alot of work to do in regards to "forgiveness". i do however feel that it is fh's responsibility to climb back into my boat and help bail to keep it from sinking. <p>i know this comes off as a hard line but if you knew me before this you would have known a person who let everyday troubles roll off like water on a ducks back. hell my employees even called me "the big easy" because i was able to stay calm when generals were blaming us for other contractors mistakes. i am regaining that part of me in almost all areas of my life. i have been changed forever now as i am very much more direct and blunt with things i don't agree with. i try not to be rude just direct.<p>thanks again for sharing and i know that people do get through these things and that i am surely not the first to experience this.<p>i always like talking with you
pops

Pops, I'm a "big easy" type too. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Maybe you've told me something I didn't realize.
I now am a little more impatient, not much more, but I say what I want now.
There's no more holding back to please others and hurt myself....I just say it!<p>You're welcome on the sharing. I know it helped you to know you're not alone.<p>Above all else, I hope you two get it together for yours and your kids sake.
FH needs to enter a poja with your wishes being accepted now. She must show you where her emotional attatchment is. With you.
She must be willing to show you just how much she appreciates you, and allow you recovery time. You both are hurting and you need to turn to each other honestly once and for all.<p>I pray for your happiness. Both of you.<p>love
Debi

Gem<p>How kind of you to reach out to pops like you have. You are wonderful, Gem.<p>Pops (Big Easy...I really like that)<p>I don't think your views or opinions are any harder than anyone of ours here on this site. We ALL have changed a lot because of these situations that have been forced upon us.<p>The key now is to be good to yourself...give yourself a break. My mantra has always been, "Never apologize, never explain" and as far as any negativity or pissy attitude I may have indulged in over the past four years, it is temporary and I am entitled to pout as long as I don't make it a permanent part of my persona.<p>The anger phase is really a very healthy phase. I spent several months, perhaps even a year, raging around, letting it be known I was plenty unhappy about how my life had changed forever and I had little control over the outcome. I, like you, spent a great deal of time creating boundaries and mandating changes just so I could have some power. Expressing my anger occasionally was cathartic and I feel as though I have purged most of it.<p>It's been almost four years for me and I still find myself raging occasionally when the weekly paycheck detail is sitting on the kitchen counter and I look down and see the weekly detail say "Garnishment-Child Support $300.00". I look at it and say outloud, "You rotten phuqing bytch, may you rot in hades." Hahaha, how's that for snarky? Poor Bipolar just stands there, hanging his head, looking as if he were a beaten pup that just soiled the floor. He says, "Cat, I am so, so sorry...I give anything if I could go back and change everything. If this is the hardest thing you've ever gone through, just be glad you aren't me...how would you like to be me and have to live with yourself knowing what you've done?"<p>He's pretty tortured and I know your wife is too. She probably thinks family and friends that know the situation see her as a slut or has no integrity or is weak. And she can feel their lack of respect and feel their disdain. I think it is harder for FH because since she is a woman who kept the OC, there is always the constant visible proof of her fall from grace. Just for a moment, try to feel what she must be feeling. It must almost immobilize her with pain. If she is not giving as much as she should yet, she may be afraid that it won't do any good, that you will leave her anyway. Bipolar felt this way in the beginning. He thought the damage was so severe, there was no hope for us, so why bother to try? It wasn't until he was absolutely sure that I was in here for the long haul that he began making an effort.<p>I know this is all backwards...it is the Wayward who should be making the big declarations, making the most effort and walking on ground glass for us after what they have done and put us through, but it seems that they just can't in the beginning. They look at the ruins of what once was and the damage is so extensive, it overwhelms them and they feel hopeless.<p>Things seemed to change for us when one emotional morning, I reached across the table and took Bipolar's face in my hands and looked deep into his eyes and said, "I forgive you." He started to cry. It was so sad, so poignant. And even though I didn't really feel complete forgiveness when I said that, that exercise of acting "as if" (doing it til you feel it and make it true) really did begin the healing process for both of us. I have forgiven him a little more every day, month and year. It is just another process.<p>pops, I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers today and will pray for your peace of mind, for relief from your torture and empathy for FH. You are a great guy and I have so much respect and admiration for you.

Pops,<p>For whatever it is worth, I don't think you are being too hard. Personally, I don't think FH has faced her deceit yet. Your story about the children and her getting them to bond to the baby is a case in point. She had already decided that adoption wasn't on the table and hadn't told you.<p>I also don't think FH has realized that age has something to do with all of this. I realize and have had friends and acquaintances that have had to raise grandchildren for a variety of reasons. The hardest part was the fact that their plans for their future, their retirement were completely blown out of the water.<p>In ways it affect the men far more than the women. Why? The women had been worrying about losing their "job" and now they had it back. The men were ready to retire from their job, and couldn't. Travel was gone, time together was gone, the ability to resume romance was gone.<p>Now, when you think about it not all was gone, but when one has children in school, you don't get to do many things, you don't get to sell the big house and move into something that allows you to do other things.<p>Even the discussion of CS, I see as different for you. As we have mentioned in earlier talks. I will be 60 when my youngest graduates from HS. If memory serves me correctly you will be 67. That will put a tremendous financial strain on you, as you probably will have retired. More importantly FH's comment that every one is in good health isn't factoring in that 18 years anytime between 20 and 60 can be planned with minimal worries about health. Above 60 the game starts to change.<p>What am I saying? Your need for CS is different from many, it is or can be sort of an insurance policy. It will as many have suggested very likely bring many headaches, and for most should probably be avoided, but your case is different. Plus, you have many other children to support, get through school and I get the sense that you and Bill Gates aren't in the same tax bracket. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] (We can only dream right? )<p>Pops, I guess if it were me that I would talk to her long and hard about the practicalities of all of this. Of your fears for the future, and of the many things that bother you. Sounds strange, that I am not suggesting you talk about your feelings or how hurt you are, or how she is going to make it up to you.<p>I guess my feeling is if the realities of life cannot be addressed, if plans cannot be made for a future that you would like, if somehow Grace's presence cannot be made into something more than a millstone around your neck, then the rest is irrelevant. FH is going to have to be more than just a passenger in this, she is going to have to take a very proactive role in designing this future and making it happen.<p>I think then and only then can you address the pain you feel, the loss you feel, and the complete sense of powerlessness that you feel. I think you are stuck in the powerlessness of it, because you cannot see a good choice among the ones laid out before you. Hence my suggestion to design a new future. One where you two know where you want to go on vacation, have plans to travel, and have figured out how to do it with Grace somehow cared for.<p>Otherwise, you might as well leave and see if some other lady in this world would like to share the adventures left in your life with you. It is a matter of sharing. FH has shared with you great pain and sorrow, but can she help you share enjoyment and fulfillment?? <p>You will have to decide these things Pops. Focus on what you want and wanted the future to be like. Then see if there is a way to get there. If there is then go for it. Hopefully, FH will be the one that can help you find enjoyment in the future. <p>Does this make sense? I hope so.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Why thankyou, Catnip [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I just couldn't stand seeing Pops having so much anguish for so long of a time.<p>As for you, JustLearning, Well said advice. Very true! Especially:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think you are stuck in the powerlessness of it, because you cannot see a good choice among the ones laid out before you. Hence my suggestion to design a new future.<hr></blockquote><p>It is how a lot of bs feel when ws takes over as train conductor of the situation with no real choices available for bs. Brava!<p>Listening, Pops?<p>love
Debi

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Just Learning:
<strong>If memory serves me correctly you will be 67. That will put a tremendous financial strain on you, as you probably will have retired. More importantly FH's comment that every one is in good health isn't factoring in that 18 years anytime between 20 and 60 can be planned with minimal worries about health. Above 60 the game starts to change.<p>What am I saying? Your need for CS is different from many, it is or can be sort of an insurance policy. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have never thought about that aspect of this situation. Thank you, JL, for the enlightenment. Certainly changed my perspective.