I had decided not to post for a while, to just sit back and read in the hopes that the events of this past weekend would have changed the attitude of some people on here. It only took a few days to see that was not going to happen. I can't really say that I am surprised.<p>There is a serious problem on this BB that really needs to be addressed by the moderators. I beleive that was the intent of the notice posted at the top of the P/C forum page but it has gone unnoticed by some. Plain and simple. The BSs and "old timers" do not have any greater rights or privelages than anyone else posting here. This is a MB forum after all and not a BS forum. The OPs and WSs are not merely "guests" who are given the privelage by the BSs to post here as long as they abide by the rules set forth by the BSs. This attitude runs rampant in all the forums.<p>Granted, there is the occasional "intruder" who posts just to cause trouble, but what do some of you do? You engage in heated debate with them only adding fuel to the fire them stomp off cursing the "OP trouble makers". Has no one here ever heard " ignore them and they'll go away"? It is very apparent that some of you direct your disdain of these people towards all the innocent OPs and WSs that post here.<p>This BB has turned into nothing more than a clique for BSs (not what it was intended to be I'm sure). I may continue to read from time to time but until I see major changes I will not post any advice nor will I ask for any. Some of you really need to ask yourselves whether you are here for MBing reasons or if you just want a place where you can vent and take your anger out on innocent people.

WIB,<p>Who better to change the tone than you?? You are right about many things but leaving won't help the situation will it?? Your advice and comments are needed. You can offer the even handed advice you feel is missing here. That is what it takes you know,participation.<p>So come on out and talk.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>
PS: How are you doing this days? I am sure you are still down abit if not more.

WIB,<p>I wanted to tell you that I respect your opinions and I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said. You made your point very well. <p>I have to say that it takes alot of weeding here to find the few BS's that are real Gems. They are in the minority, sadly. And of course, the Gems who have been on the other side of the fence, like you. I really value you.<p>CM

want it back<p>I don't think a member of this forum that has been posting on here since February of 2002 can possibly have enough knowledge to know if this forum needs to be overhauled or not. The amount of pain and hard work that are behind the years of this forum and its remarkable amount of successful recovered marriages speak for itself. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>There is a serious problem on this BB that really needs to be addressed by the moderators. I believe that was the intent of the notice posted at the top of the P/C forum page but it has gone unnoticed by some. Plain and simple. The BSs and "old timers" do not have any greater rights or privelages than anyone else posting here. This is a MB forum after all and not a BS forum. The OPs and WSs are not merely "guests" who are given the privelage by the BSs to post here as long as they abide by the rules set forth by the BSs. This attitude runs rampant in all the forums. <hr></blockquote><p>No one does have greater rights or privileges than any other member. I don't believe any one has ever said they did?<p>Below is the intent of this forum, as stated by Tempest the administrator.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>As for the intent of this forum - remember that ALL of these forums are operated by Marriage Builders, and their main purpose is to provide support for those who are building or rebuilding their marriages. If you are building or rebuilding your marriage or if you want to provide support to others in building or rebuilding their marriages, then you are welcome here. <hr></blockquote><p>It clearly states that it's for people who are trying to build or rebuild their marriages. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Granted, there is the occasional "intruder" who posts just to cause trouble, but what do some of you do? You engage in heated debate with them only adding fuel to the fire them stomp off cursing the "OP trouble makers". Has no one here ever heard " ignore them and they'll go away"? It is very apparent that some of you direct your disdain of these people towards all the innocent OPs and WSs that post here. <hr></blockquote><p>Okay, I may be off here but how do innocent and OP or WS go any where hand in hand? The very nature of those rolls implies anything but innocence. <p>As far as disdain towards OPs and WSs, I have never showed someone who is trying to repair or build a marriage disdain. As a matter of fact many of my very close friends from this very forum have been OPs and WSs.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>This BB has turned into nothing more than a clique for BSs (not what it was intended to be I'm sure). <hr></blockquote><p>According to Webster's dictionary and I guote:<p>Main Entry: clique
Pronunciation: 'klEk, 'klik
Function: noun
Etymology: French
Date: 1711
: a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes
- cliqu•ey also cliquy /'klE-kE, 'kli-/ adjective
- cliqu•ish /'kli-kish/ adjective
- cliqu•ish•ly adverb
- cliqu•ish•ness noun<p>So yes, compared to the vastness of the world we are an exclusive circle or group of persons. We certainly are held together by one common interest, that being the carnage of infidelity. Our purpose here is to build and rebuild marriages. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I may continue to read from time to time but until I see major changes I will not post any advice nor will I ask for any. Some of you really need to ask yourselves whether you are here for MBing reasons or if you just want a place where you can vent and take your anger out on innocent people. <hr></blockquote><p>Sometimes one needs to look in a mirror to see what they believe they see in other people. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Please do knock it off and let us all get down to being a supportive group of loving people who are struggling to get through the immense effort of building and recoverying our marriages. <p>I'm sorry if I have come on too strong, but you really only have viewed the tip of the iceberg here. The history and success behind this forum is something you will only be able to understand with time. I hope you stick around to enjoy it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: a blessed Samantha ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> No one does have greater rights or privileges than any other member. I don't believe any one has ever said they did? <hr></blockquote><p>
Geez, I don't know? What do you think?<p>BTDT said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>As long as we remain sensitive, I don't see any problem in sticking around on this forum which was created especially for betrayed spouses whose WS's affair(s) resulted in OC's to have a safe place to vent about their pain and frustration... <hr></blockquote><p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</p>

Want it back<p>I'm not sure what the subject was that BTDT was commenting on? Where the quote came from? <p>I do think, but I don't know for sure, that this section of the forum was requested by and originally developed for the BS who's WS's affair resulted in a child. They felt a need for their own little corner of this forum because their situations were so uniquely different than by the grace of God most of us. <p>That being said it was not ever intended to eliminate a WS from being welcome to post here either. Again it get's back to what Tempest posted in her announcement. <p> If you are building or rebuilding your marriage or if you want to provide support to others in building or rebuilding their marriages, then you are welcome here. <p>May I ask you to please explain in what context BTDT's comments were said?

JL,
Well, I guess I've been accused of coming off like "an intruding OW". Funny, I thought I was just defending myself. It's not like I'm advocating affairs or anything. <p> I am the first one to admit that I could never fully understand the pain of a BS. I've never claimed to. But you know what? A lot of them don't know what it is like to be a truly remorsful FWS either. They don't know the shame and guilt we live with everyday, especially living in a small town. That just going to the grocery store or a school function can turn into complete humiliation with people staring, whispering and pointing fingers. The attitude here is pretty much "you asked for it". Even though I also suffer from what I have done I know far better than to ever look for sympathy from anyone.<p> I can honestly say that I had never done anything I was truly ashamed of for the first 35 years of my life. I was not a troubled teen. I got good grades, didn't drink or do drugs. I was a good friend, never turning someone away who needed help even if it was inconvenient for me. I was (and still am) an excellent mother. And up until the A I was a very good wife. Then I made a mistake. A mistake that has wiped out everything that ever meant anything in the previous 35 yrs. I am forever branded. I will always be known as a FWS. (A title that incites nothing good.) Not a person. No matter how remorseful I am, that will never change. This is what I have learned from this site. You know what they say, if you hear something often enough you will believe it.

ABS, That is WHY Tempest made the post. To clarify that this was not a forum for BSs to vent as some people were stating.<p>You'll find BTDTs post in the thread "email" by Mom of Five.<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong><p>1. This is a MB forum after all and not a BS forum. The OPs and WSs are not merely "guests" who are given the privelage by the BSs to post here as long as they abide by the rules set forth by the BSs. This attitude runs rampant in all the forums.<p>2. Granted, there is the occasional "intruder" who posts just to cause trouble, but what do some of you do? You engage in heated debate with them only adding fuel to the fire them stomp off cursing the "OP trouble makers". Has no one here ever heard " ignore them and they'll go away"? It is very apparent that some of you direct your disdain of these people towards all the innocent OPs and WSs that post here.<p>3. ask yourselves whether you are here for MBing reasons or if you just want a place where you can vent and take your anger out on innocent people.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Dear Want It Back<p>You're a peach and i understand your anxiety about all of this, but maybe I can help clarify.<p>1. This really is a forum for BS and WS. If OPs want to be part of this forum, they are expected to be either repairing or building their own marriage...not making excuses for themselves, going on and on about their MM and how deeply in love they are with each other and worried about his feelings while ignoring their spouse, treating him and his feelings as if he is invisible and a non-issue.
If this territorial attitude runs rampant throughout Marriage Builders, it is be cause it IS their forum!!!! And the purpose of the forum is to restore marriages through Harleys Policies of Joint Agreement, Rules of Honesty, Protection et al...it is NOT about finding advice here how an OW can take away a child from her married lover's betrayed x-wife. Can't you see how this enrages us after all we have endured ourselves? The enormity of the pain and the tragedy of events have caused us to be hypersensitve and protective of the purity of this forum...a forum that has become so corrupt lately by some of the people who come here, I hardly realize it. This has nothing to do with Harley's principles, which remain steadfast...no one can help or control who comes here, but we can and we will voice our dissatisfaction at these people who come here causing triggers to go off in some of our members and chase our other members away because, frankly, they still are in a lot of pain.<p>My empathy is with the BS and remorseful WS and Marriage Building OP who completely embraces the rules of honesty. The rest is ballast.<p>2. But, WIB, the OP's DON'T go away. They stay and whine about not having their 'rights'. Are you suggesting we allow them to mouth off their delusions and describe their hot sex with their MP and say nothing like a bunch of sheep...to just 'take it'? I think not. Our own OW's pushiness in our lives, making all the decisions, calling all the shots, forcing us into bankruptcy and then having the nerve to try to take away children, make excuses for themselves and describe their love and sex with their MM is too, too much, Man. It ain't going to happen. I guess it is tough for some of us, me included, to have a lot of OP's here demanding their "rights" on what we territorial feel is OUR site, when we feel our OP's have taken everything holy from us anyway...and then they come here amking further demands. To expect that Betrayeds and OW's can/could get along is an oxymoron at best...like cats and dogs, oil and water. It can happen and has many, many times, but the difference was the integrity of the OW. Anyone can screw up their lives and do things they are not proud of, me includeed. But the difference is the realizations and the amends that have been made...the mindset...the clear headed thinking.<p>3. We are SUPPOSED to vent here. It is our therapy.<p>Samantha explained it all so well, WIB. I know you're upset by some of the things that have been said here but they need to be said because so many innocent Betrayeds have left because of the many new OW's coming here calling us bitter and insulting us and saying things that caused a lot of problems.<p>Your own struggle coming from the other side, WIB, has been tumultuous and riddled with paradoxes, yet, for the most part, you are succeeding in your recovery and, you get it. I know you know how the principles work and how to implement them and when they are threatened, why we defend the site.<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by a blessed Samantha:
[QB]Want it back<p>I'm not sure what the subject was that BTDT was commenting on? Where the quote came from? <p>this section of the forum was requested by and originally developed for the BS who's WS's affair resulted in a child. They felt a need for their own little corner of this forum because their situations were so uniquely different <p>QB]<hr></blockquote><p>
Samantha<p>You are correct in your assessment of BTDT's statement. I am sure this is what she meant.<p>BTW, thank you so much for your careful and concise explaination, Sam.<p>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,
I believe if any OP comes here to cause trouble then the moderators should be notified and have them kicked off. Samanta is very confused. Please read what she said about me in her latest post on her thread. That I am always DEFENDING the OW who post here. When the he** have I ever defended any OW who came here? See what I mean. Can't win.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>I am forever branded. I will always be known as a FWS. (A title that incites nothing good.) Not a person. No matter how remorseful I am, that will never change. This is what I have learned from this site. You know what they say, if you hear something often enough you will believe it.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Want It Back!!!<p>No, no, no! I do not see you like that in any way shape or form at all! I see you as a FWS or FOW or whatever you want to call it and I KNOW of your remorse and your own pain. Really.<p>When you come here and hear some of us venting our pain about our situation and abvout our OW who is often doing things to rob or harm our families, we call them names sometimes in our frsutration and anger but this is not and does not mean you! Not at all. It is almost as though we are compartmentalizing the OW's we have here and know from their postings to be caring, contrite, honorable women who are remorseful and working diligently to rebuild their marraiges and their lives and offering support and guidance here. There is a HUGE difference between you and other OW's who come here asking for advice how to take away a Betrayed's child, completely insensitive, who has no business being here. A HUGE difference.<p>Please 'get that', WIB...we care about you and feel very differently about you. please don't feel that way. I certainly do not feel that way about you...I really think of you as a positive force here and trust your heart is in the right place. I know the recent stuff going on here has us all feeling like we have to go to two camps, but the truth is that we just want our site back like it was where wwe could discuss our feelings, good, bad and indifferent without fear of reprisal.<p>It might not seem right or fair to you at all but this site was originally for BS dealing with OC situations. It doesn't mean that you can't find healing here because you can.<p>Catnip =^^=

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>ABS, That is WHY Tempest made the post. To clarify that this was not a forum for BSs to vent as some people were stating.<p>
[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think you should reread Tempest's post.

Well. Want it back I am going to disagree with you there.<p>Tempest made that announcement to get every to realize the nature of this section of the forum and what it is about. To say that anyone who is building a marriage, rebuilding a marriage or wanting to support to others who are building their marriages. <p>Plain and simple WIB that sometimes includes venting.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I can honestly say that I had never done anything I was truly ashamed of for the first 35 years of my life. I was not a troubled teen. I got good grades, didn't drink or do drugs. I was a good friend, never turning someone away who needed help even if it was inconvenient for me. I was (and still am) an excellent mother. And up until the A I was a very good wife. Then I made a mistake. A mistake that has wiped out everything that ever meant anything in the previous 35 yrs. I am forever branded. I will always be known as a FWS. (A title that incites nothing good.) Not a person. No matter how remorseful I am, that will never change. This is what I have learned from this site. You know what they say, if you hear something often enough you will believe it.
<hr></blockquote><p>Dear lady, you are not forever branded a former wayward spouse. That is a term and initials used here to clearly define our situations and what key place we play in our own scenarios. <p>You are a person, a good person. A person who is so unique and beautiful that God made one and only you. Your mistake only makes you human and your remorse a bit more beautiful and wiser. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't think people are minimizing or saying you don't hurt and suffer. I do believe just as I believe of my own WH and his OW that they had their eyes wide opened while I was blind sided. <p>Nothing in the world whipes out 35 years of good. You are not branded forever either. Time heals all wounds and yours will heal too.<p>Besides do you think all I am is a BS? I promise you I'm not. That doesn't define me, it's just a part of my past and a part of who I have become. It does sufficently explain my situation here though on the site, my experiences.<p>So please know venting is a big part of this site. It is the only safe place where a person WS or BS can be anonymous and spew as much venom as they need to avoid venting at their loved ones or taking their recovery back any steps. <p>Don't take what everyone says about WS personally. Most of it is not directed to you at all, if any of it is.<p>Hugs,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>Catnip,
I believe if any OP comes here to cause trouble then the moderators should be notified and have them kicked off. Samanta is very confused. Please read what she said about me in her latest post on her thread. That I am always DEFENDING the OW who post here. When the he** have I ever defended any OW who came here? See what I mean. Can't win.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>The Moderators are notified, if they don't see it for themselves, but they don't kick anyone off unless it is apparant it is someone who truly is filled wiht ill will. They will lock threads as an indication that things better get better in a hurry but it has to be a really huge violation to get kicked off.<p>As far as Sam saying you are always defending the OW's, I haven't seen her thread yet. Sam might not know you as well as some of the others here but, trust me, she has been around longer than I have and has incredible compassion, fairness and love...let's just see where this goes before we all get upset.<p>Catnip =^^=

I have certainly never said that BSs should not be allowed to vent. I just don't see that as the main reason for the creation of this forum. I also feel that FWSs and FOPs have the same right to vent also. I have also never said that any OP coming here without the full intent of working on thier marriage should be here either.(And again, I have certainly NEVER defended anyone who was not here to do that). In all honesty what happened to MoF made me very wary of this place. Sometimes there is such a fine line between venting and attacking that it just isn't right. A very fine woman was hurt terribly and I for one don't think I could have been as gracious about it as she was. Do I want to set myself up for something like that? I almost don't think that I could ever not be afraid to post my honest opinions anymore. Take Samantha for example. I have absolutly nothing against this woman, I don't think I've ever even posted to her before, yet she seems to think that I have a habit of defending OW that come here. Talk about a good scenario for a trashing. It's a good thing for me that she apparently has a lot of patience. Someone else could have gone up one side of me and down the other for something I've never even done. I guess I just don't feel safe here anymore.

WIB,<p>Do you remember when you first came here? Do you recall my post to you? Your really responded strongly and I suspect you interpretted what I was saying as "attacking" or "blaming" you. What I wanted to do was "warn" you of possible pitfals. The idea then and now was to offer help in your quest to rebuild your marriage and life. It was really that simple and it still is.<p>Allow me to address a few thing you said.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Well, I guess I've been accused of coming off like "an intruding OW". Funny, I thought I was just defending myself.<hr></blockquote><p>Of all the things you need to understand it is that YOU DON'T NEED TO DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST ME OR ANYONE ELSE HERE. The only people you are answerable to are your children, your H, and your God. No one can attack you here, why? Because you are free to summarily dismiss anything anyone says as being just plain useless or the wordings of an ignorant hurtful person. You have that option. <p>When I post to you or anyone else, I am serious about what I say, but I don't expect anyone to take me seriously if they don't want to. I believe most people here look at it that way. Catnip talkes about her OW, vents about her OW, talks more about OW, and her H. Why? Not to attack anyone, not even her OW. It is to verbalize and handle the stresses she is dealing with interenally.<p>She could often use a good pat on the head and a gently said: "Catnip, we are not all like that remember?" And she will get her feet back. If you need help with something or an issue with your H, you are likely to get the strongest support from her.<p>You must understand the only time things are about you is when they are about you. Which means you have asked for advice. If you jump in and start defending yourself when in fact it isn't about you, then you will get unreasonable responses. Makes sense? It should, the readers don't know where you are coming from. IF you are asking questions then often you preface the questions with background so that the readers KNOW what it is you are after.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's not like I'm advocating affairs or anything. I am the first one to admit that I could never fully understand the pain of a BS. I've never claimed to. But you know what? A lot of them don't know what it is like to be a truly remorsful FWS either. They don't know the shame and guilt we live with everyday, especially living in a small town. That just going to the grocery store or a school function can turn into complete humiliation with people staring, whispering and pointing fingers. <hr></blockquote><p>You are right I don't know, but here is what I do know. You are far more sensitive about this than the people you think are focusing on you. What you also need to understand is that you are a FORMER WS, but most importantly your H deals with it and he loves you. If I recall correctly he sort of has an "up their's" attitude. <p>WIB, you try to sound tough and hard, but it is clear the one hurt most in all of this is you. Most people here sense this and even offer advice and yes "warning". [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The attitude here is pretty much "you asked for it". Even though I also suffer from what I have done I know far better than to ever look for sympathy from anyone.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong answer WIB. IF you are suffering come talk you will get advice, hopefully comfort, and yeah even sympathy. You have been so busy defending yourself that you haven't realized that many here would much rather help you than attack you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I can honestly say that I had never done anything I was truly ashamed of for the first 35 years of my life. I was not a troubled teen. I got good grades, didn't drink or do drugs. I was a good friend, never turning someone away who needed help even if it was inconvenient for me. I was (and still am) an excellent mother. And up until the A I was a very good wife. Then I made a mistake. A mistake that has wiped out everything that ever meant anything in the previous 35 yrs. I am forever branded. I will always be known as a FWS. (A title that incites nothing good.)<hr></blockquote><p>Well, you are the sum of your actions and your actions have produced many things including a child by OM. I really cannot speak for your town, or your family. So you may be right, but you know I doubt it. My W has family in a small town, some of which have caused a scandal or two as you have. Now, years later it is not forgotten, but it is accepted. One lady just passed away and the whole town turned out. Not to gloat but because in her 70+ years she had done so much more good than the bad of her scandal. <p>It seems to me the reality is that you will always have your child by OM. That won't go away, but if you make a success of your marriage, and ALL of your children grow up happy, marry, have children, and are productive you are going to be remembered by one and all as a very fine person.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Not a person. No matter how remorseful I am, that will never change. This is what I have learned from this site. You know what they say, if you hear something often enough you will believe it. <hr></blockquote><p>I will tell you this. I have met personally a few of the members here. One, is a FWS as you say. When she, her H, and I get together we talk about all sorts of stuff, but not her A. Why? It doesn't need to be talked about there are too many other neat things happening in their life for that. Her H is a really really nice guy, and she is just a sweetheart. The irony of this is, that I often don't remember that I met her on this site. They are such fun people to talk with. WIB, life moves on, quit defending, and make your life what you want it to be.<p>
As for MoMof5, I wish she would come back. I really liked her advice. I didn't read that thread because I really don't have any need for the negativity that can go on sometimes. I really don't feel that there is a need for somethings, although people do get heated and I have as well.<p>If you talk with her, have her come back if not to post on P/C at least to many of the people on the other sites. She seems like a very nice lady.<p>WIB, I hope if you get nothing else out of this longwinded response, it would be that you should quit defending yourself. It isn't necessary. Your here like the rest of us to learn about making a better marriage and that is THE requirement for anyone.<p>Please lighten up on yourself as well.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
<strong>
1. I have certainly never said that BSs should not be allowed to vent. I just don't see that as the main reason for the creation of this forum.<p>2. I also feel that FWSs and FOPs have the same right to vent also. <p>3. In all honesty what happened to MoF made me very wary of this place. Sometimes there is such a fine line between venting and attacking that it just isn't right. A very fine woman was hurt terribly and I for one don't think I could have been as gracious about it as she was. <p>4. Do I want to set myself up for something like that? I almost don't think that I could ever not be afraid to post my honest opinions anymore.<p>5. Take Samantha for example. I have absolutly nothing against this woman, I don't think I've ever even posted to her before, yet she seems to think that I have a habit of defending OW that come here. <p>5. Talk about a good scenario for a trashing. It's a good thing for me that she apparently has a lot of patience. Someone else could have gone up one side of me and down the other for something I've never even done. I guess I just don't feel safe here anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>1. VENTING is NOT the main reason for this site...in fact, it isn't often we see raging vents. They DO happen, and they should! But, unless we are doing this debate thing we've been big on since a lot of FOW's came here, the arguments and vents are gonna come...like it or not. By and large, we spend MOST of our time offering and receiving support and I hope, commraderie.<p>2. Well, maybe...as long as they do not provoke triggers in the BS...because the BS has absorbed an extraordinary amount of pain that one cannot imagine unless they have experienced this as well...and I am sorry, but I will never, ever agree that the FOW is in as much horrific pain as a BS. Not even close. I do not consider the pain of letting go of their MP nearly or even close to the excruciating pain of finding out their beloved spouse has fathered a child by someone else. NOTHING on earth can compare to that trauma...and that's my story, and I am sticking to it. So, if FOW want to vent, as long as they are very careful about what they say, since we are expected to be very careful about what we say.....then vent away...and don't say anything that will cause us to hack up our husbands in their sleep.<p>3. Me too!!! This place has changed so much, it's scary. But since we are fairly anonymous, we can take it, Cookie...no need to be extraoridinarily sensitive, defensive or wary...we don't have your address...hahaha<p>As for Mom of Five, yeah, it was a nasty situation but it is over and there is no need to do anymore about it except learn from it and understand and comfort Mom of Five, if she even needs it. No need to make a bigger deal over it than necessary.,..I mean, after all, we have all been ambushed, attacked and hung out to dry at one time or another. We all need to get over it, for crying out loud.<p>4. don't be a baby!!! Remember your anonymity!<p>5. Samantha is wonderful, WIB...she didn't trash you by making an obsevation that may have been inaccurate...if 95% of her observation was accurate, why do you focus on that 5% that wasn't and take it so hard, bordering on obsessing? Let it go, WIB...you made your point. I know you do NOT defend OW's as do the regulars here, so relax. It's OK.<p>6. It's OK....<p>Love<p>Catnip =^^=

I feel the need to make a couple of things clear.<p>It's very important that everyone who posts on this or any other MB forum remembers what this site is about. It is about Marriage Building. And it's also important that all are aware that the moderators and myself are all volunteers. We are not employed by Marriage Builders - we give our time out of the desire to help keep this site running. And we are doing exactly what Steve Harley wants us to do here. Actions we take are always taken with that in mind. <p>Because this is a Marriage Builders site, we are always going to be less tolerant of those people who are clearly not building anyone's marriage. And, we are always going to be little more tolerant of those people who have demonstrated that they are working on building their own marriages, or those who support those building their own marriages. This is, as has been pointed out a number of times of late, not a public forum, but a private one, and as such, is subject to the whims of the owner if he should so choose it to be.<p>I have seen a lot of criticism posted over the last few days about the way the forums are handled. It is distressing to me to read these types of posts, as I know how hard we all work at keeping this place (the forums in general) a valuable resource to those who want to make their marriages better and safer.<p>Although I don't feel that the moderators of any of the MB forums should have to make general announcements regarding the actions they may take, we will answer your questions via email as long as it does not violate anyone else's privacy. Rather than speculate about why an action was taken, go to the forum home page, click on my name and email me. <p>For the time being, I will explain this: When a thread gets to the point of being as volatile as some of those we saw a few days ago, we will lock it - with or without warning. If the post contains personal attacks, we will move it to a storage area on the forum rather than simply deleting it, so that there is a record of what was said by everyone involved. That also prevents any (further) editing on the part of anyone involved. If we deem it necessary, we will attempt to contact those involved via private email - particularly in cases where members have long and supportive histories at MB. We don't like to ban anyone, and only do so as a complete last resort. There is another reason why we move the threads as well - locking them may prevent editing or adding new posts, however, they are still there, glaring out at everyone and rubbing salt in the wounds until they drop down off of the front page.<p>We are working hard and, to be honest, working with one hand tied behind our backs. I think we are due some tolerance and patience - and assistance from all in the form of positive and constructive marriage building discussion.<p>Let me leave you with some basic statistics about the forums: We have 21164 registered members spread out over 63 forums. It is only June 6, 2002, and already there have been 245,588 page views of the forum pages. In the lifetime of the forum, not counting posts that were lost in the great void when we had major problems a while back, and not counting posts that have been completely deleted at user requests, etc., there have been 567,265 posts on the MB forums.<p>This is a busy place. Let's all take some deep breaths and get down to the business that we should all be here for: Marriage Building.<p>Thank you.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by want it back:
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No one does have greater rights or privileges than any other member. I don't believe any one has ever said they did? <p>Geez, I don't know? What do you think?<p>BTDT said:
quote:
As long as we remain sensitive, I don't see any problem in sticking around on this forum which was created especially for betrayed spouses whose WS's affair(s) resulted in OC's to have a safe place to vent about their pain and frustration...
[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: want it back ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Listen WIB,
Who did you think I was referring to when I said "WE"???????? I was referring to former OW...<p>If you take a little time to research people's posts and stories, you will find that I was an OW who got pregnant by a MM. I'm not a BS, okay? Nor am I part of the BS clique that you constantly refer to.<p>Maybe while you are lurking, go research posts, search member names, read and learn about the people behind the screen names who post here. That will take a little time and effort on your part. Are you willing to do that???<p>People don't care what you have to say until they know you care. This place is no different.<p>That is actually the WHY behind my statement--to encourage sensitivity, not separation. You keep making it about separation. The way I see it, we are all on the same team here--Marriage Building.<p>[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>