I have read some info on plan A ...and i have some problems....am i reading right that we are suppose to feel partly responsible for the H having the affair...b/c we didnt fullfill some need? Im having a real hard time with that one. and as far as plan a...i must not be looking in right place with exception of the ?'s i havent really found anything else on the plan. Also whats with giving the cheater all the support and being strong with them (not pushing them) what about me and how im feeling? Why do i feel i have to walk on eggshells for h when he's the one that screwed up? Shouldnt that be the other way around? Isnt the fact that i didnt kick him out the door something h should be grateful for and going out of his way to make me happy? why is it we have to do all the scaraficing? I dont understand this at all and it really gets me and makes me even madder...so someone please help me understand this please.

Dear Hurt,
I am right with you. I have read a couple of things there also. I don't give my H credit for anything or feel sorry for anything he did. I will not blame my self for his A and you shouldn't either. I blame my H 100% for all of my hurt and bitterness he has put in our marriage. He also takes 100% of blame. I blame some on OW but not a lot. He shouldn't have put himself in that situation. I do blame her for the little games she is playing when it comes to ??? OC. My H had everything in a wife and admits that. He doesn't know why he had the A only to tell me is was stupid (dud I tell him ). I give him no credit and no respect for anything. Granted my D-Day was 3/25 and it will take me awhile to come to gripps with this if I do. Hang in their is I am doing. Several people have told me here not to do anything while I am hurting so badly. Listen and read as much as you can, but listen to your heart the most. My H and I are in cousiling and pray together all the time. It is helping a little. God Bless

hurt n lost:<p>Plan A is most conveniently described in Harley's book "Surviving an Affair". It is a first step in behavioral plan for the betrayed spouse to attempt to save their marriage, normally applied during an active (ongoing) affair. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>am i reading right that we are suppose to feel partly responsible for the H having the affair...b/c we didnt fullfill some need? <hr></blockquote><p>What you're reading is one interpretation. Let me address it from another POV. Your husband had an affair. What was the state of the marriage up to that point of the affair? Most times---affairs happen in troubled marriage. That's not an excuse to have an affair, but it's a fact---one of the ways to affair-proof a marriage is to have a happy marriage with romantic love between husband and wife, in which the general rules of Care (meeting needs), Protection (avoiding lovebusting), Honesty (complete honesty) and Time (lots of time together doing the above with your spouse) are followed. <p>So, as a betrayed spouse---what are your options? (Steve Harley used to always ask me this when I was counseling with him). You can blame your spouse for the affair and the bad decisions and divorce them. In most cases, that doesn't lead to future success for the betrayed spouse. You can blame and punish the wayward spouse for the affair and stay with them---but that's not going to be a terrific way to rebuild love in the marriage. Or you can attempt to take an objective look at the marriage and any shortcomings you brought to it---and address those shortcomings. Usually focusing on eliminating lovebusters as the first phase, and then working on meeting those emotional needs that your wayward spouse will meet.<p>You do this for a few reasons:<p>1. It's an unexpected response. Most (not all) people who are having an affair will not end it upon discovery (hooray for the ones that do). They're expecting a negative, punishing reaction, and many hope for this as a way to justify themselves. Don't give it to them. You don't approve of the affair (in fact, you should strongly disapprove). But you don't use lovebusters (angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements). You can't threaten someone out of an affair.<p>2. You attempt to end the affair through negotiation, using the Policy of Joint Agreement and the rules for safe negotiation. Sometimes this works to end the affair. Most times it doesn't---but you're exhibiting new, thoughtful, responsible behavior (all part of setting up Plan B).<p>3. You benefit from learning new marital skills regardless of what happens to the marriage. Most affairs are over within 2 years of discovery. If you can get through this period with some love intact for your spouse, you may be able to rebuild. If you do so in a thoughtful way that doesn't alienate your spouse---there's a better chance for success. You're simply using Plan A to learn and practice good marital behavior (under very difficult circumstances), and you will benefit should you go to Plan B. Or if you end up divorced.<p>In essence, Plan A (and the following Plan B---a no-contact separation that lasts 6-18 months) is a plan for you to learn and heal from this hurt. It gives you the opportunity to learn good marital skills (if you're truly the perfect spouse already, then you probably don't need much time in Plan A). Plan B gives you time to heal from the hurt, and to slowly prepare yourself for divorce. And the two of them together, done under the guidance of a good counselor (like Steve Harley), also give your marriage the best chance for survival and recovery.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Isnt the fact that i didnt kick him out the door something h should be grateful for and going out of his way to make me happy? <hr></blockquote><p>If your husband is still in the affair (or it's recently over), he's going to still need to go through the withdrawal phase of the affair. That takes some time. And he's only going to be "grateful" to you if you're providing him a safe, loving environment. If you're punishing him---it's not going to work, even if you have "the right". This isn't about being right; it's about rebuilding love, trust, and learning to work together and having both spouse's take responsibility for the marriage, in all aspects.<p>I'd suggest that you call either Steve or Jenn for an appointment (888-639-1639) if you need help with this. An affair is tremendously difficult to get through; it's even tougher when a pregnancy is involved. The two of you can do this---but it's going to take time and patience, and a very good plan.<p>God bless.<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: K ]</p>

Hurt & Lost,<p>I can only give you my spin from what I experienced in my relationship, but here goes:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>we are suppose to feel partly responsible for the H having the affair...b/c we didnt fullfill some need? <hr></blockquote><p>Early in my days and months after d-day I felt the same way you did. Some very very wise BS's talked with me on and off the boards to really get me thinking about what lead to the affair. In my self examination I finally realized that I wasn't responsible for the affair. It was an aweful and terrible choice my husband made. What I was responsible for was for my contribution towards the breakdown of my marriage. I held 50% responsibility in that regards. <p>The way I look at it is, a marriage is a TEAM effort. Both people giving/taking and fulfilling each others needs. Were all my needs being met? No. Were all of his needs being met? No. Although I didn't choose the affair route, I chose to submerge myself in my work. Thus perpetuating the problem even more. My kids were growing up without a mom in their life and my husband was being burdened with ALL the responsibility of rearing them and maintaining the household. <p>I can own up to my part in our breakdown of communication, love, romance, trust, etc. And he eventually (once seeing me take my share of that burden) began to own up to his. And eventually humbling himself to admit out loud to me and God that he mad those aweful choices on his own.<p>No one is saying you have to take the blame for the affair. But you do have to look within yourself and figure out what it was you were or were not doing to contibute to the weak marriage.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Also whats with giving the cheater all the support and being strong with them (not pushing them) what about me and how im feeling? <hr></blockquote><p>Man oh man did I have a hard time with this one too. I would read other BS's post and they'd talk of their husbands bending over backwards to "make it up to them" and I was soooooo envious. Why wouldn't mine do that?<p>Well I figured out a couple of things:<p>1. My husband was beating himself up over what he had done. He was absorbed in self loathing, anger, humiliation, guilt, etc. How can anyone expect another human being to be loving, compasionate, giving, supportive, or otherwise when they are feeling sooooo down in the dumps. Have you ever been truely miserable about something other than OW/OC? Could you at that point and time concentrate on making another human being feel good, when you don't feel good yourself? <p>2. And during that time my husband wouldn't admit to what he was feeling. It wasn't safe for him to do so. Why wasn't it safe? Because ever single time we discussed it I would go into blaming mode and victim mode. How could he even discuss it with me when every time it was discussed it lead into more pain, more hurtful words, more agruements. I tried to put myself in his shoes, and you know what? I wouldn't have avoided discussion like the plague. <p>Plus being in victim mode, allows us to dwell in our sadness and anger. If you are feeling like a victim you can't raise your head and begin TRUE recovery. I got sick and tired of being a victim, and to be frank... being a victim wasn't very attractive to my husband. He has ALWAYS favored strong independent women. And staying victim for too long would have been detrimental to my situation because OW was acting stronger that ever. Sometimes we think being victim punishes our WS when in actuality all it does is keep them in guilt/anger mode. Also not conducive to recovery.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> why is it we have to do all the scaraficing? <hr></blockquote><p>3. A very wise BS who was well into a great recovery and healed marriage told me something that stuck. She said that the BS is unfortunately burdened with doing the initial investment of time/energy/love/effort in healing the marriage. She also said that the WS
expects to be punished by loosing his marriage. And in fact may even believe that they deserve it. Our job is to show them that they are loved and deserving of a second change. Because by staying, that is in fact what we are offering them.<p>To sum it all up. Yes we do have to work harder... in the beginning. But you have to think of it as an investment.<p>My investment paid off. I began to own up to what it was I was doing wrong in the marriage. Two things happened. I changed my ways and started contributing towards a good marriage, and he responded by changing his ways and started his contributions. <p>Then by making it a safe place to discuss feelings, and what happened before and during the affair my H began to open up to me in a way he never had before. I learned so much about him that he never shared. We began talking not just about Ow/Oc and our problems, but other issues of life/love & the persuit of happiness. We became best friends in the true essense of the word.<p>And the absolute BEST result of Plan A was that he began to do all those awesome things other people's WS did to "make it up to them." And he did them because he wanted to make me happy, not out of guilt. I would rather have someone shower me with love and affection because they are overwhelmed with love for me, than because they felt guilty about hurting me. Because honey, the guilt may wear off, but deep love lasts forever.<p>I challenge you to do one thing in the next week. Take a good hard look at what your marriage was like pre-affair and the time leading up to d-day. What could you have done differently to make a better marriage? What do you suspect you husband wasn't getting from you? Be honest with yourself. Noone else will know what you are admiting to yourself. I think you'll find that there was room for improvement. Plan A is about fixing yourself and showing the WS that you can be the partner he wants to be with exclusively for the rest of his life. <p>I've gotten long winded. And I apologize. But the questions you raised are near and dear to my heart. I was so stuck until I made these realization. Thing finally began to finally fall into place when I started putting the hard work into play.<p>Best of luck. Keep posting... keep venting... keep reading.<p>Z.

as far as the state of our marriage before this affair....its 2nd on...first was 4 yrs ago that i know of anyways....he will openly admit i give wholeheartedely to him...his complaint is not being free to do what he wants when he wants w/o question...he doesnt even know what its like to not be able to go somewhere b/c u cant take a little one...b/c ill stay home so he can go. And since ive found out about this affair...i have been very strong...when i do break down hes not home, im alone. I have been very loving and giving to him still and supportive of this coming baby that maybe his. all he can say is he loves me...its not me and i dont know whats wrong. I have no idea where to go from here...i do still love him and believe that he does love me too...but i dont want to go thru this another time either and i dont know how to fix what is wrong when he doesnt know what it is..or wont share it with me anyways. Any suggustions
h n l

for the record...i know im by no means perfect and know i have some faults...but ive been trying to give my h what he says he wants and needs for so long i give up so much of me to do it. even though there may have been some years in between the affairs i believe if he had the chance there wouldnt of been any amount of time between them. Its like he's not happy unless he has the player life going on...but he doesnt want me to leave and swears he learned his lesson this time ( since she might be preg with his baby) I dont know if i believe him about that, funy thing is he's looking thru all my stuff...hoping to find out i cheated too...i never have...been tempted but never have. I want my marriage to work...but i also want my child growing up to respect me as a person, i dont know how to do both. I have to again say thank you all for your prompt and generous replies. The support means alot to me.
h n l

Notable Posts/Threads<p>Notable Posts/Threads has a lot of Plan A info that you may not have read before--check it out...<p>Also, here is a quote from another Q&A article on this site (what are Plan A, Plan B):<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse. <p>So, then, what is plan A and plan B? <p>Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover. <p>On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again. <p>In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness. <p>A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof. <p>In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery.
<hr></blockquote><p>With an OC in the picture, the BS is advised to be the go-between person making contact with the OP for all visits.<p>Pregnant with a Lover's Child #1<p>Pregnant with a Lover's Child #2<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

July will make a year since D-day and I feel like hurt....I have through counseling tried to figure out my part in my H's A and I can't get it. My H hides his A and OC for 3 yrs and at the same time told me EVERY morning how much he loved me. I had no idea that I was not meeting his EN, hell he wasn't and hasn't met my ALL my EN should I go and have an A now. I will say this for Dr. Harvey, I am not leaving at this point of time because I am not emotionally ready. My H told me the other day that I had to eventually let go of the A or him. It took all the strenght I had in my body not to say that I am working on giving up both. Because after a year of trying and I must admit, he has tried, I still can't trust him, respect him - don't think I'll ever will again, Love him - no, only care about him. When I think of leaving, I think of the lost of income not loss of a husband because in my eyes I lost my H the day the A began.<p>Sorry to sound bitter but it's how I feel and I think it does the BS a disservice to make them have to do all the work to repair what they did not brake.

LemonPie,<p>May I be allowed to disagree with you. No disrespect intended.<p>You said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Sorry to sound bitter but it's how I feel and I think it does the BS a disservice to make them have to do all the work to repair what they did not brake.
<hr></blockquote><p>Fact of the matter is ... we do ANY relationship a disservice if we can't recognize that our behaviours greatly influence the path those relationships take.<p>While the affair is NOT the BS's fault. And the choice to have an affair lays squarely on the WS's shoulders. The BS is 50% responsible for the dynamics in their relationship. Unfortunately how individuals respond to their particular dynamics result in affairs, addictions, or neglect, etc.<p>I'm a firm believer in, regardless of what you want.. if you work hard you see results. Whether that be working towards a promotion, a raise, good grades, or/and a better marriage.<p>NO marriage can survive unless BOTH parties come to grips with what it is they are doing to negatively affect the dynamics in their marriage. And if any BS wants a recovered thriving marriage, they will work like hell to get it. And if that means indulging in some painful self examination, then so be it. If it means eating some crow and sticking your neck out first, then so be it.<p>It's an investment in the future. Some will be willing to take the chance and fight for what they want, and others will sit back in a pity party for themselves and wait for someone to hand them the perfect marriage.<p>I assure you, the latter will wake up one day and the life they could have had will have past them by.<p>And a side note.... even if after the BS has done all the self examination and made changes to better themselves, and the marriage still fails .... the bonus is:<p>1. they leave the realtionship with a clear conscious they gave it their all and will never have to second guess if they should have done more.<p>2. they have improved themselves for their next relationship so it may have a fighting chance.<p>Can't beat those odds, it looks like win/win to me.<p>Again, no disrespect intended, but I feel strongly about owning up to our parts in the breakdown of the marriage and how changing ourselves positively contributes to recovery.<p>Z.

Hi Z,<p>I don't think you are being disrespectful at all. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. If you find taking some of the blame for you H's A makes your marriage stronger then I'm glad it works for you. I was responding only because I too have a problem with plan A. At this stage in my recovery, I will not accept the blame for my H's A. He had a choice and he choose, just as if I decided to have an A it would be my decision alone. It would not be because of my H. Again, if it works for you than I am happy for you. No one solution works for everybody. Good luck in your marriage.

I'm new and probably have no right jumping into this thread, but I'm compelled to throw my two cents into this.<p>To Lemonpie--
Since my H's A ended in 4/00 (two years), I've been of the same opinion as you. When I heard about this MB website and checked out this "Plan A" and "Plan B" stuff, I was outraged and indignant. Damnit, my H was the one who did this to us and chose to be with that miserable sl*t. But it's been TWO LONG YEARS since he stopped seeing her, and I'm not getting better. I'm still really, really bitter and no matter what my H has done to help me heal, I still resent the heck out of him for the betrayal and am ready to throw the A in his face the second we get into a disagreement. Not only am I miserable, I've succeeded in making my H miserable also. I recently reached the point where I'd begun seriously contemplating divorce even though we have two sons together, ages 2 years and 9 mos.<p>In a desperate last attempt to keep our family intact (right now for my children's sake, and hopefully for my own happiness's sake soon), I purchased Dr. Harley's book "His Needs, Her Needs" and read it cover to cover, though admittedly with extreme reservation and being ready to throw it in the garbage immediately if it sounded like religious crap supporting the cheater's behavior. <p>But it all made sense to me, and helped me understand why I personally am still so unhappy and lonely, even though I'm pretty secure now that H will do everything in his power to never cheat again and has been bending over backwards trying to make up for hurting our relationship. H is reading that book now, and I just started on the "Lovebusters" book. OUCH! It's really, really, really hard for me to read this one, as I just recently discovered that I am guilty of marital abuse. Me, the perfect victim and martyr... it hurts. <p>Honestly, I don't know how this will turn out. I only know that my two years of self-righteously sitting on my prized BS martyr throne while friends and family throw me pity bones and hail me a "saint" for staying with WS have NOT made me any happier, nor helped to heal the rift between me and my H. I have no choice at this point but to try something radically different, or get the heck out before H and I destroy each other.<p>If you find something else to get rid of this bitterness and unhappiness I'm experiencing (besides illegal substances--that's a temporary fix anyhow), PLEASE share your discovery with me!!

Hi Waterrabbitt,<p>You have every right to butt in. This site is for all to express their opinion. Thank you for yours. Let me try to clear something up. I never said that plan A shouldn't be done or that it shouldn't be at least tried. I was only stating that I had difficulty with it and felt as a BS, plan A was seem to ask BS's to apologize for something they didn't do. I am trying to work things out with my H and I do try to let him know that I understand he made a mistake. However, I also asked him to understand that although I understand he made a mistake it doesn't make it easy for me to cope. I don't throw the A in his face with every argument. As a matter of fact, if there is one thing I learned through all of this, it is I learned to think before I speak. So again, if plan A works for any of the BS on this board I say congratulations to you. Hopefully, I can have success with it also, I just don't at this time. Thank you for your response and I welcome any advice you can give me.

Lemonpie:
Spoken (written actually) like a true diplomat. I sincerely applaud you, and there is not one ounce of sarcasm here. The members on this board are awesome, and I'm so grateful I found my way here.<p>Respectfully,
WaterRabbit