http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2002/002/4.36.html

"How Men Really Think about Sex" (as an indispensable test of identity! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

What do you think??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Whoa Jenny, I loved it. I forwarded it to every woman I have on my email address book! Sorry if I sent to some of you MB'ers that read it off of the link here.

Thanks for sharing.
Z.

very interesting, Jenny. I think this says a lot about why our H's may have gotten involved with OW-I think it is easy for OW to allegedly meet the H's sexual needs when normal life activities and/or stressors are not involved. The A is a secret, fantasy life, building the ego of a man, at its center a sexual relationship. How easy it is to think the H loves the OW for meeting these primal needs.

bumping this up because I think it's very insightful--check it out!

Ewww yuck! I hated the article. (Sorry Jenny, no offense intended.)

This is what I hated about it:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gilder calls women the "sexually superior" gender. By that he means that our bodies mirror more about being female. We can give birth and breast-feed children--glorious acts of power and influence unavailable to men. Our bodies can actually house people.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It has been a very long time since I felt really, really like a piece of trash for my infertility, but this article provoked those feelings in me, as if I had failed in some profound and hideous way. As if my infertility explains his affair

In my mind I know it doesn't--he views the conception and birth of Precious in very ambigious ways. He loves her and is glad that she wasn't aborted, didn't die or wasn't born profoundly retarded as they predicted, but he still wishes she had never happened. (Sorry to those who have given birth to an OC. No offense intended here either, just the honest truth.) As hard as we try, and as much as we learn to love her, we will always have some ambigious feelings about her. She wasn't born to us, she was conceived in one of the greatest human betrayls possible and that will always sting. Just as the fact that we adopted our boys will always have some bit of pain to it. Adoption is the only way we could have gotten these wonderful boys that I have no doubt God meant for us to have, but we had to lose out on the first 7 and 10 years of their lives, they didn't come from my body, and they had to suffer huge losses and abuse to wind up in a situation where they were available for adoption. (Very often when I hold my 7-year-old in my arms he asks me to make him my baby and to breast feed him. He wants so badly to have come from my body that he makes up fantasy games about it. There, how is that for debunking some of the warm fuzzy mythology about adoption? The turth is adoption comes about through great losses on all sides; it can be wonderful and in the long run, be best for everyone concerned, but it is not a Ward and June Clever starting point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

Here is what else really stung: Mr. J became impotent with me about a year before his affair began. He had panic attacks and went on medication. Within a couple of days his ability to have intercourse or achieve orgasm with me was gone. He refused to talk about it, to talk to his doctor or go for counseling. He simply removed himself from the sexual arena (with me). Yet, he was able to begin an affair with her. Must have been the forbidden/naughty factor.

Now he says that it was my weight that caused the impotence--he may have a very valid point, but he still refuses to look at the fact that at least part of the problem was his medication. Apparently it is easier to blame me. Well, at the time I was a size 12 or 14, not enough to make most men fade away, but not truly desireable. After their affair had been going on awhile, he began to have similar problems with her (and she is a size 3) but less frequently.

So, we have a problem created in part by my weight and his panic disorder. His solution? to have a massive affair and father a child? Why am I suddenly furious about his choices in ways that I haven't been in a long time? Because I feel inadequate in yet another way.

As for the loss of our sex life. I simply cannot imagine that he felt it any worse than I do. I felt absolutely rejected and undesireable. Right before the medication we were having sex 3 or 4 times a week and reserving 1 weekend every 3 months for marathons where we would try to break our record of 8 times in 24 hours. Here's my "me good, you bad" part of the speech. Did I choose to have an affair despite having the opportunity? No, I remained faithful, I asked for counseling, I tried to work on the marriage, something he just opted to go around in pursuit of his own ego.

As soon as the affair was over and out in the open, Sherriff Woody returned to our bedroom, but my overatures are still often met with his complaints of "too tired" or him simply staying in front of the television rather than coming to bed--nice passive/aggressive technique. We are still only intimate 1x/month. I told him recently if he didn't start being intimate with me, I was going to go into the nearest large city and start paying for it, with a man or a woman, I didn't care.

Guess I gotta get back on that diet/exercise routine, but to be honest, I have no hope of us ever achieving a happy sex life again, no matter how much weight I lose.

MJ

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>

OH MJ!!!!!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{MJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry this article made you feel worse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I noticed that (birth) part of the article too, but I understood it in that generic way that the female gender does those things, not that every one of us can, (or if we can, that not every pregnancy will be a success!). But I can see how it could be a *trigger* re: infertility <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Another grief.

The article was a real eye-opener for me, in the description of how important an issue sex is for male self-esteem, how it ties into all their other areas of work, emotion, etc. was really well-worded and dovetailed with my H's complains about my not being receptive enough at times. I'd read similarly before, but this article really got my attention, and my DH says it's right on.

MJ, I didn't know you and Mr.J were having trouble and I hope communication (or counseling) can help you both. There are so many good books out there, too, like "Light His (or Her) Fire".... If he found you attractive during your "marathon" days and you didn't look much different then, then his excuse is a red herring. Is he this passive/aggressive (conflict avoider) in other areas too? I hope he's willing to work on it with you asap.

It sounds like you're having a hard time. Hang in there; even the bad times don't last. Hugs to your sweet boys; it sounds like they really love you and I know you will help them through their grief.

Prayers and angel wings,
J
Our family is a circle, and every crisis faced together makes the circle stronger...

Awwwww, Jenny, thanks. Don't take it personally; my issue was with the article not you posting it. Yeah, it really struck at my vulnerable points, but I can still see the good in the article. I didn't think that much could rouse feelings of inadequacy regarding infertility anymore, but that one hit just the right note. I was also concerned about Stacia who is in the middle of infertility treatments. I think that the author made a serious error assuming that fertility was a common theme for all women. In my case, don't forget that I have the added burden of male chromosomes in my female body that make me a little more susceptible to any implication that I have failed as a woman. web page --I helped found the national support group and designed the web pages.

No, I don't look like I did back in the (sex) marathon days. That's what I looked like when Mr. J began his affair. As I spent more and more of my life alone (while he persued more and more money, more and more sports and expensive toys, and don't forget good ole Timberbutt [ex-OW], I developed a worse and worse weight problem. I topped out at a size 24. Since last year I have lost almost 45 pounds and I am back down to size 20 but I still have a lot of work to do on this issue. I've got my gym bag with me at work today! If I could reach and maintain a size 12 again (with some muscle strength) I would be very happy.

No, we don't talk about our sex problems. I feel like I don't have a right to until I get my weight under control.

MJ

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>

Dear MJ,

We were sisters in another life -- so many similarities in our experiences. I struggled with infertility for many years - inability to get pregnant and then multiple miscarriages. My H also went through impotence before the A. But once in the A, started to experience the same thing.

At the time I was about size 20, and although my H never complained about my weight, I am sure he would have preferred a better looking bed partner.

I always felt that the impotence made him feel that he had to prove himself with someone else. But, once the problem started with the exOW, he realized that the problem was him and he had to solve it.

Like Jenny said, please try to get some help and read some techniques. Intimacy is so important in a marriage, especially when you are new parents and building a family. I also saw that part of the article but took it like Jenny in a more generic sense. But, I know how it is to feel so inadequate and incapable of doing what others find so simple.

Big hug to you MJ.
love,
heavenly

MJ,
I don't take it personally.

Listen, a weight problem doesn't exempt you from the right to emotional and physical needs!! You're still a human being and your H's beloved wife!! It is still your "job" as married people to attempt to meet each other's needs, right? IMO you're doing a great job (45 lbs! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) working on his appearance needs despite the pressures of adding 2 children to your home, the medical crisis of your neice, etc. and all the regular stuff! If he isn't making a similar effort towards meeting your needs... he needs a push in the right direction! ;-)

PS the website is wonderful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If I had a child with this condition, it's one of the first places I'd want to go! Bless you.

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>