Ok, maybe I am posting too often, I feel like I'm getting too blabby on the board. On the other hand, I feel like there is no where else I can tell people things that I am understood as completely as I am here....

So, I am pretty sure I LB'd big time last night, but I can't seem to get rid of the resentment. My H told me last night that the XOW came by his work and dropped off a photo album full of pictures of the OC. They also chatted briefly and then she left. My H showed the baby off at work (mind you, I have not even met him yet) and held and played with him. Per H, there was nothing inappropriate, he even removed all the pictures that she included herself in and gave them back to her (the NERVE of this woman including pictures of herself). On the outside, it seems like everything was very appropriate and moving in the right direction for the OC. I'm glad about that, really I am. And, my H came home glowing about the baby and how cute he is and how much he looks like my H. My H seems really happy.

And all I can feel is misery. I remember an abusive man who wouldn't have anything to do with my infant, made excuses like "he's so little, I like them better when they're older". I fed that child, I diapered that child, I got up with that child 95% of nights (with the excuse "I have to work, you know"). I poured my soul into our son and felt joy and glowed the way my H is glowing now, but my H simply ignored us both for the most part (and continued his first big emotional affair, btw). I remember how manipulative and deceitful this OW is, and how badly she wants to erase me from my life. I remember their colluded meetings while my H was working, and I remember his insistance that everything was innocent and she was just a friend. I remember being the bi*** because I KNEW something more was going on, and nagging and nagging and feeling so hurt but also feeling crazy because he denied everything.

I am soooooooo afraid and scared that those days are coming again. After all, she is doing the right thing by reaching out to my H and allowing him to be the father (never mind how delibrate she is about excluding me--and how he is allowing it right now--ostensibly to keep the peace so we look good in court). I am supposed to just sit back and be glad my H is on my side, but all I can feel is rage, pain, fear, jealousy and misery at what I've lost and what might happen in the future. Why couldn't he be this way for our son? Why do I have to see this loving and wonderful man NOW, when it almost feels too late for me to forgive and love him? I'm trying, but it is getting harder as he gets more healthy, because I am grieving what could have been so much.

My LB is that when he was telling me all of this and looked so happy and proud, I had to leave the house. I couldn't take another minute of hearing how beautiful and wonderful this OC is, no matter if it is the OC's fault or not. I didn't want to start raging and say hurtful things, and I didn't want my H to see how bad I was hurting. So I took off, and didn't come back until after school. By then my H was furious with me, and refused to even talk about it, which of course just put us in a shouting match.

This morning, he hasn't called me as usual and I know I should apologize but I feel so much that HE should be the one to reach out.

Forgiveness is divine, but sadly I am only human and still struggling.

SORRY if this was too much--I just don't know what else to do!
EJ

EJ,

I'm sorry for your pain. I wish that I could offer you something more than that right now, but am at a loss. Don't feel as if you are "blabbing" too much, we are here to be your sounding board!

Having been both the BS and WS, I can understand your confusion, pain, anger....and what I see in your paragraph about your H being distant from your S is that you also said that he was in the middle of his first big EA. During that time, a WS is being VERY selfish, and seeing to only their feelings! In his mind(this is just what I think, mind you) you and your S were reminders of what he was harming by continuing/starting the A! So, to make himself feel better, he distanced himself from you and the baby. As for why he is being the way with the OC that he is, I'm not certain. But, at least he is being honest about having removed the pics with xOW in them and giving them back to her.

I think that even though you left, and it made your H angry, at least you didn't make it worse by throwing it in his face verbally about the difference in his attitude between S and OC. Maybe, once you've both calmed down, you can sit down and let him know, w/o LB'ing, how it makes you feel at this time when he gushes over OC, and that you feel left out of OC's life, even though you are just a "step" parent to him, you still need to be involved if your M is going to continue. And, when you feel the need to LB, come here and do it, and get those shoulders to cry on before you talk to H.

I hope that I helped you out some, I may have more later, but Abbi is getting into stuff she shouldn't.

Tigger

one of the things Steve Harley asked my H to do was write out and then tell me what the A and OC did to me, whether he understood the feelings it has created in me.
My H finally did this the other day. He got many of the feelings down, but omitted some, which I was given an opportunity to fill in and then have him say it back to him.
The one H omitted, which I think he really got after I said it-was referring to what you are experiencing. The fact he had child with OW hurts me beyond measure. He used to say having our kids was best thing we have ever done together. NOt to brag, but our 3 kids are beautiful kids, and many people comment on how good looking they are.

Anyway, I told him he took what was supposed to be special to just us-having kids, going through pregnancy with me, seeing my body change, going through a delivery with OW, trying to involve self in life with OC, all that is gone, never to be replaced, since he did the same with another woman. It has ruined all that specialness for me.

I think that is what you are feeling, and for you to glady hear how thrilled H is with the child he fathered with OW is ridciculous. It is the worst thing to happen to me- I told him I have never been hurt by anyone in my life as badly as my H hurt me, and he was supposed to be the one who protected me and never hurt me.

I think your H is blinding himself to think what his joy has done to you-it is distancing you. I told H every time he defends OW or says how nice she is etc. I feel sick inside. She is not a nice woman to do this to me or my family. ENd of story. Just my thoughts.

I also have been a BS and WS so I see both sides as well.
I dont know how old your S is, But sometimes as we get older , we learn to interact more with the children.

OM says he is a better father than he ever was to his kids who are now grown and gone. AND I dont doubt that is true, I have watched him transform over the last few months and he is awesome with her.

The tricky part, If you are planning on being invloved, you could always do what we did.
WE made a meeting time and all met in a public place to introduce daughter to them.
Now mind you OM already had known her for a year, but his wife had and still has no idea. SO I think you should be pleased your husband came home and told you the truth. IN our case this man hid pictures he had and the fact that he had already bonded with D from every one.
IT may not seem great now, but he was honest he didnt hide it.
That is a good thing.
He removed pictures of OW from the album, that is good as well. shows he knows how you would feel.
OM'S wife put my picture in my d's room at their house. I am sure that is not easy, once my daughter brought it to om and he was cooking , so he stuck it on the fridge, lets just say that was a big LB , but she told me about it and we were both able to laugh about it. SHE actually left it till he put it up.. I would have removed it then and said so.

sharing your child with someone is very hard, But if that child is going to be in your life, it is easier if you open up and make it all in the open and participate as well.
Takes work on both sides, but I can tell you if His wife had approached me with anger and all the emotions that went witt he A... It would not have been as easy for me to learn to share, she and I have had to work so hard at being open in communication. It takes all of us.
somedays I want to run away and some she wants to run away lol But we have to do this.

If your ready to be involved then share this with your husband and be a part of it with him.

I am sure he did not mean to hurt you by his joy of OC and sometimes things like this happen.
people say things with out thinking, OM has called me babe twice in front of his wife, no one ever said a word and I ignored it, but I am sure she said something when she got into the car.
WE have pictures of OM and his wife with my daughter. we all share pictures so that is nice, it is possible to make a go of this, but you dont want to be left out of the ring. so I say join in if you can. If not , there is no shame in that, but you will not like the feeling of being left out.

OM's wife and I talk alot, sometimes too much I think. But she told me she was going to sit on the side lines and have nothing to do with that baby, but when she met her, she changed her mind instantly. It was an awkward meeting for us all, I was shaking like a leaf as were they, but we got that over with and have tried to move forward.

WE Have set backs ever so often and I find that when we do it is best to let her husband handle it, he knows her and I will most likely insight anger if I am angry my self.
My husband doesnt get as involved how ever he and OM talk some and we have lunch ocaisionally.

In fact friday we will all four be going to lunch.. yes I would rather eat glass. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . but this is important to them so I will go and smile and chat for my d. Then after wards my d will go shopping with his wife and the rest of us will go back to work.
She loves my daughter and has learned to love her .. I dont doubt her love if I did, I would not be as open to her taking her.
But it has got to this point because we all try to respect each other.

by the way dont you think it is easier for husband to be more loving and attentive to a child he isnt really caring for ? , after all he is not living with this baby, he does not change dirty diapers and get up all hours of the night, he doesnt have the dirty bottles and laundry.... kind of like what I tell my husband OF course she is more fun, she doesnt take care of 5 of your children, she hasnt waited up for you all hours of the night wondering if your dead. AND THEN praying she wont kill you.. she doesnt pick up your dirty clothes or you tools you never put up. she doesnt have to ask you to do something 40 times before she gets a response, my see how easy it is to be more fun. ALL she has to do is smile and have fun.. not too dificult is it.

Thank you all for responding, it helps sooo much to know others are out there and listening!

Tigger--
Thanks for validating my choice to walk out--I guess it was the lesser of two evils, and for now he's gonna have to settle for that, I suppose. I am glad he's being honest, which makes feeling angry and upset all the more difficult--H sees it as unwarrented because he did the right thing!

unhappy--
I totally like the way you summed up how it feels to be experiencing this. I keep having these intruding fantasies of having my own child. While I know this is not feasable or desireable right now, I think the fantasy stems from wanting that experience--having my H be thrilled to have a baby in all the right ways for once. I wonder if he would do that exercise for me.....hard to say.

Mof5--
I think you always bring an interesting perspective to things, and thank you for that.

One piece of info that I have only alluded to on the boards is about the OW. She is refusing to allow me to be involved. She controls all the visits he has through my M-i-L who hates me and has banned me from her house. The OW's "reasoning" is that I allegedly thretened the baby during a phone call from the hospital (SHE called US). She swears I threatened the baby with "SIDS" or "an accident". Apparently she had the whole maternity ward shut down and made a police report. Well, naturally I never made a threat and would of course NEVER hurt a child--that is ridiculous. But, it is her excuse and it has neatly erased me from this process so far--which was her goal since November of 00, when this affair began. Sadly, until there is a court order or until she decides to allow it, we cannot meet and my H cannot bring the OC to the house unless we sneak around. I strongly want to be involved, and try to help parent this poor kid.

My pain is that my H will not rock the boat right now for fear of having it used against us in court. BUT, it still hurts that his co-workers got to meet the baby and I haven't. As soon as I can, I will be involved.

Thanks all for the words of support--keep it coming if you have the time, it saves me a prison sentence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
EJ

EJMom2B:

Have you read about the Policy of Joint Agreement? That's the one major area that I see getting trampled. Your husband isn't protecting you from 'thoughtless' behavior. This would be where I'd spend the next few months trying to come to an agreement on how and when (as in always) to implement the POJA.

As far as what the OW did---filing false charges against you for threatening the child is abominable. If I were your husband I'd have no contact with her whatsoever, until you sued in court for establishing visitation and custody. You're not dealing with a 'regular' person here---you're dealing with someone who's more than willing to manipulate anything she needs to get what she wants. Doesn't your husband see that???

k
unfortunately when most couples are trying to fix a marriage, many times only one is willing to try the concepts on here.

although I think plan A is great for any marriage and can be adapted to most situations, I have been practicing a plan A of sorts with my husband and it has done wonders for our marriage... although he thinks this site is silly and has no interest in posting to any one, but does read a little here and there.

anny suggestions when only one spouse thinks its a good idea.

<small>[ July 17, 2002, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

MOF:

I was certainly the only one interested in MB in our marriage for quite some time (and my wife is nowhere near the 'rabid' supporter that I am).

When only one of you is working on it, there are several things that you can do:

1. Set a good example, AND use the terminology. Say "Policy of Joint Agreement" (or POJA) when you're coming to a decision---especially when it's in your spouse's best interests. Then they'll get the warm fuzzies from the benefits they're getting, and may associate MB principles with good things (which they should).

2. If you can get into counseling with Steve or Jenn, they'll want to 'interview' your spouse in regards to how you are actually doing in your Plan A efforts (in other words---are you on target with meeting needs, and are you avoiding lovebusting). Again, this speaks to the benefits of this type of counseling (if you're doing a decent job at it). And Steve and Jenn are experts in getting a somewhat reluctant spouse to give it a try.

3. If you've done a terrific job in Plan A-type behavior and it's not making enough of a change in your marriage for you to be able to stick with it, you've got the Plan B stick. You basically say to your spouse---
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"hey buster (or sister), have you been enjoying the last xxx months of the marriage??? Good. I want this to work as a two-way proposition; will you also join me in this? No---then I think we need a separation---because I don't want to burn out to the point where I hate you..."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, I don't recommend Plan B-type separations when there isn't an affair until you've spent a solid year refining Plan A (this doesn't apply for cases of abuse or addiction---you need to separate FIRST and then consider how to work on the marriage).

Those are basically how I'd approach it.

Thanks for your response

That makes sense and I do appreciate it. I dont want to take up ej's thread but that was some great advice many of us can use. I will see what I can do.

neither of us are having an affair, but I see things we need to improve on so as affair proof our marriage.
I pray that is possible,

K--

I do agree with the POJA, and it seems to be moving in that direction. We finally had a talk about all this last night, and both of us are kind of at a loss as to what to do about my feelings.

In reality, there isn't much he can do until there is a court order in place. If we demand she comply with our wishes now, we will only be causing drama that is unnecessary. In my head, I want what is best for my family (which now includes the OC, like it or not). Drama between his parents will not be good for him.

HOWEVER, sitting back and saying nothing is really, really hard when it evokes feelings that are this powerful in me.

Luckily, my H, while distracted by his own stuff, at least understands that, and is trying to be supportive of me.

thx!!
EJ

which now includes the OC, like it or not). Drama between his parents will not be good for him.

That is a very mature way to look at this and in time I hope the mother sees how hard you really are trying to make life good for that baby.

emotions run so very high all the way around and people say and do things they shouldnt.. in time these things will not be so important.

We all grow and move past the hurt in our own time.

I can see your situation from a couple different angles. My sister is in the same boat as you, and her husband treats her as though she's being unreasonable by demanding some one on one time with him (i.e. to not spend so much time with the OC). Divorce doesn't exist in my dictionary, but I told her that he's made it plain where his priorities are. They don't have any children between them, though, so that is something vastly different from your situation.

I myself am a BS, having just learned 3 weeks ago that my wife had a 4 month affair while I have been in Saudi Arabia. I was and still am crushed. Through a lot of prayer on both our parts, though, we are going to make a go of it and raise this child as our own. Cutting completely off from the other person, though, is a must! I would highly recommend that your husband be made to see that he really has a decision to make: your family, or this new one that he has with the OW. There is no way anyone can expect you to share your WS with someone else. There realistically should be no contact with the OW at all, ever.

Off my soapbox