My husband and I have been struggling with contact or no contact. I will be honest I feel that no contact would be best for me and our 4 children but I don't think it is what he wants. I have continued to tell him he needs to do whats best for him but I think he knows how much it will hurt me and is afraid of losing me. The OW knows that money is very scarse and she used that to get it in the court order that as long as he stays in contact he will only have to pay half of what was originally ordered. My H knows that contact w OC will be very upsetting for me and he really has no intention of making them part of our family. Recently she said if he sends a 20.00 check every week and calls every week she will send back the money that is coming out of his paycheck. I feel she is using this to keep H in her life, she says she is doing it to keep him in OC life. I am afraid if we do what she wants it will destroy our marriage but if we don't she will take him back to court for the whole amount and we will be out on the streets. I really don't know what to do and would like some advice from anyone.

((((((alwaysworried))))))

Sorry you are having to struggle with this, and sorry I can't provide better advice for you, as I am struggling with this and simmilar issues myself.

BUT, if it makes you feel any better your desire for no contact seems reasonable, and I can totally identify with your money worries.

Your OW sounds about as manipulative as mine--sadly as BS's we just have to sit back and take it for the most part--it is on the head of the WS to deal with OP. One thing I do demand is that my H tell me EVERY time he has any contact with her and that he keep his boundaries very tight about when and where the contact takes place. This sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, and has certainly improved over time.

--not to offend the OW's here--you are all so awesome I pray every day that my OW can become like you guys!--

My advice is like the blind leading the blind, but hang in there--at least you know you are not alone!
EJ

Thank you EJ for your reply, I have tried what you said about the contact w OW and H but it became clear that I had to insist on no contact with OW if our marriage was going to have a chance to recover. I fear that whatever road we take there will be ups and downs no matter what.

Thank you again and I hope that you and your H recover from this as well.

Always

no offense taken

I have been a bs before as well, I understand the feelings towards the other person.

You can only do what you are capable of.. that goes for all of us.

always worried

I dont think you have to make OW part of your family to have contact.. just the oc. While I think it is best for all parties involved to be kind to the other, it doesnt mean you have to be family.
this was a concern of mine as well because I think OM has thoughts that we should all just be pleased as punch about each other and doesnt understand why we are not.

My concern is that if you tell your husband to do as he feel he needs, if he finally does that will you be angry if it is not what you needed also.. I think for this to work both parties have to have some sort of agreement.
Not every one is capable of contact and while I feel if someone fathers a child he should be in that childs life, if it is not possible and his spouse will not or can not , then I have come to understand forcing it would be bad for them, but devistating to the children involved.
I would not want my child around someone who might harbor anger or show anger about me in front of them. Same goes for OM I expect EVERYONE in my family to show respect to him when he is in our home or in our presence, Because He is D's father and he deserves to be treated as such.
While all my kids are not crazy about him, they all show respect when he is in our home.
My Husband does have anger for this man, but is polite when around him, but that took work as well.
I have not been to court so I dont know all the rules and laws that apply, but I find it hard to believe the courts would give that kind of power to a woman over visits, I mean to say she has the right to ask for more if he doesnt see the child,
what good would a person be as a parent if he was forced into being one.
I am not speaking of the woman having the baby, thats been done, cant change that, but what kind of a woman would demand you love a child and use money to get that.. she is not thinking clearly whether her intentions are good or bad, she isnt putting child first, because if she were she would go away if someone didnt want to be in a childs life, that cant help that baby.

EJ
I appreciate your concern about offending, I worry about it also, but what we all have to realise is , we are all working on marriages or dealing with these issues in some way, and all situations are different, I dont see why we cant all help each other, I dont think it has to be OW against BS or vise versa, we should all be able to support each other..
I have personally learned alot from this site and reading all these stories and have learned from many BS and OW or FOW, FWS .. we are all people with feelings and lives who have been hurt in some way or another.
I have a marriage as well and have been married 18 years, I want my marriage to stay intact as well.
It needs work, thats for sure but I think it is worth trying.
One thing I have learned more about is how to be more understanding about OM's wifes pain and her feelings and that helps me try harder to relate to her and in return helps me deal with her in reguard to my D.

Hi aw,
Hmm... You know what *I* think? I think you should just let xOW do whatever she will because IMO, you are right, no contact with your xOW seems best. She is trying to control your marriage even without contact!!!??? Outrageous.

What if you just end contact and let the chips fall where they may. She is trying to keep the upper hand right now, it sounds like, and that is not right. And it all has to do with money. God will provide for your family. Trust His provision.

What if you and your H can prove on paper that your expenses far exceed your income--which might work to your advantage in court in the long run. They can't squeeze blood out of a turnip, right???

Mom of five, thank you for your advice on this although I don't think I could do things the way you are, but I am willing to try to come to an agreement its just that my OW whats it all and I think she will continue until she gets it. I will think about everything you said. Glad things worked out for you and I am sure it must not be easy. You are a very strong woman it sounds to me. Hope I find that strength someday.

BTDT, I agree to exactly what you said and it is want i think is best for now too. As far as the money situation we filled out all that paperwork showing income and and outgoing they didn't even concider it, they didn't even care that he has 4 children. In there words they are only concerned with the 2 children on the support order". I was not aloud in during the proceeding which i felt was unfair since my life is being altered by their decision. I was told it didn't concern me by the court. My H has come to realize that she is trying to manipulate everything but also feels concern for the OC. H also doesn't want to put our 4 children through any more hurt. It is very difficult to say the least. Thank you for your opinion. It helps to hear all opinions. Thanks again to all who responded.

alwaysworried,
as far as contact vs no contact goes, i think everyone has different situations and different feelings. i think we have to look at what is best for our marriage, not anyone else's marriage and not just what is best for us as individual wives or husbands. we've got to look at the whole package. think and pray and talk with your husband and do what is best for your marriage. don't let the ifs and wherefores scare you off from doing the best thing.

our ow was trying to get my husband and using oh so nice passive aggressive tactics too. she would make up stuff too. like she once called (his cell) saying that something was really wrong and that she needed him to come over and help, then she got real garbled and yells oh no the baby and hangs up. well my husband was freaked by that and rushed right over. turns out that her car was having trouble and she wanted his help fixing it while she stands around with her sultry outfit and trying to touch him and oh no the baby was supposedly pulling on a lamp cord. very manipulative. this stuff was regular. we were at a loss as to what to do. when he got strong enough to really make sure i was involved in everything then her tactics didn't work as well, but she still tried for awhile. then she cut off contact completely. by that time he had bonded and wanted contact. he felt like she was making him choose between me or kid.

i finally made a list of all of our options (regardless of how we felt about them), then my husband and i rationally looked at each one. we wrote down what could happen with each option and for each we then wrote down how everyone involved might be affected. there was me, husband, us as a couple, children we would hopefully have in future, oc, ow, our families, etc. the way he or i was affected was not necessarily the same as the way us as a copule would be affected. it is sometimes hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes to see how they will be affected by a decision, especially if there is some animosity towards them anyway. but we tried. after that we prioritized the people around us. that was hard. we put us as a couple at top. then we tried to negatively affect as few people as possible, while keeping in mind our people priorities. this took a lot of doing- in time, energy, patience, and emotion.

the way my situation ended is fairly unique. we have 100% custody and the ow has so far chosen not to contact us. still my feelings vary day to day. this was probably the best thing for our marriage, but not for me. it is very tough, and i have a lot of resentment. i don't want to blame oc. we live peaceably and i take care of oc, but sometimes i just want to lb scream why couldn't you have just kept it in your pants. his moments of pleasure have caused a lifetime of heartache for several of us. why oh why do they not think with their brain...

anyway, your life is changed. wouldn't a time machine be nice! but you can't go back. someone is going to be hurt with your decisions, but just prioritize with your husband, do what you believe is best/right and as btdt said let the chips fall where God allows.

oh and btw, i was not allowed in the courtroom either. i thought it was really stupid that they could place a child in my home and not even care what kind of person i am. especially in this oc situation. just goes to show how warped the courts are. i read on this forum that georgia cs laws are changing for the better. maybe other states will soon too!!

I dont by any means think my way is the best way or the only way... You just do what you need to do for you.. I only share because it might be helpful to someone along the way thats all..

some days I dont want to have contact with them as well.. But as parents my husband and I decided to gether we would not lie to our daughter thats all. we just do what we feel is best for our children all of them... I odnt want my children to see anger or hate among any of us. so this is just what is best for us.

In our situation, no contact was already decided by Mr."T" who wanted to give the child up for adoption. Ex-Ow wanted to call the shots, kinda like what your ex-ow wants to do. We did kind of what aimee did, wrote down all the options, weighed the pros and cons and decided to do what was best for our family and indirectly best for OC.

We do pay our CS, but Mr."T" signed sole care and custody over to Ex-Ow. I too was not allowed to go to court and like Aimee, wonder what the courts must think that they can alter our lives by allowing a child into our midst and not find out what kind of person we are or how we feel about it.

We are thankful that we settled out of court. That cuts down on a lot of Bull**** from the courts perspective. We want to be fair and pay what we are able...and like BTDT said, "can't get blood out of a turnip".

I pray that you have wisdom and discernment in what you decide to do and I pray for peace for you. Mr. "T" and I have peace about our decision, even though his family gives us grief about it in that nice, "passive agressive" way...*sigh*...there are no easy answers, but if you totally look at it from all perspectives and make the best decision, ultimately, it's what you and your H decide to do together to save your marriage.

I have seen No contact work and I have seen contact work...only you and your H know what you both are capable of.

My thoughts and prayers go to y'all...
Twiisty

Thank you everyone, even though each of our stories are different in some ways we are all searching for ways to cope with this situation. What might work for some may not work for others. It is amazing to me how many diferent outcomes there are and none of them right or wrong just what each couple needed to do to recover. I thank you all for your stories and advise but what it really comes down to is my H and I have to find our way and eventually we will know what is right for all of us. It is sad that someone needs to hurt at all, but i see no escaping that. I continue to struggle because I truly don't know whats best for all. I know what I can handle right now and I have been told I am being selfish. I don't hate the OC but I do still feel stabbing pains whenever they are mentioned. I feel they are a constant reminder and I don't know how to seperate them from the affair. You all are such wonderful people and I feel like a horrible person for having these feelings. My H has been doing alot to show me he is committed to us and for that I am happy. Thank you again everyone for your thoughts it has been greatly appreciated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what I can handle right now and I have been told I am being selfish. I don't hate the OC but I do still feel stabbing pains whenever they are mentioned. I feel they are a constant reminder and I don't know how to seperate them from the affair. You all are such wonderful people and I feel like a horrible person for having these feelings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can totally relate to how you feel. I have been called selfish too for not "allowing" oc into my life by my H's family. I don't hate the OC either. I still feel pain when I think about how I'm going to pay bills etc. or even when I look at my "mini-me" who is two weeks younger than OC.

Don't feel like a horrible person for your feelings...your feelings are your feelings...own them and in time you will release them. Time does heal alot of things...

Above all, you and no one else, know what you are capable of handling. You have a myriad of choices also. You can leave the door open for OC down the road after you have healed or you can cut off all contact or you can have contact. You do have some power over certain things. Don't let others rob you of that.

Above all, do what you and your H deem best...there is no one size fits all in this situation... I know that whatever you decide, it will be best.

No one wins in a situation like this. It's just what is going to be best for all in the big picture.

But, you are not a horrible person to have some very real feelings. If you would like to e-mail me, you can at cajun_honeybee@hotmail.com

hugs and prayers to you,
Twiisty

I remember struggling about contact.
I remember wanting nothing to do with the witch that had invaded my life, let alone the spawn of that invasion.

It’s not an easy thing, Contact. It is very heart wrenching. For me, there is a pain that I cannot shake, EVERY week. That pain is that this child should have been mine. She should have been born to H and me. She should never have been given this “curse” of being an OC.

My little angel, though she is not “bone of my bone,” or “flesh of my flesh”, turned one this last weekend. She is still MINE. She is my daughter through love. And that is where it counts.

Contact with the exOW is twice a week, for about 5 minutes total. We don’t sit around chatting about everything under the sun. We may say something in regards to which tooth is beginning to cut through, or something along those lines… but that is all.

Our parenting time with Lil Bit is for 86hrs a week. We have her for 4 nights out of the week and 3 full days. We have partial days on Wednesday and Sunday. So that leaves exOW 3 nights and 2 full days. She has partial days on Wednesday and Sunday as well. Though they are more her days than ours, they are both partial days.
We have her from Wednesday nights through Sunday mornings. I work days and H works nights. We don’t have to worry about daycare, as exOW does.

Contact for me is bittersweet. I find that I am often reminded of my fertility problems.
I also find that I love spending time with this little girl.
Some days I get so angry about the way this has come about, other days I am grateful that the Lord has allowed me to grow even in the face of this mess.

Contact is not something that everyone can handle. I didn’t think I would be able to do it. And had it not been for the fact that exOW had such a horrible history with her children and exBF’s I would probably not have been able to find it in my heart to do this.

My suggestion… weigh every aspect of Contact vs. No Contact. Discuss it fully with H.
Like you said, “H and I have to find our way and eventually we will know what is right for all of us”

Good Luck aw…
My prayers and thoughts are with you.

Stacia and Twiisty thank you so much for those kind words. It does make me feel better that I am not the only one who has those feelings. I know sometimes i worry too much about what other people think of me. My inlaws have been very good actually no one in the family has given us any trouble about it they have kept there opinions to themselves for the most part. I did in the beginning have a problem with my MIL she new H was having an affair and so did BIL that made me angry but I also felt like such a fool.
For a long time I had noone who understood my feelings that I could talk to and believe me I am the type of person who needs to talk alot sometimes until i am blue in the face, I seem to feel better when I do. H is the opposite he doesn't like to keep talking about it. So I used to write things down. I like this better because here i can talk and people respond. My H has also seen a change in me regarding that and it has helped us a great deal.

Twiisty- thank you for the email address, I may take you up on that.

Stacia- Its hard to believe you had any of those type of feelings with how loving you speak of Lil Bit. I have 4 children and lost 2 during my marriage. I love children very much and I hope that I can overcome these feelings. I did try once but we had a setback and i can't seem to let myself do it again.

I am so happy for both of you and I pray we will find our way also.

aw

Hmmm... I don't think it is "selfishness" as much as it is being protective of your marriage which was at one time vulnerable to this OP...

No contact doesn't even mean that you don't care about the OC, either?!?! OC has a parent! A parent who decided to give birth out of wedlock. That is what single-parenting is all about.

I don't believe the married couple has an obligation to the OC beyond CS, really. Maybe some would think that is immoral? Maybe some would think it is being selfish, but maybe it is more about protecting the marriage against the destructive OP who disregarded that union in the first place???

Someday I might look back and change my mind, but this is just how I feel and "where I am" in my thinking today...

To everyone who is involved in the OC's life, my hat is off to you! It cannot be easy.

always,
I'm a bit late here, but I am attracted to your deliemma. You are absolutely right that ultimately you and H must chose together what works for your family. However, you also asked for advice.

This woman sounds very manipulative and stubborn to keep trying to drag your H back into her life. It is POSSIBLE to have visitation with OC withot having great conflicts with XOW, but I honestly believe it is RARE. There are exceptions(!), but most XOW seem to have very immature behavior. They cannot accept that MM and his W are a FAMILY and that she (XOM) must accept them as such for any kind of "normal" "step-child" visitation/relationship. For the good of the child, any visitation should be that type, the lets-try-to-get-along-respectfully that Momof5 describes, with minimal contact between the two families due to the adultery. But again, from reading posts here for YEARS, I can tell you that mutual respect coming out of the ashes of adultery is RARE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We are long distance from XOW/OC, so our only contact in 4yr. has been by mail. H and I have tried the mutual-respect thing as best we can, but XOW shows her true colors. This week she wrote me that the mail/gifts I send OC doesn't count <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , that only H can ask about his OC, etc.,etc. Broken record. She doesn't "get it" and twists every single thing I say to try to make me look like the bad guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm not playing any more. I regret sending OC anything; I regret having played into XOW's hand; because XOW's only used it to tell twisted lies to the OC, to coach OC to grieve over a father OC's never met <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , and to emotionally blackmail my H. She's sick and since we cannot outright "rescue" the OC, the next best thing we can do it stay out of it.

Good luck on your situation. Every situation is different.

Prayers,
J
in recovery 4 years and glad I stayed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTDT said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe the married couple has an obligation to the OC beyond CS, really. Maybe some would think that is immoral? Maybe some would think it is being selfish, but maybe it is more about protecting the marriage against the destructive OP who disregarded that union in the first place???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot agree with her more and thank her for putting the situation into the proper perspective. Regardless of whether the xOW is a cooperative and wonderful person or she is a witch from hell, the simple fact is she and your H had an A. This is not the person that you would like to now begin a long-term relationship with. This is not the person that you want your H to share a separate life and secrets with.

So, the whole contact issue comes down to how secure the marriage is at this point and whether or not the parties of the marriage feel that it can stand the type of emotional misgivings that regular contact with the xOW is bound to create.

As the BS, we don't have to care about the OC -- we have to care about rebuilding our marriage. If there is another security in the marriage and proper boundaries among all the adult parties, then contact can work. But if any of the parties is not ready or capable of respecting the boundaries and respecting the marriage then contact is not a good thing.

It took me a long time to understand that the OC was not MY problem. I obsessed and worried about contact and what effect "no contact" would have on the child. Then I began to understand that the OC had her mother and my H to worry about her I should worry about my marriage. That is when things started to turn around.

Things change during the course of the marriage once you go through the process of forgiveness and transformation. Many people, when they feel their marriage is more focussed and back on track, opt for contact. But in the beginning, for the first couple of years when feelings are so hurt and raw and concentration has to be on rebuilding the marriage, everyone should be guided by how much they can tolerate to feel comfortable.

Don't feel that you are a terrible person, aw, for not opening your arms to the OC immediately. I think you have had enough replies to know that you are dealing with the situation in a very normal way and your feelings are the same as those we have all had.

My H jumped through hoops for the xOW because she kept threatening him with increased CS. He did everything she asked to the point of even excluding me from the entire situation and eventually sneaking around behind my back to see the OC. Looking back on that period in our life, I think I would have rather had less money and a more honest relationship. But admittedly, I did not have 4 children to be responsible for.

But there may be options that you can work out to make the financial situation more comfortable. Part of the problem with an OC is that you have to make so many adjustments in your life to accommodate this situation. Some of the posters on MB have even staged divorces to ensure that the children of the marriage received the lion's share of CS to prevent the xOW from seeking huge payments.

Think carefully and sensibly about your options. Seek legal advice. Every state is different and you need to have a lawyer from your state explore all the possibilities of how you can protect yourselves from this woman.

We are all behind you, aw. It is a terrible situation and I am praying that you will see clearly how to handle it in a manner that will be best for your marriage and family.

God bless you,
love,
heavenly

Dear AlwaysWorried,
Please read all of these answers carefully.

Do not feel guilty for your thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This week she wrote me that the mail/gifts I send OC doesn't count , that only H can ask about his OC, etc.,etc. Broken record. She doesn't "get it" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As Jenny said this is the way most OW act.

Ours did when we tried seeing oc.

She called and told me I couldn't come to get oc because H was the Father and she was the Mother. I was nothing to "their" child so I could just forget visits in the future. H would have to go to her home.

After all last summer and games ow played including calling H's cell at will, coming up to him at a gas station w/oc asking H to hold him, (he didn't) , following H's truck whenever she saw it, calling me and becoming a screaming lunatic after a few drinks while she was out telling me H left home because he wanted her more than me and whenever I was w/H to remember he was all over her....~sigh~....That I kept H in a cage..That he'd be w/oc if it weren't for me...

To make a long story short H and I decided the constant turmoil wasn't worth it.

H said how eerie he felt seeing me hold oc on that one 2 hr. visit. Didn't love oc or feel anything but guilt for what had happened to oc and ow's family. It was as if oc were her only c!

Our marriage began to heal at a quicker pace w/o all the worry.

We are both comfortable w/our choice.

We pay cs and health ins.
BTW ow c's are on medicaid. A shame. She's wealthy. I wish a lot in our system could change, but it won't so we just keep on moving forward together. She has a trust fund that she needen't show as income, for any reason, cs included.

By dropping all the stress we are healthier.
I hope you read all these answers again and again.
It's usually bs who has to swallow more than his/her fair share when visits take place. Sort of keeps A up front and in the mind forever.

God bless you, AW, whatever your decision is.

love
Debi

alwaysworried,
My opinion is your H has to be honest with you 100% if he wants contact - whether this will hurt you or not. You don't want him to be in a silent struggle with it if you guys decide on no contact and then start to sneak off to see OC which means seeing OW behind your back. If there is any possible way to work out paying the court ordered child support try and do it to avoid giving the OW so much control. Sometimes that price is very high to take away the OW's control but very much worth it. As far as my own personal opinion on contact - we chose zero, but my H was very insistent on this - more than me. He wants nothing to do with OC ever. I even asked him what if OC one day comes looking for him and he said he will explain situation to OC when that day comes. This has worked best for us so far and I really don't care if it's selfish or not. I have been very unselfish in this whole situation
but at some point I drew the line. So hang in there and remember to tell your H to be totally honest about how he feels or else it will only cause more pain later.

gingersweet