I have a feeling I'm a little more left wing than others here, so please don't get angry when I say...

Women in this country have fought too long and too hard to break the glass cealing to be espousing ideas such as

"I'm not going to go to work every day and have a healthy, well-bodied man sitting around in the house, I don't care how good he can cook! If anybody is going to be at home, its me! That's the way I was raised! Men worked! A man would be ashamed to say he was at home while his wife worked!!" (from lucious's post)

No, I do not believe that every woman was meant to work, just as every woman wasn't meant to be a stay-at-home mom. I myself would go bug crazy trying to stay home all day--this from someone who works 40 hours and puts in a 20 hour internship to boot.

And the way I was raised was to respect each person's decision for his/her own life, not to demand that it be done by this or that way. I was raised that we have the freedom in America to be whatever we want, not to be held down by sexist, dated rules. Unless we want to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Maybe this pushed my buttons because that was my H's excuse to have an affair--I was too independent, going to school and pursuing a career and all that feminist nonsense. And I pride myself on hanging in there--now because of his layoffs, I am supporting our family financially. We learned that if he stopped the abuse, I could meet his ENs whether or not I was working. I am more attentive now than I ever was, as well as more busy.

Bottom line is, zebrababy has every right to celebrate and my jealousy of her good fortune is almost visible lol.

No more nastiness, ya'll!
EJ

Thanks for the threat, Tigger, which is what I or no one else needs! I'm not shaking in my boots for expressing my opinion and I'm not impressed by your tirade, either! But yes, I do understand that the money going to the OW was affecting Z, too because it was coming from her house. But hey, that's the price you pay for trying to do right! And if he really thought the kid was his, it was right to pay until proven otherwise. My problem is when you want to complain about paying but yet you chose to stay! Deal with it! And once again, I don't think my life will be broken in pieces because of an internet chat site!

Oh, and I did forget but as far as the roles reversal thing, I said that it frowned upon when I was younger and yes, I agree that probably the danger is in the workplace with women equalling men in the workforce and they have more opportunities to meet women. That's pretty much true! I think a lot of these affairs are starting in the workplace and I see it pretty much on the regular myself!

My mother always taught me never to argue with drunks, fools and trolls.
Just let this thread drift away.

Jtigger

A simple fact is that most ow want MM to "pay" for not getting their man.
Hence cs!
They know a pregnancy means just that.
BTW cm, did marry man hog tie and blindfold you?
CS is unjust when it happens to original family. It happens to the whole family. A double whammy for BS to bear and I will say that forever.

Before you say things that you know nothing about or are involved in, tell your H who's your baby's daddy. Wonder if he'll like the fact he'll pay support for a c that isn't his? SEE? UNJUST laws favoring women.

And wib, who asked you anything? Not me. I wasn't asking for your opinion, only telling things as they are in todays immoral, unjust, world.

I thought you were going to quit responding here to anything. hmmmmm...guess you couldn't resist, huh?
Tigger4jdt, I agree, now that I've made my exit response.

I'm not going to comment if OW's get pregnant on purpose, some probably do, and some probably don't.

Not all pregnancies are planned.I do know that birth control fails. It did for me, 4 times. Yes, each of my children were conceived from different forms of birth control that failed, including a fourth pregnancy that resulted in a miscarriage. The last failed birth control was the most effective on the market.

Well well well, ya'll have been busy while I was at work. Where to begin:

Let's start with my "friend" luscious. she said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To Z: I can promise you I am not who you [censored]-u-med I was! I'm laughing now! I am not your OW or any of those other guesses someone else said! I wasn't attacking you, I was merely asking a question because from your commentary, you proudly said I am the breadwinner!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I am the breadwinner in my home.... i'm the breadwinner that climbs the corporate ladder. My quote is here:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In fact in my household I am more the traditional father. I'm the breadwinner who climbs the corporate ladder to provide for my family. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I should have been more clear for the simple closeminded people who could possibly read my post and [censored]-u-me that I am the ONLY breadwinner. The fact, like I stated before, is my husband is a non-corporate breadwinner. He is an independent contractor with the flexibility to be there in the mornings and evenings with our children.

I recognize your right to have the opinion that in your life women should be the one to stay home if one spouse does. But I do not agree that you should imply that everyone else is wrong or should be ashamed of doing it different than you.

Luscious also said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And what I meant was, you didn't create the possible child support situation so you shouldnt' be in it!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How could I not be in it. When money is coming out of my household. We pay bills to raise and maintain this family together. When less is in the pot it affects me. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its your husband's problem, he created it! And if you want to be in it, then you would have to accept that fact and deal with it!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post thoroughly. I was in it, I accepted it, and I am the one that did most of the dropping off of items, picking OC up when we had visitation, etc. I was "dealing" with it, as you the expert have mandated I should. <sarcasm>

CM said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"What if your H blackmailed you into parenthood?"

Blackmail in this context would be equivalent of binding the person and forcing sexual intercourse, because there is a preconceived risk of conception before hand. All men know which birth control method is 100% fool proof. Blackmail, please.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually CM there is a possible senario to blackmail a woman into having a baby. I have an older friend that had it done to her. She didn't want children ... always knew this and had the agreement of her husband that they would not have children. Years into their marriage the H agrees to a vasectomy so that the wife can get off BC. Only problem was ... he didn't have the procedure done. Lied to his wife. Once she was pregnant he knew she wouldn't abort the child. She was forced into motherhood. They are now divorced and he has custody of the child. She is an unhappy mother (btw, she doesn't pay CS. the H didn't seek any in the divorce.) So you see CM, it is possible.

luscious said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It just amazes me that both women, one on one side and the other on the other side both seem to think that they're the cat's meow! Wonder why? Somebody is being deceived somewhere! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've read those boards too, many of them are not as proud and happy as you seem to interpret. Most are sad and angry they don't have more time with their beloved MM. They are angry that they can't get a committment. They are distraught that he stays with his wife and won't choose them. They bytch and moan about how he doesn't call and all he excuses he comes up with to cancel afternoon delights in the back of the chevy, etc. And most of all they talk about how lucky some other OW is that she gets a sleepover! I read on those sites about a bunch of women who are in second place .... never coming first.

Now with regards to me.. My OW isn't meowing about [censored]! She's alone with her four illigitimate kids in a dump apartment with no car. Her boyfriend dropped her like a hot potato when she announced her OC was my H's. And now he won't even talk to her. Who's meowing now? I don't worry about that trashy whore now, because I and my H got to see her true colors during this whole 1.5 year fiasco since d-day. She looks really unattractive under that truth light!

CM said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are not a BS,OW or WS, then you have no idea why both women or men for that matter, want to be the cat's meow in their relationship(s),nor does anyone here expect that you would.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CM that's the first thing you have ever said that made me say, "you go girl!" You hit the nail on the head!

luscious said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A man would be ashamed to say he was at home while his wife worked!! And some of these men ARE just sitting around, letting their woman take care of them! That's how they get into trouble; too much time on their hands! He's probably talking to another woman while she's at work! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is raising healthy well balanced kids something to be shameful of. Wow you are narrow minded. Very scarey.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who knows, quite frankly, in my experience, you'd be wiser to be more worried about the spouse that is at work, meeting other people in the workplace. Men and women at home raising kids and taking care of the domestic responsibilites have alot less time to be engaged in an affair during their day. Anyone with little kids can attest to that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another high five to CM ... you are on a role today.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My problem is when you want to complain about paying but yet you chose to stay! Deal with it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Luscious, exactly where did you see me complain? We paid, we didn't get happy every time we wrote the check, but we felt good that it was helping a little girl who needed it. Thus the reason we haven't sued that hefer's [censored] for our money back!

Well there... I think I've said enough. Thank you to all my friends that pounced to my defense today and late last night while I was offline. I love ya'll.

And finally to Luscious. Get a life lady/man ... you don't know jack about my life, my marriage, my H's affair or his alleged OC. Your narrow Leave It To Beaver reality is so outdated and biased. You probably think us black folks should still be drinking out of the "colored only" water fountains and sitting in the back of the bus. Because that "was the norm years ago" and what everyone in your neighborhood thought was right.

Now lets shut this bad boy down. Let's shoot this thread in the foot and put it out of it's misery. There are posters like WIB that will never get what we are trying to say about the unfairness of CS laws.

Whewwwww ya'll got me tired of typing!

Z.

<small>[ July 24, 2002, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</small>

Gem, No one asked YOU anything either. I was merely stating MY opinion just as you were. You aren't the ONLY person with an opinion you know. Maybe you DON'T know that. Grow up!!

And Zebra, I am not saying anything about the laws. It is not for me to say weather they are fair or not. I don't really know. But I will NEVER agree that a man who creates a child should have NO financial responsibilty. Can you imagine them keeping it in thier pants if that were the case????

<small>[ July 24, 2002, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: want it back ]</small>

Oh gemini, i know plenty. I don't make up facts and pull notions out of my... out of the sky to suit my arguements. I have no problem coming around and admitting when someone is right and when I changed my mind because someone made an excellent point. You act as if WS/OW have affairs all by their lonesome. It doesn't make any sense.

You are like one of those kids growing up who comes up from behind and pegs s another little kid and then runs away instead of sticking around and facing up. You came here and shared your opinion but you can't face others who don't agree with it. Rather than address the differences in opinion, you lash out hoping to discredit or push a poster back into lurking-hood. You are a coward to post an opinion and then run from it. No better than any other coward among us; get off your soap box before you fall off.

First off, I didn't ask for financial support from my MM. I CHOSE not to include him. I would never ask for cs from my H if and when he is told the truth. I don't need the $$. I've said that how many times now? hear it and move past it. If I wanted to make my MM of 7 years pay because I was bitter, I'd have done that years ago. I don't have bad feelings toward him. We agreed that things would work out if I do decide to tell my H. He is not trying to talk me out of it. I'm not out for revenge because I chose to walk away. I won't share with you why I've decided to NOT tell my H about my A to this point because quite frankly, I don't like you and don't care to. But if I do proceed with the plans I've made for all of our lives, you'll be sure to read about it, since you'll be old and grey hanging out here instead of living life. You will never get over your M problems with the attitude that you have. Internally ugly. At least the rest of us have open minds and a desire to MOVE on for goodness sake instead of wallowing in your self pity.
Hog tie? Hell no! There was no "blackmail" involved in us conceiving a child together. We both knew the risks. We talked about it several times over our 7 years together. We knew the deal and we proceeded inspite of it all.
You missed the point Gemini, but I am not surprised that logic bypasses you. I won't bother to explain the obvious. You pull ideas out of the sky or maybe from one of your orifices and then don't want to hear from anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Gemini you are miserable and you seem to want to spread it around. I for one am THRILLED TO HEAR FROM WIB. If you don't like it, oh well, who asked you anyway?

<small>[ July 24, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

WIB,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And Zebra, I am not saying anything about the laws. It is not for me to say weather they are fair or not. I don't really know.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I can say for sure they are not fair. How can a system that awards CS based on only one parents income be fair. If the custodial parent makes $1,000,000 per year he/she can still get 17-20% (depending on the state) of the non-custodial parent's $30,000 year even if he/she is trying to support other kids from a marriage or otherwise.
How is that fair.

Those % aren't based on actual dollars needed to raise a child either. Independant studies have been done to calculate the $ needed. The percents were set up with lower incomes in mind.

Can you agree that a non-custodial parent should have their CS based on the actual dollars being used to support that individual child and that other child obligations (legitimate or otherwise) should be considered.

Do you not agree that a tax break should be given to both custodial and non-custodial parents since the are both contributing to that child's welfare?

Do you not agree that both biological parent's incomes should be used to assess how much CS is needed to raise that child in the USA?

If you can agree with these points then you would be in the majority of what all of these women are trying to say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I will NEVER agree that a man who creates a child should have NO financial responsibilty. Can you imagine them keeping it in thier pants if that were the case????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not many think that men should get off scott free and not pay a dime to support children they seeded. There are men out there that would abuse it ... just as there are women that abuse the system now.

But each case has got to be looked at for it's own merits. It's just a shame that a man can commit murder and there are all sorts of degrees of that same murder. Fact is a person dies ... but the sentence can vary depending on the circumstances.

Not so with child support. Isn't a child's life worth closer examination. I know my kids lives are worth it. I sure as heck would want a judge to consider them in any decision that would affect them.


Just my humble opinion, I could be wrong.

Z.

Well Zebra, I guess you have just made my point for me. I don't think that I have ever engaged in any discussion about the points that you have just made. I have simply stated that I feel the man is responsible financially in some way. I have never stated that I agree with the laws. In fact I have stated MANY times that I think the amount of CS paid by some of these men is ludicrous. Ask Catnip, she knows I feel this way. I thank you for jumping down my back for something that I never said or did. It only proves my point more. Because I am a WS or OW or whatever you want to call me then I am automatically wrong and in disagreement all the time. Too bad that preconcieved notion exhists with you people. You don't even take the time to READ what is written.

Well, Well, Well WIB and CM,
I POSTED here and you two were the ones who picked out things I SAID and took issue with them.
As far as running away from it. I'm not.

I still say cs laws are unjust and each and every circumstance needs looked into.

CM when your h finds out the truth which you so sneakily hide from him, he will no doubt be devastated.
If he wants cs from your MM we'll see what MM says then, he's off the hook as long as it's still a secret isn't he? And MM do say lies to ow don't they? See how nice he becomes then, when the truth is out.

And wib, you are the miserable one, not me.
I'm only sorry that my H had the affair and oc, but we're doing fine thankyou. It's been almost two years from my d-day and two and a half since A ended. If he could go back he'd change it all as he's verbalized over and over. She simply was a spoiled brat who didn't get her prize.

And now she sits w/4 kids and no dad for any.
We are out and her H lives thousands of miles away.
Bet she wishes she could go back too, eh?

CM, before you judge what any of us have to say, deal with your dishonesty. PERIOD.

WIB, you won't be needing this board any more so go to divorce board, they're all over the internet.

Neither of you are dealing with what a lot of newcomers here are dealing with.

So go before you scare them away.

If you won't quit saying flaming remarks about "it takes two" and "MM should be responsible" then just go, we don't want to hear it anymore. Most of us know it takes two to make a c....we all know parents should be responsible for kids, but the LAWS NEED CHANGED, got it?

This used to be a safe place to talk but since the likes of you it isn't anymore.

Follow MB principals and pray for peace of mind. God will take you to where you need to be.

Worked for us.

Gem, Did you go to school? Can you read? Did you read my posts? Did I say you were miserable? Did I say the CS laws DIDN'T need to be changed? Have I said anything about YOUR H or HIS A?

Once again. YOU have no right to tell ME where to post. I am still married. Have not filed for D. Still hope to make my M work. And there is an OC in the picture. I'd say that means I belong right HERE.

Catnip made excuses for you once but this is ridiculous. And no, the nasty things you say to me don't bother me in the least. They only make you look bad. In my first post on this thread I suggested that everyone leave this alone before it got to this. It was a question for ZB and you tried to turn it into another CS debate, another OW/OC bashing session. Nothing productive.

And ZB,
Funny, I never attacked you or said one bad thing about you. In fact, I stood up for you in regards to the original poster. Yet you felt the need to attack me anyway. What does that tell you? I know what it tells me.

BTW, Pops wants to take OM in his case for everything he's worth. Make him pay through the nose. I never see any of you saying anything to him about OMs innocent W or kids. Is it because pops carries the label of "BS" and not "WS" or "OW"? Something for you guys to really think about.
Sorry pops, I'm just trying to make a point.

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: want it back ]</small>

Gemini,

Didn't you say you had made your EXIT post already? I guess you changed your mind. Funny how you condemn others for changing their minds, yet you are entitled. How convenient your bias are.

I POSTED here and you two were the ones who picked out things I SAID and took issue with them.
You are talking out of your @ss so yeah, I took issue with what you said. You've ignored questions that challenge anything you have said and try to discredit those of us that don't agree with you. I'm not surprised that you can't have a logical discussion, you are full of assumptions and generalizations based on your little mind mentalilty

I still say cs laws are unjust and each and every circumstance needs looked into.
Did any one argue the point that some of the applications of CS laws are unfair? No one here has said anything to the contrary. This isn't what you said. You said that lack of CS would act as a deterrent to OW having children by their MM. That is what you said dear gemini and when challenged on it, you changed the subject to how CS laws are not applied fairly.

CM when your h finds out the truth which you so sneakily hide from him, he will no doubt be devastated.
My husband knows alot more than even I realized. Yet, he will be devestated if and when he is told and all is confirmed. I don't need you to tell me this, other BS here who have been so helpful to me about how to approach this situation have enlightened me very well of what to expect. They have even offered their support and their spouses have offered theirs.

I have discussed with my ex-OM the possiblity of my H wanting him to pay CS. I don't personally see that happening because I know my H and he won't want OM in the picture at all. But if he does, we'll work it out, outside of the courts. We've already decided for ourselves. We have a quasi-plan together for a fair amount of the what if situations. I didn't have a short time A, I know my OM very well and the fact that he is not trying to talk me out of telling H and talking about other issues, tells me, that we will work things out with mutual satisfaction. I do not doubt it, sorry to disappoint you.

And wib, you are the miserable one, not me... /B]

Sure could have fooled me. You seem very miserable, which is why I said that. Not wib.

[B]CM, before you judge what any of us have to say, deal with your dishonesty. PERIOD. Period? I think not. I have every right to respond to anything that is said here. If you want picture perfect posters, we'd all have to vacate, namely you, because you are no better than anyone else in the mental health department. You seem as sick to me and I am to you. I shall deal with my issues when I decide to or for that matter, if I decide to. If you don't like it, don't know what more to say than, too bad for you.

WIB, you won't be needing this board any more so go to divorce board, they're all over the internet.

Here you go again, talking out both sides of your mouth. And this would be a MB prinicpal? Not to support a person here working on her M?
BTW,
Who died and made you queen? WIB and all of us make our own decisions lady. If and when any of us decide to leave, it is our choice.
Oh, wib did ask a question about whether or not you went to school. I wonder myself. Can you read beyond like the 2nd grade level? The admin made a nice little note for us all to read. If you can't comprehend it, I'd suggest you ask one of your friends if you have any, to read it for you. Then perhaps you'd realize how inappropriate this particular comment is.

If you won't quit saying flaming remarks about "it takes two" and "MM should be responsible" then just go, we don't want to hear it anymore. Most of us know it takes two to make a c....we all know parents should be responsible for kids, but the LAWS NEED CHANGED, got it?

You are really ignorant. Again, you didn't say the laws needed to be changed. You said they should be abolished. If you want to go to a place where everyone says what you want to hear, consider a communist or socialist state. This is America, as one of the other BS's pointed out to me, where we are all entitled to share different views. We don't have to agree on every point. Its actually ok.
You don't like hearing certain things as you say. I don't like hearing what you said in your post. So when you say those things, I will remark to them. You obviously don't believe what you are saying. On one side of your mouth you say you believe it takes 2 to make a child then from the other side you talk about how you man was blackmailed into it or how cs shouldn't be given to a woman who has his or any MM child. Which is it??!

This used to be a safe place to talk but since the likes of you it isn't anymore.

Don't you mean to say a safe place to #itch and moan and sling mud in the faces of people who you don't agree with? It still is a safe place I believe. If you don't like the "likes" of me or whoever, don't let the door hit you on the way out. What more do want? Build you own private web page if all you want is people to agree with you. I don't know what more to say about that.

Follow MB principals and pray for peace of mind. God will take you to where you need to be.

Worked for you? You've got to be kidding. Nearly all of your posts are filled with rage and anger. Peace of mind is not what you've got going on.

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

OMG...not again...ugh
Gem...and the others like YOU...ACCEPT the fact that there are OW that are on this board and if they upset you so much that you need to be DISRESPECTFUL...maybe it is YOU that needs to leave. I am so sick of this "old school" "good old days" CRAP. We're all here for a reason....a really SH*TTY one at that...no one's pain is more than anyone elses...I had a few valid poins to make on this thread and now they've all gone out the freaking window ..AARRGGHHHHHHHHHHH

Actually, does anyone remember when sex was first discussed on television? It was on "Leave it to Beaver".

June says to Ward at the breakfast table, "Ward, don't you think you were a little hard on the beaver last night?"

Catnip =^^=

GROANNNNNNNN Catnip that was bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Anyone know who the first couple to appear on TV in the same bed were?

well lucy was the first prgnant woman
I think lucy and ricky or robert and laura petri

Gotta be Ozzie and Harriet.

Tina

The Mary Kay and Johnny" show in 1947