</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who are you and why do you think the best advice I've read here is the worst advice for living one's life?

You must be very young and unscathed by regret and remorse to say something so preposterous.

Living with regret and remorse is debilitating and destructive. Shame and guilt squeeze the soul and breaks the heart.

"To thine own self be true"

Catnip =^^=[/QB][/QUOTE]

AMEN Catnip. Very well said.

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

CMiranda - how insightful. I noticed the same thing, but didn't know how to phrase it.

I know about regret from an abortion. I was young, and for years afterwards I felt guilt. I had it 20 years ago. I still feel guilty. Since then I have given birth to 3 children, one miscarriage, plus I have taken many classes required for my new career. From the education I have received and my own experience of the miscarriage, I know exactly how developed a FETUS is. Out of respect for OMTM, I will not share this information unless she requests it.

As CMiranda said, abortion is a very sensitive issue and I will not aggressively push my views on anyone, but I will explain what I know to those who want to know it.

Now Gordo, if you should choose to come back here, please show more respect for other posters. Everyone has the priveledge of trying to help others here. Everyone here is supposed to treat all with respect. You showed lack of respect for me and for OMTM with the tone you used. Now, with this being said, I will ignore any further posts from Gordo. I will not get into a words of war or dignify his repsonses with a response.

I'm hoping he was one of those hit and run posters I've heard about.

OMTM- you stated in a previous post that everytime you attempted to get an abortion, something happened to prevent it and you believe in divine intervention. Whether this child has a particular purpose in this work or whether the intervention was because the "higher power" knew that if you went through with this, you might not have been able to live with the guilt or whatever other reason there was for the intervention, who knows. My spiritual beliefs are not those of the conventional ways. But I believe in "god almighty". I believe things happen for a reason. So we are here to help you and support you with regards to what you decide to do.

Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm not entitled to one. What gives any one else a monopoly on the truth? The lady asked for advice, I gave her my advice. I didn't come on here and ask you what you thought of me, because I really don't care. And your ad hominem attacks are going straight to the trash.

Gordo...

There is a huge difference between offering advice and being a clod and insensitive.
It is all in the delivery, Gordo.

We are taking up a collection to send you to Charm School.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Thats fine, gordo. My message about your post wasn't meant for you anyway so feel free to trash it. I have no interest to argue your pov. Its all in the delivery and you are lacking.
I am only interested in helping OMTM.

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to give you an update on what is going on in my life.

As difficult as the decision was, I finally decided to carry on with the pregnancy. This was an emotional decision, not a conscious one because the rational part of me wanted to end the pregnancy.

I need to be honest and state that I did try three more times to go through with termination, but I just couldn't do it. There was one point where I was actually on the table in stirrups, seconds away from the implantation of the lamina strips and I had to stop the doctor not once, but twice! I was shaking like a leaf, and all of a sudden felt like I had to escape. This was the hardest thing I have ever done because I knew that not only was I screwing up my life at this moment, but there are several other people that would be affected by this decision. I'm really hating myself at the moment, and I'm scared about the path that I have now chosen.

I feel really guilty too because I lied to the father and told him that I had already terminated the child. This was done because we had an appointment to go to the clinic and he blew me off. I was feeling extremely hurt, and abandoned, and the lie just "slipped" out. I'm not sure if I should tell him the truth, or just let it go. He doesn't want a child, and I'm not certain that I want him to be a part of this child's life. I'm so confused.............

I'm still open to the idea of adoption, but something is telling me that I will not be able to give the child up. I'm going to do some real soul searching on this. Anyone feel like inoutting, I really need some advice from people with clear perspectives.

OMTM,

It was good to see your update on your post! I am glad that you have made the decission to go through with the pregnancy. At the end of your post, you, again, mentioned leaning towards adoption. Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer for your situation! Adoption, or raising another child alone is something that you need to decide on your own. Neither choice will ever be easy, and you need to be sure it is the choice you can live with!

That is the best advice I can offer right now. Is there anything more specific that you have questions about, or something that is bothering you? What about your (x)SO? Do you still want to reconcile w/him? I also noticed that you have told the OM that you already went through with an abortion, but if you give the baby up for adoption, he also needs to sign the papers. I don't really see him fighting you on that, as he doesn't even want you to go through with the pregnancy anyway! I really want to help, if I can, but need a little more specifics in order to do that. Keep on posting so that we can help you through this trying and confusing time!

Hope to see you post again very soon.

Love,

Tigger

Tig,

I have thought long and hard about the X and a reconciliation and although it is someting I want very much, I don't believe that it is possible. He has made a decision to move on with his life, and because I have lied and run for so long, he does not even want to open the door. He completely hates me and can't stand to be in the same room with me.

The details of this are very complicated, but I have sincerely made the personal changes in me that were necessary heal. Now that I have, I want to get to know the X all over agagin and see where that may lead us. My desire to rebuild a relationship is in no way due to the pregnancy, but is only complicated by it.

I know in my heart that I could keep the child and raise it. That would be very difficult and in some ways very rewarding. It is because I want to try to heal the damage that adoption seems like the only course of action. I don't think that its very fair of me to ask XB to raise a child that was conceived outside of his and my relationship.

I've already caused so much pain to everyone that the last thing I want to do is inflict more.

You said that the father would have to sign the papers for me to give the child up. Do I have to declare a father on the birth certificate? Can't I just say that he is unknown?

Hi One,

I am glad you came back and decided to go forward with the pregnancy. You will make the decision that you can live with when the time is right.

In answer to your question, can you list the father as unkown? I don't know. Keep this in mind. These days adopted children when they reach a certain age, are seeking thier bio parents. Do you want him or her to see father unkown?

You said you want to rebuild with xB. I got a little confused, does he want to rebuild? Is the obstacle the baby? Would he be willing to rebuild if you kept the baby? As far as whether it is fair to him or not, he has to decide that one. Do you two have plans to marry in the future? If so, and he wants to rebuild the R, would he be willing to be the daddy to this baby? Would this another obstacle? I know, so many questions with so little answers.

I have never given up a child, so I don't know what that is like. I can only imagine it would be difficult. I know how hard it is to do the single parent thing. (That I've done).

As I saw from prior responses, there are others who have been in your shoes. They will be able to understand better than I. I can offer moral support.

Take care

OMTM,

Well, you could just put "unknown" on the BC, if it's accepted by your state. You would have to find that out first. But, since OM knows of your P, or to him, that you were(since you have told him that you went ahead w/abortion), if he ever does find out that you went through w/the pregnancy, and then gave the child up for adoption, and then decides that he wants that child, he could try to sue for custody against the adoptive parents! Just look at some of the recent cases, and how that affected the adoptive parents and the child! Having to give this child to someone after raising it for even any length of time! Does OM ever see you? Would there be a chance that he would find out that you didn't go through w/the abortion? These are things that you need to consider if you are going to give the baby up for adoption, for everyone involved!

You are definately in a difficult position here, and I wish that I could help you more. You may want to find an attorney who deals with adoptions, and see what your rights are, and those of the OM so you don't make this position you're in even worse. Maybe look under "family law" or something like that. They may also be able to help with your questions about the birth cert.

I hope that I helped.

Love,

Tigger

OMTM,

Hi! I just wanted to tell you that I was n adopted child. I am VERY happy that my biological Mother gave me a chance at a happy life. I had two wonderful parents that brought me up. I have met my brothers and sisters and my biological Mother. I told her thankyou for giving me to the most fantastic parents anyone could have. She was sooo nervous when she met me. I allayed her fears. I have NO anger or hurt for her. I knew it took a TREMENDOUS amount of selflessness on her part. If you do decide to put the child up for adoption, the prospective parents can help you financially in the pregnancy. My parents did. I hope I helped you somewhat in telling my story. Good luck!

JC,

Thanks for your words. It does help quite a bit to hear your story.

I work with a woman that is adopted and we've talked a bit about her life too. I wish I could say that I made the noble decision, but the truth is I panicked and that is the only reason that this decision could happen. I wish I could say to this child, I wanted to do the right thing. I can only say, I was trapped between a rock and a wall and had no other options.

I still hate the fact that so many people are going to be hurt by my giving birth to this child.

To everyone,

Last night I had some suicidal thoughts. I'm wondering if anyone else has gone through this during pregnancy. I am not seriously considering the notion, and generally feel upbeat. The fact that the thoughts are there really concern me. I know that in my other pregnancies I have not felt this way but I believe taht the sex of this child is female and the others were male. Does anyone know if this may be a reason for these thoughts?

Hello OMTM,

Suicidal thoughts? Sure. Sounds logical to me that you would think such things. You are in a very confusing spot right now. Its almost maddening at times, is it not? But they are passing thoughts. You have children that love you more than any other person in this world. They look up to you and trust in you to take care of them. Sometimes when our life seems so difficult it helps to remember that we are loved and needed here on this earth.

I think it says a tremendous amount that you have approached abortion and turned away. What does that say to you? It says to me that God has a plan for this baby. You may not know what it is and it may have nothing to do with you or the father but this baby is meant to be here.

I am praying for you in this situation for the wisdom to know whether this baby will be raised by you or other loving parents.

I have not been in your shoes exactly, but it is difficult to know you may be doing it all alone. Just remember you are not alone.

Love
broken_wings

I agree, this baby has a purpose.

Why do you think giving birth to this baby will cause so much hurt? If you choose to give this baby up, will your other children be hurt by this decision? I know you said to keep this baby will hurt your other children.

I'm sure giving this baby up, will be hard for you to do, but if you choose to go that route, it will be because you knew in your heart it was the right thing to do, just like if you decide to keep this baby. Follow your instincts, not your heart, not your head. Go with your gut on this one. It will be the right decision.

If you choose to keep this baby, you can ask for child support from the father. If he questions you about your claim of an abortion, tell him the truth "you changed your mind and did not have one" He has a legal obligation to provide financial support. If you are going to play you have to pay.

There are organizations all over the country who help women out in your situation.

You are not alone. You have more support than you realize.

If you have suicide thoughts again, please seek counseling. I don't know if being pregnant will do that. It might be because of your situation and you don't know what to do.

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If there is anything that September 11 taught us, it's that this is simply not the kind of world that any normal person wants to bring a child into. And you also have the difficult situation of having to try to raise the baby on your own too. I would say that the only choice you have is to abort the fetus as soon as possible. That way you can at least look at yourself in the mirror and realize that you didn't bring a child into this terrible world that exists today. Maybe someday if you get married you and your husband could adopt a child, but I don't see the point in keeping a fetus in this world.

Thanks,

Gordo

Hi OMTM,

How is it going? Please forgive me for my next statement. I don't mean to hijack your thread and address Gordo. I feel he needs some education.

Gordo- just to point out a small detail. Fetus are not born and raised. Babies are born and raised. And, she has tried going through the abortion route and could not do it. I'm guessing that it goes against her moral fiber. So, please have some respect for her value system and stop suggesting that she does something that she cannot do. She is having a hard enough time deciding if she should keep the baby or give it up for adoption.

Here is a definition of fetus taken from a medical dictionary:
Unborn offspring of a any animal after it has attained the particular form of the species , more specifically the human being, in utero. After the embryonic period, and the beginning of the development of the major strucural features, usually from the 8th week after fertilization until birth.

This says to me, that this living being, is a baby, since it has taken on the form of the species from which it developed.

Yes, Gordo, you are entitled to your opinion. Know one is denying you that. However, you do have to respect others rights to make decisions that fall in line with their value system and you should not disrespect that. Please start showing her some respect for the decision she made, and not disrespect her decision because you don't agree with it. This is her decision, not yours.

omtm,,,,, i must say that reading through this thread i have to feel you are heading in the right direction. just remember to make the right decision for YOURSELF. not anyone else. you are the one that has to look in the face in the mirror every day. this can be a very painful ordeal if you make such huge decisions for someone else.

gordo,,,, actually in the wake of 9/11 i would expect people to much more compassionate instead of cold shouldered. yes we do live in a world that is filled with some very crazy people but that doesn't mean we should all join in and become cold and callous. if that were the attitude we all should take my advice to a person that thinks this world is a terrible place to bring a child into would be a cold " go ahead and check yourself out then." instead i would suggest that you take the time to really watch the sunset tomorrow and then decide whether this world is such a crumby place.

Gordo,
Time and again, you surface to impose your beliefs on OMTM. You don't come with helpful advice, you come bearing your negativity and you try and push it onto someone who is trying their best to stay afloat mentally. I don't see how you can believe that you are helping. Contrary, you seem to wish to make her more unhappy with your "it's the end of the world as we know it" mentality.
Perhaps you see her only choice is to kill her unborn baby, but that is not her only choice. And it's just that, her choice. There are hundreds of couples out there who would love to adopt a newborn baby, if OMTM decides not to raise her baby. You speak of adoption down the road for her, why not adoption today for someone else. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. I feel that this baby has a right to be born and a right to be loved, if not by OMTM, then by someone else. With all the death and destruction of 9/11, why come here and invoke fear and push for more death?

Life is a gift and if nothing else, 9/11 is proof that we should rejoice in that gift. If we live our lives in fear that was generated after 9/11, we will live as prisioners to the sick, fanatical, criminals whose very intention was to have us make our choices around their cowardly acts of terror.

Hey gordo,
Something for you to consider: when the sperm and egg are joined, one cell is formed. That one cell contains everything that that person will ever be: the color of the eyes and hair is already determined. In that one cell, the genetic disposition of the person is already determined, and that is exactly how we all started out--including you!

omtm--the consequences of your actions are already set in motion. Suicide and murder will not do anything but hurt more people--mainly yourself. Please tell your doctor about this destructive thought pattern and just take one day at a time. Your baby needs you to be in a more healthy emotional state. I know it's hard. You can do this!

Another thing to Gordo44:

You must have never ever had an abortion yourself--if you had, you would not be so quick to tell someone else to just "abort the fetus asap"... Talk about horrible advice, sheesh! You take the cake, man! (no pun intended...)