Okay I read the principle and how to apply Plan A & Plan B.

My problem is patients and my H in limbo, he said he has a lot on his plate.

I know he's going through withdraws of the relationship he's no longer seeing EXOW.

I quess the shock of exOW getting married got the best of him.

H said he's open to alot of things, but right now he's not ready to reconcile or be in any relationships.

H does understand that if I find there's another relationship I'm filing for divorce. I will no longer take a back seat.

So while H is in that state, I was wondering do I implement a Plan A or B

I won't talk relationship talks with H. this is something I have decided. I'll be his friend without a motive.

My motives was to reconcile, that was my only concern, but now I've been told by family and friends, it's not fair for me to rush H into anything after what he just went through.

Like, I was the one that brought on his pain. This came from his choices. Now H tells me he never stop loving me. I suggested to H I would stop calling as much and continue to work on me.

I see a lot of your WS are doing there best to do the right thing. My H is still in limbo
that makes me feel up and down. I allow H to determines how I'm going to feel that day depending on what he say's to me.

I don't like a person having that kind of power over me, now I have butterflies in my stomach
this has taken it's toll.

What I find is so ironic , I was getting better having some acceptance in this whole situation then out of the blue H calls, I can tell a differnce in him H has matured a whole lot.

I just need to know what to do next.
H had OC at his place this weekend. I went through some terrible feelings. I went through jealousy anger no wanting to be part of this situation at all H doesn't know I have these feelings about the baby. I was also told not to share those thing with him.

If I shared this with him my H would sure run

<small>[ September 04, 2002, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MALC:
<strong>Okay I read the principle and how to apply Plan A & Plan B.

=^^= Good. Then do you understand them as well?

My problem is patients and my H in limbo

=^^= It is called the Fog where logic eludes him and he is confused. He may be thinking too much damage has occured to recover from. This is not true, but ironically, he is the one who needs assurance that he can be forgiven and the marriage can survive.

I know he's going through withdraws of the relationship he's no longer seeing EXOW.

=^^= This lasts about six months. Harley says it takes about that long for the WS to get over the A and the feelings assiciated with it.

H said he's open to alot of things, but right now he's not ready to reconcile or be in any relationships.

=^^= Then this is a good time to implement Plan A full force while he is feeling this way. You can draw him back with this Plan. If at the end of five or six months and there has been no improvment, then Harley suggests to go immediately into Plan B and cut off all contact to preserve what feelings you have left for your husband.

H does understand that if I find there's another relationship I'm filing for divorce. I will no longer take a back seat.

=^^= Good. And I hope you can stick to this.

So while H is in that state, I was wondering do I implement a Plan A or B

=^^= Always start with Plan A or Plan B won't work.

I won't talk relationship talks with H. this is something I have decided. I'll be his friend without a motive.

=^^= That's a big part of Plan A.

My motives was to reconcile, that was my only concern, but now I've been told by family and friends, it's not fair for me to rush H into anything after what he just went through.

=^^= Excuse me? Do your friends and family have rocks in their heads? Tell them this is between you and your husband and to stay out of it. You were the one damaged by this, not him...he was the one who did all this, not you.

Now H tells me he never stop loving me.

=^^= Just stay with Plan A and don't call him and stay focused on you and take care of you. You will become much more attreactive to your spouse if you do this and recover faster.

I see a lot of your WS are doing there best to do the right thing.

=^^= That's because many of us are two or three or four years into this and we have actually rebuilding together by now...but we have all been where you are and you are just beginning this journey. Stick with MB and practice the principles and make them a part of your life and mindset and you will be surprised at the progress you will make. The time goes by so quickly too...I can hardly believe I am approaching four years since D-Day.

My H is still in limbo that makes me feel up and down. I allow H to determines how I'm going to feel that day depending on what he say's to me.

=^^= Your behavior is typical of someone who has experienced a devastating trauma. It makes us so insecure and the loss of confidence is horrible. We tend to act like door mats and this is the worst thing we can do because it makes us unattractive to our spouses. My advice to you is to begin acting "as if". Act "as if" you have confidence in yourself and you know you are a wonderful, beautiful, intelligent and quality Babe and you will begin to feel it and believe it if you just act "as if". Act "as if" you are happy and cheerful when you are around your husband even if you feel crappy inside and bring those negative feelings here instead and do not show that to your spouse. Act "as if" you are looking forward to the future and possibilities for yourself career wise or in your social life, even if there is nothing much on the horizon...eventually your acting "as if" will become a relaity and part of you. Act "as if" you are into yourself and forcused on yourself and do all the things that make you happy...act "as if" you don't care which way this goes as long as everyone comes out a winner. When we act happy and light hearted, our spouses are drawn to us and worry that we are no longer obsessed with them...there is a pay off for them if we are groveling...it gives them all the power and unfortunately, most of them abuse this power and jerk us around a lot longer. It also feeds their ego if we are being the door mat, so don't do this. You can Plan A without being a Door Mat!

I don't like a person having that kind of power over me, now I have butterflies in my stomach
this has taken it's toll.

=^^= Then implement Plan A and take back the power and start acting "as if"...try some friendly detachment. And above all, don't call him.

What I find is so ironic , I was getting better having some acceptance in this whole situation then out of the blue H calls, I can tell a differnce in him H has matured a whole lot.

=^^= That's good he has matured some. It might make the healing process easier for the two of you if he has. Why does this hamper your "getting better"? Or accepting the situation? Is it because his maturity gives you some hope for recovery or make him more attractive to you?

I just need to know what to do next.

=^^= A detached, friendly Plan A while acting "as if".

H had OC at his place this weekend. I went through some terrible feelings. I went through jealousy anger

=^^= I completely understand. It would be way too threatening to me to have my husband have a relationship with OC without me present. I am pretty territorial and tend to be a jealous person since D-Day anyway. This contact with OC is something that can be worked on through the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) after working Plan A for a while and you are fairly comfortable of its success.

H doesn't know I have these feelings about the baby. I was also told not to share those thing with him.

=^^= Who told you that nonsense? Part of the Harley principles is the Rule of total Honesty and the Rule of Protection. You HAVE to tell him how you feel. It doesn't mean either of you have to act on anything yet, but in order to get closer, you both ned to be honest with each other and not hide feelings from each other. You can tell him what you think and how you feel and he can listen and acknowledge what you have said.

If I shared this with him my H would sure run

=^^= Well, then, let him go. If he can't take some honest, non-threatening dialogue, then he is being a big baby.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever you decide, we are here for you. Take care and God bless.

Catnip =^^-

<small>[ September 02, 2002, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Thank you so much CATNIP

I was wondering if I was going to get any help from this.

I did talk to H today, I told H. how I felt how he completely abandon me. This came up becuse H. was talking about OW and how he helped Ow. when they was together.

I told H. you helped Ow. and forgot all about me,
when I always was there for you. H was trying to justify his action. I told H. he was wrong I'm his wife.

H defends OW also. I heard from other people she was a straight out disrespectful tramp. Especially when she was intoxicated. Ow would start talking about how she like to have sex.

OW would disrespect my H. Ow also kept H from getting another job, H. wouldn't move to Ow hometown after H left Ow. OW cursed out my H. employers so they decided not to hire H after H passed all test. H. defends this tramp.

The OC my H. swears This OC looks like him. I was just told by my SIL, this child looks nothing like my H. SIL said H is in denial big time.

I'm so glad you gave me the help that I need. I will start with Plan A now this plan kinds of confuses me, it states, try to get the WS to end the affair being loving and etc. Plan B means
stop all contact SO Plan A and Plan B are simular.

Definitely no contact.

Throughout Plan A you can have contact...but, let him contact you most of the time. Don't chase, give him space.

When you do see him or speak to him, do not bring up the affair all the time. Ask him when there is a good time to discuss all the things that are upsetting you. But mostly, bring your heartache here, bring your rage here, too. By doing this, you leave it here and when you see or speak to your husband, you won't be on him about things or having screaming matches/fights and arguments.

When you do see him or speak to him, be as pleasant and loving as you can and try to focus on the here and now. Try not to obsess about the past or the affair, so when you have your time together, he will leave with loving thoughts of you and remember the warm and loving feelings.

There is a time and a place for you to vent to him and to talk about the feelings and the terrible time you are going through. And you will get the opportunity to tell him what you think and how you feel when you two have come to a point where he is open and receptive to hearing what you have to say. In the meantime, tell it here where it is safe.

I spent half of 1999 and all of 2001 raging and snarling here until I had purged myself of the venom. During this time, I was loving and kind and understanding and forgiving of my husband because I had dumped all my grief and sadness here relieving him of excessive guilt and pain. This eventually drew him back to me.

We did get to a point where he was waffling a little and I had been Plan A'ing him for almost six months and I was sick of it. So I immediately went into Plan B, left town and refused to have contact with him and he snapped out of his fog within days and we were on the road to recovery.

There were a few episodes of setbacks but largely due to his illness. It took until April 2002 before I knew for sure we were really truly in full recovery. I could never say that before then.

Anyway, this is what worked for me and how I see the Plans. Others here will have their ideas and offer other POV for you to consider.

The POJA is extremely important and something that is encouraged to begin as soon as possible. However, that ususally doesn't start until both parties have recommitted to each other and are willing to do this together.

I hope this has made it a little clearer.

Catnip =^^=

You are a blessing Catnip

Thank you, so much for your much needed advice.
I didn't mention that my husband now lives in another state. Ow was living there also but she moved back to her hometown.

H is suppose to be here for Christmas, all of his family is here except a brother that he lives with in another state.

I feel that I angered him but H didn't show it because I expressed to him how I feel but now I will do as you suggest vent here.

Once again thank you so much I want to be were you are I would very much would like your help
because to me you are the proof in the puddin.

That's what I like, to see results I will follow your lead. Before I do anything crazy if you don't mind, may I consult with you first? Since you seem like your the only one helping me.

Once again thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Another thing Catnip

I asked H was he interested in POJA, H clearly stated right now he's in no shape to agree on anything, H said it wouldn't be fair to tell me one thing and he later change his mind.

So he's not agreeing to anything until he's sure.

Then let it alone and concentrate on you.

I just read another thread that you have barely lived with this man even though you've been married five years and that he's been living with the OW almost the entire time. It makes for a sketchy history because its like the two of you haven't been together enough to bond which might make reconciliation a bit tougher for you.

I guess I don't understand why the two of you haven't lived together all this time or what caused the initial break up.

How long did the two of you know each other before you married?

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ September 03, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Hi Catnip
Sorry it took so long to answere your question.
H and I separated April of 1998 we continued to see each other but we weren't living together.

H meant Ow on a Phone sex line Ow came here to visit H of May 2000. I discovered this also in May
H and his cousin shared an apartment together at the time. 3 weeks after Ow visit she came up pregnant. Ow went back to were she was living in June of 2000

My H moved in with Ow of Aug 2 of 2000 Ow was from another state. H moved there with her.

H left Ow july of 2002 H contacted me july 16 of 2002. The problem that brought on the separation. My MIL never approved of me MIL wanted H with his older daughter's mother.

MIL gave ODM keys to her house. H was living home with mother at the time. H didn't approve there was a whole lot of frictiction. I meant H in Oct 96 we moved together in feb of 97 we married in Aug of 97

H and I was feeling guilty about living together not being married. H told me he had to choose whether to move back home, and deal with the drama, between mother and ex or be with me. H told me he loved me and wanted to be with me.

H stated if he would have moved back home he knew
our relationship wouldn't last because of interference on mothers part.

There still was a lot of confusion because his Oldest daughter wasn't allowed to come to my house.

Basically there was a lot of emotional blackmale and manipulation my H couldn't handle all the drama that was going on so he left me.

The drama continued, but we continued to see each other, I saw a lot of things that H didn't see that made me angry then came the outburst.

Now H tells me, he wish he had done things differently. H. never regrets marrying me he just wish he would have made better decisions.

Also at the time of all this my husband oldest daughter's mother, was living with her boyfriend
that created a lot of problems in there relationship also. MIL didn't care even at the sake of her son's safty. ODM is now married to this guy he hates my H. All because of the games MIL and ODM was playing.

MALC,
Did you say that your H's oldest daughter is not biological his? Can you explain?

Dawn

Hi Dawn
My apology for taking so long to answere your question.

To clear up things for you, my H was in a relationship before I meant Him. H was suppose to have fathered a child before I meant H. This child was 7 yrs old when I meant my H. I was told by several of his famiy members. My H should have gotten a blood test due to circumstances surrounding this child.

I over heard a conversation, H had with a cousin stating he wouldn't know what to do, if his oldest daughter wasn't his. So he rather not know. I believe he knows in his heart. This why his life is so chaotic.