Okay, I probably should post this in Plan A/Plan B, but I feel like ya'll understand me better since there may possibly be an OC involved in this mess. Am I understanding right that in Plan A that I try to meet H's needs without expecting anything in return?????? I get the part about working on myself, but the part about trying to fill his needs (while mine are ignored) is not setting well with me. I have been doing this and I don't see how anyone lasts for six months like this. I feel like screaming at H (especially this morning when he was whining that he didn't get SF last night when he's gotten it for the last two days), "What about me? Why should I worry about your needs when you're not concerned about mine??????" I tried to talk to him last night about me not being able to sleep without him in the bed (sorry Catnip didn't get your post until this morning) and all I got was "Okay". Forgive me, but I felt like slapping him upside the head and knocking the "fog" out of his brain. I didn't do anything; just started reading a book and biting my tongue. I mean just how far is this supposed to go? If he's not concerned with my needs, should I still try to fill his or just act "as if" I'm going on with my life???

Do I initate any conversations about us or wait for him??? And what do I do if he has no response if I do initate conversations? Help me before I start going crazy again.

Okay, now I'm going to vent......

Why do men have to be so stupid?? H is practicing in his room and invited me to come in there so I did. This song comes on this tape that starts off "Now I lay me down to cheat" and he starts laughing and telling me how funny this song is. I found not one dang thing about this song funny. It goes on to say something about "On the woman I love so dearly, If I die between these sheets, I hope she never finds out" etc etc. The last two lines are his favorite; he laughs and laughs while I struggle not to kill him. ARG!!!

On top of that I keep breaking out in an allergic rash that itches like crazy; doctor is finally going to send me to an allergist for testing. AND I BROKE A NAIL; the ones I just went and got done this weekend!!!!

Gotta go; he's playing one of my fav songs now. Guess he knows I'm irritated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wow - I can really feel your frustration. I don't think I could keep going on and acting "as if" when he blatantly throws things (like that stupid song) in your face (and then laughs about it?!).

In answer to your question, I for one would initiate conversation. One of the things I have learned in my own personal counselling sessions is that we have to be direct with our men - otherwise, they just don't seem to get it.

I would be very specific and to the point. Maybe take one issue at a time. For example, the song. I would bring it up and say something like, "you may not realize this, but that song you sang last night really touches a nerve for me. And then when you laughed about it, it makes me feel like you don't care how your affair hurt me. If I were the one who had the affair and I sang that song in your presence and then laughed about it, how do you think you would feel?"

If he doesn't respond, I'd just let the words hang there and walk away. Maybe go out for a little while. Hopefully, you will have at least provoked him to think about what he did.

Not sure how what I suggested fits in with the Harley plan(s), but common sense tells me it can't be good for you to hold all that in and act "as if" things are all hunky-dory. (Not to imply that's what Catnip was suggesting because I know it wasn't.) But I think there are times when we need to stand up for ourselves and (in my book) when he was singing that song and laughing about it was definately one of those times.

We can always go back and apologize if we stand up for ourselves and realize we were in the wrong. But its much more difficult to go back and try to stand up for ourselves after the fact.

Just my humble opinion...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dumplin:
[QB]Am I understanding right that in Plan A that I try to meet H's needs without expecting anything in return??????

=^^= Oh no...you can have all kinds of expectations. You can ask him to meet specifics needs and tell him how you feel and what you want. But unfortunately, many Waywards during those first few months are still so wrapped up into themselves that their ability to meet our needs often falls short. I ended up frustrated and angry and just couldn't understand why he wasn't doing handstands to fix the mess and grovel at my feet for forgiveness. It's a strange irony that the innocent party is often the only person committed to restoring the marriage while the person responsible for the damage is ambivalent.

I get the part about working on myself, but the part about trying to fill his needs (while mine are ignored) is not setting well with me. I have been doing this and I don't see how anyone lasts for six months like this.

=^^= It doesn't sit well with any of us. I protested after a couple months and raged and lovebusted all over the place and didn't care I was doing it. It felt good to snarl at my husband and say all kinds of mean things to him after what he did to me. I was so deeply hurt and so filled with rage, I finally just couldn't help myself. In my case, it snapped my husband out of his indifference for a while and we were temporarily on the recovery road until he stopped focusing on me and us again and became all sef absorbed again. I put up with it for another couple months until I had the final meltdown. We've had a really tough, tough recovery, so you can't go by me. His affair was in late 1998 and we just finally got on track this last spring. The intial six months were the hardest but then we had a lot of extenuating circumstances since then.

but I felt like slapping him upside the head and knocking the "fog" out of his brain. I didn't do anything;

=^^= Good for you...that took a lot of self control...I actually did slap my husband across the face. I hadn't found MB yet and had been dealing with all this on my own and had no other outlet for my grief.

If he's not concerned with my needs, should I still try to fill his or just act "as if" I'm going on with my life???

=^^= Try to do both...I know that sounds impossible like you are expected to find a good balance of giving while taking care of yourself, but at this point, just do what ever it is you need to do for yourself. I wish some others would jump in on this and advise you, because I am running out of ideas.

Do I initate any conversations about us or wait for him??? And what do I do if he has no response if I do initate conversations?

=^^= Absolutely initiate conversations about the two of you. You need to know where he is and let him know where you are at with all this. You can do this without LB's and disrespectful judgments. If he has no response yet, at least you have told him how you feel and what you want and your responsibility ends with that. What he does with that information is pretty much up to him. He will know how you feel...I just hope he understands the impact of his actions on you and begins to focus on how he can help the marriage heal.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dumplin:
<strong>This song comes on this tape that starts off "Now I lay me down to cheat" and he starts laughing and telling me how funny this song is.

=^^= He must not realize how deeply damaging his affair was to your marriage, and if he does understand what he has done, he must be making light of it in a feeble attempt to minimize its importance...or he is just an insensitive clod. Only you can be the judge of that.

If I die between these sheets, I hope she never finds out" etc etc. The last two lines are his favorite; he laughs and laughs

=^^= Insensitive clod.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry you are going through this. It is a terrible time in a marriage. I guess you have to decide how badly you want him and your marriage and make a stand and create some boundaries, like insisting that he have absolutely NO CONTACT whatsoever with OW in person, on the phone, in e-mails... nothing. That's where recovery begins because nothing can begin if there is any contact because if there is contact, they stay in the fog.

Maybe I gave you the impression we are supposed to be these giving morons who take all kinds of humiliating emotional abuse from our Waywards beacause they are so fragile and screwed up. No, no, no....

My idea of Plan A is to be kind and loving, not screaming or raging, expressing needs and esires and then letting it go and focus on yourself. Acting "as if" is very powerful stuff because if you can accomplish acting as if you are happy, confident and at peace, you are programming yourself and you can only benefit from that kind of positive reinforcement. When I acted this way, I felt better about me. At first I felt like a fraud, but soon I actually felt like this was real and I was able to restore myself a little to where I was before all this happened. Acting "as if" is for you, not for him.

Good luck

Catnip =^^=

I don't have a lot of time right now; heading to pharmacy for some more medicine. I just wanted to thank you both for you replies---I read them really quickly, but will go back shortly and reread them a couple of times to digest them.

THANKS!!!!

Okay, now I have time to respond. And I'm finally not itching like crazy so maybe I can think too, lol.

I did stand up for myself without an angry outburst or screaming and yelling. At first when song came on and I heard first two lines, H saw my facial expression and made some off-handed comment about the song being funny, but he would turn it off if I hated it. I told him, "No, I'd like to hear it so I can see what you're thinking cause I sure as h#ll haven't figured it out yet." That stumped him for a moment or two. Once the song got going and he started in again laughing and saying how funny it was I told him that I didn't find it funny in the slightest bit and the first two lines (Here I lay me down to cheat, On the woman I so dearly love) were incongruent and didn't make any sense. "If he loves her so dearly, then why would he be laying himself down to cheat?" H then fast-forwarded the song and said he didn't mean to start anything by asking me back there and that song coming on. I told him he might want to think about what he's doing before he does it then. I believe I may have struck a chord with him. Of course, then kids starting fighting about something so I had to go figure out what they were doing--then I posted the vent. He started playing a song that he knows I love (not country, lol) and I went back there. Concerning the song, I think he really wants to just forget about it and put it in the past, but he doesn't realize that I can't just do that.

H then started singing a song that he was writing as he went along (does this alot) that was talking about "She said she was tired of this and to go to h#ll but I told her I was already there" or something like that. I started laughing and everytime he would say "She said Go to h3ll, I would yell out kiss my @ss" while laughing. He laughed and said to quit that I was messing him up and I laughed and told him that should be the next line, it just fit. I said I was helping him write the song and I was being creative. We both laughed over that one. I think he was trying to make a point with his song (like he normally does--displaying feelings with his music instead of talking about it) like I was when I asked him if the guy loved his wife so much why was he cheating on her.

Okay, I know this is long but I'm not done yet. LOL. So bear with me.

We then went in living room because it was bedtime for kids and they can't sleep if he's playing guitar and we're both singing, lol. Shortly after I told H that I was headed to bed. He was still asking for SF (whining about yesterday) and I told him with a wink that I would be in the bed if he needed anything (4 year old was still up) and he just raised his eyebrows at me and grinned. He came to the bed a little while later after 4 year old went to sleep. I was half asleep and started scratching his head (used to do this all the time--he's spoiled). This lead to SF and he ended up sleeping in our bed all night last night cuddled up next to me. I do believe he probably called OW before coming to bed though so that throws a damper on some of it.

Okay, I'm done now, lol. Any comments?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dumplin:
[QB]This lead to SF and he ended up sleeping in our bed all night last night cuddled up next to me. I do believe he probably called OW before coming to bed though so that throws a damper on some of it.QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you think that? Do you beleive he is still in contact with her?

You handled yourself very well, D. Go with it as long as you can stand it. You'll know when it is time to shift gears.

Catnip =^^=

Yes, I believe he's still in contact with her-in fact I can almost say that I know for certain he's still in contact. The reason I think that he talked to her last night before coming to bed is because of the length of time it took him to come to bed after everyone had went to sleep; I'm a light sleeper so I woke up when he came in the room-I was asleep until then. I don't know for sure if he did or not, but I haven't said anything to him about it. We just don't mention her at all around here. He won't bring it up and I don't want to start anything right now. I'm going to Plan A for a little while longer before I "push" anything.

<small>[ September 05, 2002, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: dumplin ]</small>

This whole post pisses me off.

I must say, I do not think my H had sex anymore with OW after D day. But she had some kind of hold on him-and he allowed her to email him, call him, etc. at work when she wanted to. When I first found this site, within days of D day, I immediately asked him not to have any contact with her-no email, no phone, etc.

It took him over a year to do that. MOst recently, he cut out contact with her---after we started counseling with Steve Harley. I asked Steve why now my H decided to honor a request I asked of him over a year ago-Steve had no explanation-it just was time for my H to do this.

I think also, doing the exercise where by STeve asked him to tell me all about why he had A , how it started, what it was about him and his weaknesses that participated in this, and then, list how what he did affect me,our life, and have me fill in where he missed, made a big impact on him. It took him a long time to do the exercise, preparing for it, before sharing it to me. It made him cognizant of the damage his weakness wrought on us and me.

ASk your H to do the same-- He seems rather unfeeling toward your feelings.

UW,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try it but think I may wait a couple of weeks though. Give H some time to see that I'm not going to switch to the "evil wife" again by blowing up at him. I started another thread posting our BIG relationship talk we had last night...please read it and let me know what you think.

With love,