Polland,

I normally don't post about things that make me angry that I see on this baord. However, things can change and they did when I saw your post. This Board as the others said is for people to work on their marriages. We have BS,WS,and yes EX-OW that we all talk to but the key to that is (EX-OW) not current. I don't know about the other members here and how they feel about there situations but I am working on my marriage and praying to God very day to help rebuild after my H A. People like you that come around just make us take a step backwards. We are a loving group and everyone of us help each other. You my friend don't seem like you want help. So I think it would probably be better if you found another group or go back to GloryB. I personally don't want your kind here. I want supportive people that feel my pain andcurrent OW such as your self only make things worse. I will pray for you to do what is right.

DBH

Polland,

I've been through alot with my ex-OM/MM and my H. My life has been a rollercoaster for many years. As you know, I have a son with my ex-MM. I have a long history with him. I never realized how ordinary my story was until I found this site and realized my MM and myself are just human with all the faults our species is capable of. Our A was not unique at all. I am finally breaking out of the old cycles and I see daybreak for the first time in years. Some days it feels like this story will never end. But I have faith that it will.
I know where you are right now. I've been there and I understand more than you know. Getting out and moving on is not an easy accomplishment. You take 2 steps forward and 3 backward. I know how these affairs change you and destroy the very person you once were. Re-inventing your life can be done and you can rebuild it, coming out stronger, for yourself and for your unborn child. You can leave him behind. If I can, so can you. I was the one who told him I couldn't live without him. Well, guess what, I am. And I am happier.
I do believe you when you say that you tried to get out. I know how it feels to be stuck between wanting it over and staying with him. Its like any other dysfunctional relationship.
I'd like to help you if you'll let me. This board is not the best place for that to happen. I presume you are not married. Is that correct? If you would like to talk with me, let me know where I can reach you.

CM

<small>[ September 08, 2002, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

Well, it seems Polland aka ScrammbledEggd is feeling ashamed of her situation. She deleted the posts on gloryb where she brags about MM sleeping over.

I don't think she'll be back here to post. I think our message was loud and clear!

It's best that way.
Z.

Z,
I feel sorry for her because she reminds me of myself. I don't read the gloryb site and have no idea what she posted over there. I know you all don't have sympathy for her and I don't blame you at all. I only remember all too well how much everone involved in an affair is a victim in one way or another.
It so sad, us WS destroy so many people in our paths and at least for myself, it isn't until I stepped back, way back, that I could see how destructive I had been. And how sick. God, how sick I was. I think Polland is in the same boat and I wish I could help her see that there is a way out of it.
Calling his wife is not it. The post she wrote to you isn't either. She has to look inside of herself, not to MM, and stop igoring the voice of her soul.

Anyway, ZB, I started to post to your thread but I felt my words were sounding empty. I hope that you are doing okay and that things are coming together with your H. I know how confusing real "goodbyes" can be, because we try and hold on to a memory, what was back then, its like thunder chasing the wind. We think we need to revisit our decision not because we want to undo it, but because with any ending, there are always unanswered questions. If that is the case with your H, I hope he realizes what he is doing and gets his head on strait. There are most likely no answers that will put this chapter of his life to rest for good, sometimes only time can do that. He may not have believed that and that is why he met her to talk. Sometimes us WS think the op has some magical answer for us, as our questions are more about us than about he relationship. Some of us learn the hard way. Maybe you H is thick headed like me, I"m one of those.
CM

CMiranda,

I'm glad that you have found your way to a better place. You sound grounded now.

"I only remember all too well how much everyone involved in an affair is a victim in one way or another."

Don't know if this the wrong place to ask this. But how one earth can the WS and the OP be victims? They are consenting adults involved in an affair of their own choosing. Seems to me that the only victim is the BS. Polland, and other WS/OP, will not find their way out of the affair until they give up the victim status they claim and take responsibility for their affair and their own life.

The words we choose to use are very important. The drive people's percepts and actions. By calling the WS & OP victims we make their predicament to not be of their doing and to not be in their control. If Polland were to see that she is where she is today because it's where she wants to be. That as much as she complains it's her choice. And that she has total power to get out of it because she is anything but a victim, then she will be able to move on. From the little I've heard here, it seems that she is really quite proud of herself and quite content to be THE WINNER. I feel badly for her. Karma has a way of biting people in the a$$.

Zorweb, I think we (xOW) are many times victims of our own selves...

CMiranda, I thought it was very touching the way you reached out to Polland. Sooner or later she's going to have to face reality. Hopefully, sooner, for her baby's sake as well as everyone else involved.

Right on zorweb!

WS and OP are not "victims" of dysfunctional relationships, aka affairs.... Nope. Victim is definitely not the word. Not unless we (xOPs) are victims of our own stupidity? OH I know, victims of pissing our lives away??? Victims of bad choices and decisions that are willfully made? Victims of trampling marriage vows and others' feelings and innocent lives for selfish gain? Victim of pleasure that lasts only for a season?

Well, guess what? Seasons change... Reality sets in. The sooner we face it, the better off the real victims come out of it. The true victims being the BS's and the OC's...

Hi BTDT,

Love ya. Have been wondering how you're doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I do believe from my own experience thus far, that everyone involved in the circle of an affair is a victim in one form or another.
I don't know Polland's whole story, she offered a view from here and that is all I know. But it's all I need to know.
I know that OP lie, lie and lie to their lover and to their spouses. I know that children who are born to the couple and existing children suffer, for what they have no control over.
I know that BS are lied to and are faced with having their lives torn upside down over decisions by their WS that they have no control over.
I know that WS get into A's for alot of reasons. I got into mine because I was unhappy. Ultimately, my happiness was my own responsibility. At the time, I looked outside of myself for that. I felt trapped in my own unhappiness. I was a victim of an alcoholic H. H got clean and still, I did nothing out of my fear and dependence on OM. I was afraid to change my life. I felt trapped. When I tried in a feable sort of way to get away from exom, he worked hard to keep me with him. I chose to stay, yes, that is not what I feel makes me a victim of the affair. I did make the choice to stay. I feel that I was a victim before I got into it. That was what opened my heart and mind to letting OM in. Eventually, the relationship becomes one that traps us somehow. Maybe love, or addiction, or dependence on someone outside ourselves for happiness, or whatever it is we are looking for.

Being the WS is very emotional, our lives are mixed with great happpiness and sadness alike.
We are victims of ourselves, we are victims of bad relationships, or victims of poor decisions. We are victims of our OP's. Relationships can be a big manipulation by everyone. THey are all strategically trying to get what they want.
That is essentially how I feel about the victim issue. I have no doubt in my heart that each of us are victims. In different ways, to different degrees, absolutely. Some knowing some not. But still victims nonetheless.
I don't feel that a victim has to be unaware of a situation, or lacking choices in it, to be a victim. The nature of the victimization is not the same of course, yet it still exists.
I don't mean to sound like a martyr, I hope I don't sound that way at all. I am only saying how I feel and by no means want to sound like I'm comparing the BS pain to anyone elses. I only know that everyone suffers. From what I know in my own life and from what I read here, it is all so, so tragic. People don't realize what will happen to them if they even look twice at a married person. If I could have only known. At the time, I was too messed up to see it but experience sure taught me. Like I said, I tend to learn the hard way.

CMiranda,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are victims of ourselves, we are victims of bad relationships, or victims of poor decisions. We are victims of our OP's. Relationships can be a big manipulation by everyone. THey are all strategically trying to get what they want.
I have no doubt in my heart that each of us are victims. In different ways, to different degrees, absolutely. Some knowing some not. But still victims nonetheless.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you. I know I learned (also the hard way) to handle things differently with my husband when I feel like the victim of his neglect. Instead of allowing myself to become vulnerable and a "sitting duck" for someone to "prey" on, I've learned to speak up and do what I can to remedy the situation - productively - and most importantly, together.

I don't mean to imply that I didn't have choices, because I did, and I chose wrongly. But I have learned from those wrong choices and will not repeat that destructive behavior ever again. And if I can help someone else along the way, or even offer a sympathetic ear, then I'm grateful that some good can come of it.

CM,

My dear CM,

you wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I could help her see that there is a way out of it.
Calling his wife is not it. The post she wrote to you isn't either. She has to look inside of herself, not to MM, and stop igoring the voice of her soul.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish you could help her too. The new you could do wonders to help open her eyes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, ZB, I started to post to your thread but I felt my words were sounding empty. I hope that you are doing okay and that things are coming together with your H. I know how confusing real "goodbyes" can be, because we try and hold on to a memory, what was back then, its like thunder chasing the wind. We think we need to revisit our decision not because we want to undo it, but because with any ending, there are always unanswered questions. If that is the case with your H, I hope he realizes what he is doing and gets his head on strait. There are most likely no answers that will put this chapter of his life to rest for good, sometimes only time can do that. He may not have believed that and that is why he met her to talk. Sometimes us WS think the op has some magical answer for us, as our questions are more about us than about he relationship. Some of us learn the hard way. Maybe you H is thick headed like me, I"m one of those. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you hit the nail on the head. My gut tells me that his issues are just what you described. Either the visit was for closure or to test himself or just being Mr. Nice guy. Either way, I think he realizes there is no in between when it comes to OW. It's black and white in my book and if he wants to be involved in this story we just won't be reading that chapter ever again.

I'm still just sitting here reading your post over and over again and I just can't believe you wrote this. I'm not trying to sound like a bytch, but the CM that used to post would have never so gently given her version of what the WS was feeling. I'm grinning from ear to ear right now. I wish you could see me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm so happy that you have become one of us. Truthful but treading lightly amongst the wounded BS that dominate this board. Can I give you a big fat cyber hug? {{{{{{{{{{{{ CM }}}}}}}}}}}}}

Z.

Yes, everybody is a victim at one time or another in our lives, but when we switch over into perpetrator mode, there is no excuse. There just isn't. Maybe the word victim is a trigger with me. Heck, a murderer could be a victim of an abusive childhood--does that make him any less of a perpetrator? NOPE! So stop trying to call everyone a victim already. I just don't buy it. I'm sorry...

It doesn't mean I don't have compassion for situations we fall into through our own poor choices and confusion, or lack of wisdom, not at all. But as I have said before, sugarcoating the truth is like labeling the bottle of poison as honey to make it go down smoother. Right and wrong is black and white. This victim label allows excuses for any type of behavior. At least that's what it sounds like to me...

Just because we are victims doesn't mean we have to keep a victim mentality, we can take control of our lives and decisions. We can choose to get into affairs or not. We can choose to protect ourselves from the bad behavior of others or not. We can choose to blame or face truth about ourselves. After all, that is the only thing we can fully control--ourselves and our own lives and our own perspectives.

HEY Z--all is well!!! <<thumb wagging>>

What happens to us might mess us up, but we don't have to stay that way. If we stay messed up, it's our choice. Nobody does that to us. Life choices are exactly just that. WE get to choose!

Hi everyone

You Know BTDT
You do have a point. Me going through the trama that I've gone through in my marriage, has taught me a very valuable lesson.

It has taught me to respect all relationship whether dateing, married, or whatever the case may be. I give them all respect even if someone just started out getting acquainted I have to respect that also.

Just because we've go through certain situation in life, doesn't give us the right to destoy others.
We don't have to become what we hate so much.

Once again we are banding together like the Villagers out of Frankenstein, brandishing our torches, clubs and pitchforks, climbing the hill in unison, advancing on the clueless and confused OW, shouting and scaring the hell out of this woman.

Polland, we hold every OW's feet to the fire when they first come to our site. We, especially I, are very territorial and extremely protective of any new Betrayeds who come here who are deeply, deeply wounded and can't stomach the presence of an OW. You'll have to understand this if you want to post here.

There apparantly has developed a kind of "hazing" process here for any OW brave or stupid enough to post here. Once you "get it", everyone relaxes and then acceptance comes. But, fair warning, there is and will be no acceptance until you have completely eliminated the MM from your life. There is too much identification with that kind of pain and you wil be used as a proxy for those who are still experiencing fresh grief, rage and pain. Just fair warning.

Cmiranda has offered to talk to you privately and is completely empathetic to your situation and is totally understanding of the stage you are presently in. She has recently had enormous break throughs and her growth is something amazing to behold. She has also become a trusted and respected bonafide member of this site and we love her. She has developed amazing clarity and you could benefit greatly by her guidance through your situation. I hope you will contact her and accept her offer of help. You need this support and guidance.

Any OW who comes to this site who has a desire to change their lives, who has empathy and compassion for the Betrayed, and acknowledges and accepts responsibility for their mistakes and is humble, is welcome here if they have entirely severed all contact with the MM. There are a lot of former OW's who are respected members of our little group.

There is a protocol here and anyone that comes here is expected to abide by the spoken and unspoken rules in order coexist here.

Good luck and God bless.

Catnip =^^=

Well, I diasagree, surprise, surprise! I've been a victim too many times becaue I allowed other people to victimize me. And who's more of a victim than a person trying to make a relationship come together by thenselves. I know what the anger feels like and now I know that at some point, the anger becomes a crutch. I have blamed the othe other woman in the past and made no secret of showing it! But Iw as wrong! Never once did I blame him and while I maybe I still don't like her, how could I, I had to get past that and all the things that were done and move on! My hatred and anger were destroying me! I was turning into an ugly person that I had not been! I grew up in the church and I had to call on theosr Christian principles when things hit the fan! I 'm not going to waste my precious energy over things I can't change

Just sitting here crying so many different views. I'm feeling so much anger so much pain. You talk about victims. Who's the victim who's not the victim. You know I was never an OW. By choice I refused an A. I made the chioce not to become or set myself up to be a vicitim. There for I declined. I agree with Z they were concenting adults. Both had a choice.

When you choose to continue an A you are not a victim. You are indeed a consenting A. You knew the risk. A victim is usally the person that is unaware of the A. That person has no defense and is left unprotected in many ways until the A is uncovered.Thank You but No Thanks. Prehaps I'm still very much in my bitter stage and until work on my self brings me to another level I feel that no family should have to go though so much pain, stress and unhappiness because of the sposes and their OW/MM and OC <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> SELFISHNESS!

Hi - I'll introduce myself. I'm Joshmom. xOW, mom of an OC, moderator of another board that shall remain nameless. I posted on another thread earlier, but it was deleted for some reason. I have never posted here before - like "my" board - this is YOUR safe haven and I respect that totally. I am trying to stop the board wars on my end, but am pleading with you here to do the same. We are all (99% of us) in the same boat that we're trying to heal, rebuild our lives, and go on. The back and forth of it all is not condusive to that at all. It just feeds the fires on both sides. I know that it is just a small fraction of people that post there and are disrespectful, and the same goes for some that post here. I've "lurked" over here for a long time - and feel as though I know a lot of you. It inflames me just as much you when someone comes crashing in and starts the crap. Please know that I'm working on it on my end - but need cooperation from here, too. Have a good day.

Hello there members,

This one just caught my eye so I thought I'd show myself present and watching.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JoshMom:
<strong>Hi - I'll introduce myself. I'm Joshmom. xOW, mom of an OC, moderator of another board that shall remain nameless. I posted on another thread earlier, but it was deleted for some reason. I have never posted here before - like "my" board - this is YOUR safe haven and I respect that totally. I am trying to stop the board wars on my end, but am pleading with you here to do the same. We are all (99% of us) in the same boat that we're trying to heal, rebuild our lives, and go on. The back and forth of it all is not condusive to that at all. It just feeds the fires on both sides. I know that it is just a small fraction of people that post there and are disrespectful, and the same goes for some that post here. I've "lurked" over here for a long time - and feel as though I know a lot of you. It inflames me just as much you when someone comes crashing in and starts the crap. Please know that I'm working on it on my end - but need cooperation from here, too. Have a good day.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone's behaving right? Making me proud, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless you and yours,

<small>[ September 13, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Xarelel ]</small>