I'm still waiting for answers on my other post (not complaining just explaining), but I'm about to burst. So I decided to start a new thread so as not to confuse myself or anyone else. I'm very irritated and H is gone so I can be in b*tch mode if I want!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Background info - I don't think I mentioned this on a post at the time, but about a week or two after H came home from road trip in August I was getting in his tool box for something. I noticed that the damn envelope that he kept necklace and zippo that she gave him in and the other envelopes with letters and pictures from her were all scattered (normally this is in a neat pile in the corner of the drawer). This is the stuff he told me he mailed back to her last year when he broke it off with her; busted him the same day (duh, hide something in a tool box so when I look for a hammer I see it--smart, real smart). Well I picked up the envelope that held the necklace and the zippo in it and saw that the necklace was missing. I searched the drawer and all the other damn envelopes and couldn't find the necklace. I was still in my snooping things at this time and went through H's pants' pockets looking for it. I never found it and told H (when he woke up) that the necklace was missing and the story about how I noticed it was gone. H said he didn't know where it had went and he hadn't even been in the tool box since he got home. H asked if I looked in his pants to see if it was there and I told him yes that I had. He said, "Well, was it there?" I said, No, but didn't know if he had taken it out for some reason and if he didn't take it who did (I sure as hell didn't touch the thing). H said it was funny that it was his necklace and I was more concerned that it was gone after saying that I wanted it gone than he was. He said, "Do I look upset or worried about it? No, and you shouldn't be either since you wanted rid of it." Part of me said good he doesn't care that it's gone, that's a good sign. Other part of me said he's not worried because he knows exactly where it is. I just let it drop since I had no proof either way; did check Drupy's room since he has had a problem with taking things that weren't his and hiding them in his room. It wasn't in there and believe me I tore that room apart looking for it.

Today (of all days) - H is getting ready to leave to go to show that is in OW's state and I was handling it pretty well--no LB's and acting "as if" with H. H asked me if I would do him a favor and wash some of his clothes (undies, lol) for him. I told him, "Yeah" with a question in my voice. H said that I had told him that I wanted him to start washing his own clothes. "Well the way I look at it is if it's in the dirty clothes it's fair game. If your clothes are in the dirty clothes, then they'll get washed with everything else. I will not go around picking up after you; I am not a maid. I have no problem washing them if they're in the basket though." H said, "Oh okay, thanks."

Fast forward about five minutes - H starts saying that someone had been in his band room/bedroom because a set list (list of songs the band plays for those non-musician peoples out there) that he had in a binder was missing (Why in the hell would someone want to steal a set list anyway?) I told him that I hadn't been in there and the kids hadn't been in there that I knew of - H is constantly "misplacing" things and then saying someone took it. I told him that I even shut the door if it's open and he's gone so I don't have the temptation of going in there and don't have to walk by the door and see the other phone line cause I'm trying to give him his space. I left the room to get kids ready to go to MIL's for a little while--Goose wanted to go see his Nana, lol. About ten minutes later, H yells out to me and I go back to the "forbidden" room (lol, b*tchy ain't I?). Now he can't find one of his books (one's a address book and the other is a dateminder--both I provided to him, if I may go that far). "I'm about to get hostile; I guess I'm going to have to put a padlock on the door so no one can get into my [censored] while I'm not here," was his comment. I told him that I had no idea where that book was--I haven't seen either of them. Well, he started looking and I started to help him. I saw him pull one of the books out of the pocket on his suitcase and thought well maybe the other book is under the clothes instead of in that pocket like he thought. I pulled back the clothes and what do I see----THAT DAMN ZIPPO----is laying in the bottom of his suitcase. I could honestly feel my heart turn into a rock. I stood up and turned to leave the room. H said he still couldn't find his book. I looked at him from the doorway and said, "Well I don't know where you book is and I just saw something that really irritated me so I'm going in here. H said, "You want to know why that's in there?" I just looked at him. H went on to say he put it in there so it didn't get thrown away (?) like his necklace did. I told him that I didn't throw his necklace away; I have no idea what happened to his necklace. During this time, he found his damn book under the suitcase where he had evidently put it. I turned and walked out of the room. H said as I was walking down the hall, "It's not going with me, is it?" I just said no I guess not and kept walking. Was at the point where I didn't trust myself to speak. I came in and told Drupy to hurry up and get dressed so I could take Goose to Nana's and H came through and said, "You don't have to be so mad all the time." I informed him that it was the third time I had told Drupy to get dressed and he was still sitting there in his underwear watching cartoons. Told H to be careful and then shut the door.

I'm so damn mad!!!! I think I need to sit down a write another letter to H explaining all of this today and the post from yesterday (telling him that A is second only to losing a child). For one thing, if I don't get this out before he gets home I may explode when he walks in the door. For another, I don't trust myself to talk about this. I went and looked back in the tool box and everything that was in there is gone. I guess he cares more about it than he was letting on---still don't know for sure what happened to the necklace. Could someone give me some input on what to put in the letter? I'm going to try to write one, but I'm still so mad that I don't know how it will turn out. I have to let him know how this is all affecting me---I will Plan A, but only for so long and will only put up with so much crap. Also on the clothes washing, I don't want anything to do with his stuff right now so should I wash them (because of what I said earlier) or should I just set them in a separate pile and let him wash them himself? Of course, now I'm mad, he's headed down there and this is not good in any way......if she shows up (H says she won't, I say she will) I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ September 14, 2002, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: dumplin ]</small>

Dumplin,
Stay strong! Sorry no advice for you! But wanted to say it is usually slow here on the weekends!

I think my recovery is going slower then most!

Dawn

Hey Dump

Sorry you are feeling so down, but it's good that you vent here like everyone has suggested to me.

You said you are writting a letter, and you want to know what to say, well say what's in your heart
say what you are feeling.

You know I visited another site, that was suggested MB to stay away from, What I found so ironic is these women don't get the MM they go after. It's like once these men find out these women are pregnant, and the BS finds out these ow are paregnant in some cases, the men leave them high and dry.

From what I see these women go after CS. I have not seen where DNA test are done. Some of these women are indeed trapping these men without DNA test.

It is disgusting, what I read and these women don't have a clue, why they are in the situation they are in. Left alone and there children abandon because of the choices they make.

There take on this is 99% of WS goes back home to there wives. I find these H also get a kick out of our jealousy towards xow. H make stories up about xow, to get a reaction from us. When in fact some of these women don't want nothing to do with these WS. The lies WS feed these people by telling them they are going to leave there BS.

I have to look at my situation my H lived with xxow for 1yr and a half. Xow actually thought My H was going to divorce me, when she realized he wasn't she tormented H he left.

I'm saying this to say BS the ball is in our court whether we know it or not.

Dawn,

Thanks for the support.

MALC,

My B and SIL and their little baby boy (5 1/2 months) came to visit so I haven't the opportunity to start on the letter. You said to make it from the heart, but right now my heart feels like a hard lump in my chest as far as H is concerned. I don't know where to start or what to say.

Oh yeah, B told me that one of the other band wive's said that they didn't know if they were going to stay over or not now since H had said something about worrying about running out of gas. So now I don't know if he'll be coming in tonight (early morning) or tomorrow afternoon. H mentioned something about all the gas stations being closed on the way home, but had told me they were still planning on coming home tonight and not staying. If he stays, I don't know how I'll be when he does get home.

Any suggestions on what to write in the letter?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MALC:
[QB]What I found so ironic is these women don't get the MM they go after. It's like once these men find out these women are pregnant, and the BS finds out these ow are pregnant in some cases, the men leave them high and dry.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's like Aversion Therapy. The shock that the fun and games have become some grotesque nightmare when a pregnancy occurs, the Wayward realizes he has sat down to a banquet of consequences... throws cold water of reality on the affair, big time. Suddenly, the Ow isn't so tantalizing or desirable. Waywards who end up with an OC situation are catapulted out of The Fog like they were shot out of a cannon in most situations.

Have you noticed on GQ that OP's have a lot longer affair longevity and the Waywards stay in the affairs and in The Fog a lot longer if there is NO OC or consequences to snap them back into reality? There is nothing horrendous for them to deal with...they are having fun and enjoying themselves and have no reason to end the affair.

In some perverted way, this situation brings the marriage back faster. 'MOST' marriages here are in some form of recovery.

Catnip =^^=

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dumplin:
[QB]since H had said something about worrying about running out of gas. So now I don't know if he'll be coming in tonight (early morning) or tomorrow afternoon. H mentioned something about all the gas stations being closed on the way home, but had told me they were still planning on coming home tonight and not staying.QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope he comes home tonight...this sounds like one of "those" excuses...I see a red flag. Be aware..

Catnip =^^=

I'm just seeing red period. I'm still so upset about that stupid freaking lighter that I could scream. Not for sure right now if it would be better if H just didn't come back. Yeah, it would hurt but then I would at least have a damn answer. I'm sorry I'm still trying to write this letter in a non LB way without angry outbursts (one of my biggest problems when it comes to OW) and I'm not getting anywhere with it. I think I'm just going to give up on the letter. I want H to know how I felt and I don't feel that I could at this point sit down and rationally talk to him. Hell right this minute, I don't even want to see him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dumplin:
[QB]I noticed that the damn envelope that he kept necklace and zippo that she gave him in and the other envelopes with letters and pictures from her were all scattered (normally this is in a neat pile in the corner of the drawer).

=^^= Unacceptable! He is a Married Man with a WIFE and CHILDREN....he has no business keeping any items from another woman in his car, truck, van, gee-tar case, sock drawer, or anywhere in the house or in his possession! What is he thinking??? The only place this "neat pile" should be kept is in the trash container under the sink under the coffee grounds and eggshells.

H said it was funny that it was his necklace and I was more concerned that it was gone after saying that I wanted it gone than he was. He said, "Do I look upset or worried about it? No, and you shouldn't be either since you wanted rid of it."

=^^= Isn't it cute how he continues to do linguistic gymnastics to throw you off the scent?
He still didn't answer your question without surrounding it with a lot deterents. He answered your question with a question...and that's not playing fair. He OWES you big time just for the mere fact you are still letting him live in the house with you...that is quite a privelege after what he has done to you! The LEAST he can do is talk to you honestly and answer your questions without being cute...or sly.

H is getting ready to leave to go to show that is in OW's state and I was handling it pretty well--no LB's and acting "as if" with H.

=^^= Good for you!!!!

H asked me if I would do him a favor and wash some of his clothes
I will not go around picking up after you; I am not a maid. I have no problem washing them if they're in the basket though." H said, "Oh okay, thanks."

=^^= This is good. It sounds as if you have created some boundaries so he doesn't trample all over you...and it sounds like you have a lot of self respect...this is excellent. It's nice of you to do this for him. It doesn't hurt to do these things for them once in a while out of love and kindness, but not to the point of being doormat or slave.

I pulled back the clothes and what do I see----THAT DAMN ZIPPO----is laying in the bottom of his suitcase. H went on to say he put it in there so it didn't get thrown away (?) like his necklace did.

=^^= Why would he care if it got thrown away??? It's a damn zippo, for crying out loud. Not the crown jewels. And it is from the OW? Then, he should get rid of it...throw it away. He has no business keeping a lighter from the OW and having it in your home.

H said as I was walking down the hall, "It's not going with me, is it?" I just said no I guess not and kept walking.

=^^= I am confused. Was he talking about the Zippo again and did you take it from him?

I think I need to sit down a write another letter to H explaining all of this today
if I don't get this out before he gets home I may explode when he walks in the door. For another, I don't trust myself to talk about this. Could someone give me some input on what to put in the letter? I'm going to try to write one, but I'm still so mad that I don't know how it will turn out.

=^^= Say it all...tell him everything. Be angry, be upset...let it all out on paper, then wait a day and reread it, then edit it and then give him the revised copy. Or not. Give him the emotional unedited version but be prepared for a whatever may come. I know this is totally against MB, but I wrote a couple really angry letters to my husband and his response was if I had thrown a bucket of water on him and he was shocked back into reality. It worked for me but I can't recommend it because it depends on the person. My husband was really ready to hear me and I was in way too much pain to care of the consequences...I had to get it ALL out, LB's and all. It was cleansing for me and allowed me to get back to my sweet self with him. I was also at a plce where I did not care what happened. It was good for him because he has always had better success with understanding what I am thinking and feeling through the power of the printed word rather than verbally. He sometimes tunes me out when I am speaking to him but reading what I write kind of rivets him...there is an impact.

MB says to write a letter without disrespectful judgments and explaining your feelings of how he has hurt you by using a lot of "when I know you have been in touch with the OW, I feel so abandoned, so rejected and insecure it tears my heart out" kind of statement. A lot of "I feel, I want, I need" and no "you did this and that, you're a cad and a jerk, a liar and a skunk"...even if its true, and it usually is...hahaha. At this point, it's a horse a piece. It's hard for me to be respectful when I am being disrespected. Besides, I am kind of cranky by nature and am hard pressed to be nice to someone who is annihilating me. But, my final good bye letter to him was the letter that changed everything between us and started us on the road to recovery. It was kind and heart felt and exposed my deep feelings for him and our marriage and that was the one that paved the way for changes.

if she shows up (H says she won't, I say she will)

=^^= I'd show up too, but then, that's me. I'd be pushing for the truth.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
Unacceptable! He is a Married Man with a WIFE and CHILDREN....he has no business keeping any items from another woman in his car, truck, van, gee-tar case, sock drawer, or anywhere in the house or in his possession! What is he thinking??? The only place this "neat pile" should be kept is in the trash container under the sink under the coffee grounds and eggshells.

**I agree that's where it should have been. H was supposed to have mailed it back to her, but lied and didn't. I then told him that I wanted it burned. H's excuse on this was that I have a hope chest that has letters and pictures from high school in it. I told him that the letters from past boyfriends had all been removed and besides they were people that I met before I knew him; I sure as hell wasn't with them when I was married to him like his/her crap. H said yeah you're right and that's about all that happened. The crap has been in there for the past year and all I hear is "When I become certain of our relationship, then it will be gone." WHATEVER!!!

Isn't it cute how he continues to do linguistic gymnastics to throw you off the scent?
He still didn't answer your question without surrounding it with a lot deterents. He answered your question with a question...and that's not playing fair. He OWES you big time just for the mere fact you are still letting him live in the house with you...that is quite a privelege after what he has done to you! The LEAST he can do is talk to you honestly and answer your questions without being cute...or sly.

**Sorry, H did tell me that he hadn't touched the necklace and didn't know where it was. He said if I didn't take it then one of the kids must have got in there and took it. I just said, "Well I hope if it was Drupy that he didn't take the time to read her letters." This was before my revamped Plan A and I was PO'ed big time. A part of me still thinks that H took it and did something with it; I don't know. I know I can't dwell on it though because if I do I might actually slap him upside his head (and hope the fog clears up) when he gets home. I don't like this side of me--but I've always been an easy-going person until you [censored] with me. It's probably for the best that this OW lives out of state and I've never seen her (except in those pictures) because I'm not sure what I would have done.

Why would he care if it got thrown away??? It's a damn zippo, for crying out loud. Not the crown jewels. And it is from the OW? Then, he should get rid of it...throw it away. He has no business keeping a lighter from the OW and having it in your home.

**Because it's his--that's the answer I get. Someone please explain that one to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

"H said as I was walking down the hall, "It's not going with me, is it?" I just said no I guess not and kept walking." I am confused. Was he talking about the Zippo again and did you take it from him?

**Yes, I was referring to the damn lighter, lol. No, I did not take it from him. I walked away from the room because I knew if I didn't that I would blow up in his face. I was so angry at that moment that if I hadn't been working so hard on MB and posting in here, I probably would have taken that lighter without saying a word and then flung it across the room at his head. I don't consider what I did as an LB though because I just told him I saw something that irritated me and I was going in here (living room); there were no angry outbursts, not this time. And I'm proud of that. You wouldn't consider that a LB, would you? I just stated what I was feeling (no emotions because when I get really really mad, I go into a monotone voice with no emotions showing) and walked away. Now I have probably beat my poor keyboard to death today and I know that right now I'm building a wall just to hold my composure. What I would like to do is drive down there and kick both of their asses (sorry, redneck's coming out, lol)!!!

Say it all...tell him everything. Be angry, be upset...let it all out on paper, then wait a day and reread it, then edit it and then give him the revised copy. Or not. Give him the emotional unedited version but be prepared for a whatever may come. I know this is totally against MB, but I wrote a couple really angry letters to my husband and his response was if I had thrown a bucket of water on him and he was shocked back into reality. It worked for me but I can't recommend it because it depends on the person.

**I still haven't even started writing this letter; I don't know if I'm going to. I'm beginning to think that instead of a letter just writing a few sentences. For example, "I feel very hurt and angry that you value the things from OW enough to worry about them being thrown away." Next sentence, next line I would use the been in touch sentence below. ETC. I think that this may be the only way that I can write this without disrespectful judgements or angry outbursts. What I would like to write, arg, is a hell of a lot different. May do nothing because I'm sure he's expecting another relationship talk or letter when he gets home. Thinking that maybe if I just go on and act "as if" H may think I'm pulling away (which I may be) and will get his head out of his rear. Which do you think???? I'm really needing help on this one--BIG TIME. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

MB says to write a letter without disrespectful judgments and explaining your feelings of how he has hurt you by using a lot of "when I know you have been in touch with the OW, I feel so abandoned, so rejected and insecure it tears my heart out" kind of statement. A lot of "I feel, I want, I need" and no "you did this and that, you're a cad and a jerk, a liar and a skunk"...even if its true, and it usually is...hahaha. At this point, it's a horse a piece. It's hard for me to be respectful when I am being disrespected.

**I will start all my sentences in this way and make them as short as possible. Ha, for me that usually is a problem, but I'm to the point where I don't feel like I should have to tell him anymore---he should be getting it by now.

I'd show up too, but then, that's me. I'd be pushing for the truth.

**The old me probably would have, but that never helped anyway so why drive that far for him or her????? Also, don't feel like going to jail tonight, lol, and the state I'm in right now that's where I would probably end up. I'm so mad that my heart is actually pounding; I can feel it (of course the cigarettes and iced tea probably aren't helping much). I'm so tired of pushing for the truth and getting hurt when I find it. I've snooped my last snoop when I recorded his phone call. I'm also sick of being lied to and finding out the truth later. I've gotten to the point where I'm doing my best to improve me and he can either shape up or ship out. I haven't given it a deadline or anything; considered New Years (ya know starting new) but I also know that Plan A is recommended for six months. I guess I will just have to see how I feel.
<strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

All,

H did come home last night. I'm not sure when because I was so tired (had very little sleep the night before) that I just looked at him and then went back to sleep. I know it was still dark outside, lol.

Thanks for letting me vent last night! I feel much better now. I actually began feeling better last night and went to bed around 3:30 and just konked out. I didn't write a letter and don't think I'm going to. I believe H knew how upset I was and I know he expects a big relationship talk or letter sometime today so I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to act "as if" and confuse him a little. I know that when he came in (was sleeping on couch) he asked me two or three times if I was okay. LOL, of course when he talked to me I just looked at him for about five seconds and then mumbled some answer that made no sense---too tired. I would think one thing and a completely irrelavent sentence would come out of my mouth. I was too tired to care or laugh so I just shook my head and rolled over.

H asked me this morning (damn phone woke everyone up-someone kept calling, hanging up and calling back) if he could lay down on the couch with me. He used my lovely sounding nickname of Dumpy. I told him I guessed he could if he wanted but he would have to turn the air down because I was hot. LOL, he just looked at me, went and turned the air down and then came and laid beside me. I laid there for a couple of minutes and then got up.

I think it's sort of funny the way he keeps looking at me. He's confused because I haven't blown up yet, I was here when he got home, the doors weren't locked and his stuff wasn't in the yard when he came home (have never actually put his stuff in yard but have threatened before) so I know he is wondering what is going on. I'm enjoying this myself. Seeing the confusion and the wondering in his eyes is better than the defensiveness and yelling. I may be getting the hang of this, after all.

Once again, thanks for letting me vent.

He's on the run...and finding you far more interesting than any OW.

You are handling this very well.

Catnip =^^=