H and I were talking this evening about band (that's a whole different story) matters--going to start towards the end of conversation. H set himself up and I couldn't help myself. This is not verbatim, but close (parantheses are my editorials).

After all those conversations about me treating him like a child......think "Jaws" theme.

H-It's nice to be getting along so well. It feels good to say that.

D-Yeah, it does. I'd like to say that I'm proud of myself...

H-Oh no (making a face)

D-(ignoring the rude interruption)...for the way I handled myself yesterday. I didn't scream, rant, rave or throw a fit. I don't even think I raised my voice.

H-No, you didn't (raise your voice). You handled yourself well. (Sits for a minute.) Oh about that lighter. It's me making a statement.

D-A statement of what?

H-Well, you know when you're in school and you have a really good friend (Theme song gets louder.) that someone is constantly telling you not to talk to and it makes you want to talk to them even more....(Crunch, you're had. Jaws just bit off your head, lol.)

D-(don't think I laughed out loud, not sure--looked him dead in the eyes with a huge grin though) Yeah, it's called a rebellious child. (Pause for effect) Or a rebellious teenager. (LOL, gotcha! Hey, I didn't choose the example, he did.)

H-(smiling, embarassed and ducking his head) Never mind.

(Okay let's get serious here now.)

D-If you are trying to make a statement, it worked. It was a big slap in the face.

H-I didn't mean it to be that.

D-It was. I am hurt and angry because it feels like you value the things from her so much that you felt the need to re-hide them so they wouldn't get thrown away.

H-It's not that.

D-Well that's how it felt.

H-I'll tell you this though, if what happened with the necklace didn't happen I would have done it because I didn't take it.

D-I didn't either.

H-I didn't say that you did. But it's still gone.

Quiet for a second or two.

D-By the way, where are the letters and the pictures?

H-(looks at D for a moment like he's confused) Oh I took them and put them somewhere else too.

D-(letting the non-answer slide) When you, It seems (stumbling here a little, trying to remember how I'm supposed to start this sentence). I feel hurt because it seems to me that by doing that you are showing that you value the things from her so much that you don't want to lose them.

H-I want you to realize that I'm making a statement by living here too.

D-Okay. I'm making a statement too.

H-How?

D-I don't want you to take this the wrong way. (Pause for a second and taking a deep breath.) I'm making a statement by letting you live here.

H-I know that. I see that too.

End of conversation.

When I laid down, I got to thinking about this conversation and laughing. Then I sobered up when I thought about what H had started to say. And then the doubts starting coming in....is he always going to have contact with her just because he's rebelling and I don't want him to have contact?????? Now that I've gotten over the high of "getting" H and him basically admitting that he's acting like a child, what he said is really bothering me. I wish that I would have said something then though because I can't live with him having contact (especially when it is done in spite) and I want that crap gone from my house.

Go ahead and have yourself a good laugh; I did. After you get done laughing, let me know what you think about the rebelling comment.

Side note When I got home from turtle tank trip, H asked why I'm printing out MB.

D-Well that's the post I was telling you I wanted you to read (first two posts from "Update for everyone-long).

H-I read it. I also read some more posts on MB.

D-Oh, okay. (Not trying to make a big deal, but my mind was screaming, "Yes".)

After a little while, we were trying to get new tank (bigger) cleaned and set up for kids' turtle

D-Were you reading mine or others as well?

H-Mostly yours.

D-Were they new or old posts? (Getting a little worried here over the lighter post, gulp.)

H-Mostly new ones.

D-Well what did you think--do you have any comments?

H-We'll talk about that later. (Okay, the phrasing worried me (that is the key word here), but his tone of voice was calm??)

Was never brought back up again and H didn't really seem mad (kicking @ss comments) so I don't know. I think I may broach the subject tomorrow night if the timing's right. Sort of glad though that he took enough interest and time to read the printed one and then the extra step to come online and read some posts himself (without me asking him to). I've decided that I'm going to take this as a good sign and just go with it. Maybe he'll keep reading and eventually post himself (sigh, heaven, road to recovery).

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: dumplin ]</small>

The contraband in your house has to go.

It's time for him to make a decision of whether he wants his wife, his home, his family and a life with you. He has to understand that marriage is an exclusive commitment and recall his vows of promising you that he would keep only unto you, forsaking ALL others for as long as you both shall live.

It's time for him to learn and understand the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Harley principles and Rules of Protection and Honesty. It's time to implement No Contact with the OW.

I think the vows are pretty clear and unmistakeable. Childish and 'rebellious' games are for adolescents and not for a married man with children. I'm glad he was chagrined when it was made obvious that behavior like that was a joke and made him look like a fool. Everyone desires to be respected more than loved, even if they do not conscieously know it, and realizing that they are acting the fool and loosing credibility and the respect of others will be vey, very important to him some day.

I think of famous people I admire most in the entertainment industry and evey single one of them are devoted family men and held in high esteem among their peers...Paul Newman, Mel Gibson, Tom Hanks to name a few. These are men who do not cheat on their wives, are devoted and committed family men. In the music industry, there is Paul McCartney, Ricky Samboro (sp?) and Tim McGraw to name a few. They don't have the need to have inconsequential people who mean nothing to them fawn all over them to boost their egos. They don't have misplaced loyalties. They know it is NOT 'cool' to cheat and whore around...it makes you look like a [censored].

Your attitude and acting 'as if' is becoming a reality and its making your spouse uncomfortable because he is expecting predictable behavior from you. Since you are tackling this situation with maturity and calm, its making you more interesting and desireable, and his respect for you is increasing. You're becoming a very desirable commodity and I see a shift in power.

Above all, continue maintaining your dignity...for yourself more than for any other reason.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:
[QB]The contraband in your house has to go.

It's time for him to make a decision of whether he wants his wife, his home, his family and a life with you. He has to understand that marriage is an exclusive commitment and recall his vows of promising you that he would keep only unto you, forsaking ALL others for as long as you both shall live.

**I totally agree. The question is how do I accomplish this when he (acting like teenager) wants to hold onto it tighter just because I'm telling him that I want it gone?????

It's time for him to learn and understand the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Harley principles and Rules of Protection and Honesty. It's time to implement No Contact with the OW.

**Same response as above.

Your attitude and acting 'as if' is becoming a reality and its making your spouse uncomfortable because he is expecting predictable behavior from you. Since you are tackling this situation with maturity and calm, its making you more interesting and desireable, and his respect for you is increasing. You're becoming a very desirable commodity and I see a shift in power.

Above all, continue maintaining your dignity...for yourself more than for any other reason.

**Thank you for the advice. I'm trying to find the happy medium here. Maintaining my dignity, continuing Plan A, trying to convey what I need and how I feel to H, not be a doormat, being patient (not binging H upside the head with a bat to knock some sense into him), etc. I know you all know how I feel. I'm just struggling to find that middle ground.
[QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I guess I would Plan B if it got to the point where I couldn't stand the stupid behavior and childish reactions anymore.

Catnip =^^=

Thanks Catnip.

I really need all of you to pray for me to have the strength and the patience to continue in Plan A. Since the other night when H said this, I am beginning to get down and getting weary. I've just recently re-vamped my Plan A since I have trouble with angry outbursts and I know I need to give it more time.

The comments he made the other night though are getting me down because I'm still wondering if he's just doing this to spite me (or to hold onto her as a backup plan).

Also, last night H worked on my Jeep for me (since he doesn't like others doing it-makes him look bad), got mad and started yelling and cussing again. He started yelling at me because of the stupid radiator cap; he couldn't get it on all the way, asked me to help, and instead of just trying to loosen it, I started to take it off so I could put it back on (since I know very little about working on vehicles, I didn't know what I was doing--thought maybe it was cross-threaded like a mayonnaise jar does sometimes). I said I was going in the house. H could tell I was mad and about to cry and told me to stay out there and talk to him. H asked why I was so upset and I told him that even after me telling him why I asked others to work on Jeep (his getting mad and yelling) that he did it again. H said well I have the right to get mad. I said that he didn't have to take it out on me because he was mad at the radiator cap. He said he knew it was childish and stupid to get mad at a radiator cap but he was frustrated and when I went to take the cap off so I could put it back on I insulted him (like I was saying he didn't know what he was doing) and he blew up. I said well it's okay to be frustrated, but I would rather work like a team or stay in the house if you're going to take it out on me. I also used an example of if I threw a fit every night while cooking--screaming and cussing at the microwave to hurry up and jumped him if he came in there to help--while his mother was happy to do it, let him come in the kitchen and even showed him how he could help without yelling, where would he want to eat dinner at? H said he understood and he was sorry. This is a very short condensed version of the story, but you get the point.

We were headed in the house at the end of this conversation and H asked if I would go up to the store and get some Cokes if he gave me the money. I said Okay--thinking I'd do anything I could to get out of this house right now. I let the tears fall as I went to the store (using machine outside-store was closed). H asked me why I had been crying when I got back. My thought was, "Why should I even waste my breath telling you because it won't matter anyway." so I just told him "Because I was upset."

I was very tired (still am) and went to sleep on the couch around 9:30. H woke me up asking for his pillow around 1 this morning. He made some comment about I obviously didn't want his p#nis around so he would go sleep in his bed (had been trying to initate SF all night after this episode with Jeep and I had told him repeatedly that I didn't feel like it). I told H that he was going to sleep in his bed and not with me because he knew he wasn't going to get any. I don't know why but he decided he was going to sleep on the couch with me because of that comment. When he laid down, he said that he was glad that we were friends (?) and I said I was glad we were friends too. I was too tired to ask him what he meant by that.

I don't know. I guess I'm just getting down. The comments are building up and I'm getting very frustrated. He seems like he wants to work on the little things and wants us to get along, but doesn't want to change any of the big issues (like contact and her gifts in my house). Just pray for me to have strength and patience please.

Thanks all!

I'm having a very bad night. Got home and H was mad and started in on me. No matter what I do it will never be good enough. I'm so tired of worrying about he feels and what he thinks; tired of changing myself (bending over backwards) when he gets to continue contact and do whatever and use the excuse of "You did this" and "You did that". I'm so tired of it all. Yeah, I did it and yeah I've screwed up, but I'm trying to change myself while he's sitting there demanding this and that. I'm trying to meet his needs while he is meeting his own and not worrying about mine. He says he does, but it doesn't show. H says I can't see the forest for the trees. My response, "No I can't because there's one big tree in my way."

"What all did you do while you were in Malvern that night you stayed at your mother's?" Well I've already told him and I told him that I had already told him. I also asked him if I had asked him everything he did while he was in her state, did I ask if she showed up, did I ask if he got to see the baby, have I asked if he's even talked to her. "No" was his response. Duh, I'm not the one talking to someone I've had an affair with; he is. So why do I feel persecuted? H says he's the persecuted one----I give up. He's also throwing it in my face that I can come in here and vent and he has no where to vent. I have another e-mail account (at work) and he doesn't. I told him to go ahead and get one, go in the chat rooms--whatever he wanted to do. Well he doesn't want them, but it's not fair that I have them. Okay, so what the hell does that mean? I don't think he'll ever be happy; no matter what I do. I think he'll continue to find anything he can to gripe about. I don't even want to write anymore. I'm going to go play a game and try to forget this whole damn thing.

Dumplin,

I am so sorry for the pain that I hear in your post! I wish that I had some awesome advice to give to you to make everything better! Just know that I am praying for you, that you have the strength to do what you need to do! Just because you are in Plan A doesn't mean that you have now become a doormat! I hope that someone comes along to offer you more than I can right now!

Love,

Tigger

Thanks Tigger. I'm still upset, but I'm just not talking to H. May be childish, but I'd rather be childish right now than to be yelling at him. He's acting like everything's fine now. Asking why I'm "sulking". I just told him I was upset and went on watching my show. I just don't know anymore. Maybe I'll feel better in the morning. H says that I don't see him trying and I said it's hard for me to see him trying when the biggest problem I have is still ongoing. Well I'm not having sex with her so that should alleviate some of it----ARG!!!! I'll have to post more later because I'm still irritated and my mind is flying in 15 different directions at once.

Dumplin -
I'm sorry you're having a rough night. I don't know why they have to be such butts! I think that somehow they still think that they can blame us for their actions. I'll add you to my prayer list tonight.

Vee

Thank you Vee.

I figured out what H's problem is, but I can't come up with any solution that he will agree to. Maybe you guys can help me come up with some kind of solution. H says it's unfair that I have no restrictions on me for what I've done but he has restrictions on him for what he's done.

Okay, I take that as he either wants me to have restrictions or he wants his gone (no private e-mail, no chat rooms, snooping through his stuff-I have stopped the last one). I told H that those were the only solutions I could come up with and H won't agree to either because he said neither one will work. H feels that it is very unfair though and I have no clue what other solutions to offer (not at least right now in my upset state). Can you all help me out on this?????

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: dumplin ]</small>

(Sigh) Oh, dumpling...I feel for you, Honey. You are married to such a child.

Your husband is a colossol game player and is draining the spirit right out of you. I see you heading to a strong Plan B, too.

You can't go on listening to his assinine banter without loosing your mind. My stomach tightens up just reading the inane things he says to you and the nah-nah, nah-nah nah stuff. I am stunned with disbelief he says the things he does. It sounds like you are dealing with a petulant pre-teen rather than a married man with a wife and children.

Lord, spare us from these men children.

My Grandfather used to tell me there was no juvenile delinquency until after the second World War. He said men had pride in being real men early on ...like fourteen...and what a sad commentary on today's society that men are just arrested adolescents that are into immediate gratification at all costs to the expense of their wives and children, that families can no longer depend on their husbands much anymore.

You need to do something to shake things up or continue like this as long as you are willing to put up with this ridiculous behavior. A strong Plan B wil protect whatever love you have left for your hsuband and give you the freedom to focus on yourself. The payoff is that you'll get healthy and his grossly immature behavior will no longer ruin or rule your days and nights and destroy your peace of mind.

You really canot go on like this any longer. Having any contact whatsoever with OW is completely unacceptable.

You have some decisions and choices to make, dumpling...pray to God for guidance. I'll keep you in my prayers, too.

Catnip =^^=

Well Catnip, according to H, I'm only telling my side of the story. I'm not telling everyone what I am doing wrong/did wrong so he said he's going to start coming in here and posting so everyone will have both sides of the story. We'll see though.

I told him any restrictions that I had put on him (no private e-mail or chat) were gone and he could do what he wanted with it. He's an adult and he can make his own decisions; it's up to me to decide if I will deal with them or not. He knows what I'm willing to put up with and what I'm not. He said he's not going to do it, but the restrictions were coming from him (so leave me alone about it) and not me. Also said that he's going to get rid of her stuff and that contact will end (not immediate, but it will end). Concerning her stuff, I told him that I didn't want it just gone from our house I wanted it gone period---burned or trashed. I added that I wanted to be present since last time he told me that he had gotten rid of it he lied to me. He said fine. I told him that I wouldn't live like this forever, but would give him time to get things together. I don't know; guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm sure I lb'd along the way in the conversation; tried at times not to and other times didn't really care if I did. I'm sure H will let all of you know though. I've had about 2 hours of sleep, I have a new job (been here since last Monday) and my boss went into the hospital yesterday so there's only me here, and I'm waiting for someone from the postage machine place to show up and show me how to add money to the machine. Great day in my neighborhood, huh???? I'll talk to you all later.

Oops, double posted somehow. Servers keep crashing.

<small>[ September 18, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: dumplin ]</small>

Dumplin,
I am all for him posting! If he wants to come and vent and tell his side then let him do it.

Dawn

I told him that I would be happy for him to post. I said that I can really only post from my point of view anyway and if he wanted to tell his side for him to do it.

Dumplin -
Tell him to come on & post! When I started posting here, my H resented it big time. He went to another board similar to this & posted his own version of what happened & how he felt. I wish now that I had encouraged him to post here so that we would both know what the other felt. To this day he thinks of this site as my 'bash the H' site. He actually saw me post last week & said - "Do you ever have anything good to say about me?" Actually I do when you act like a grown up!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway - you might go reverse pyschology on him & ask him what bothers him so much about your behavior & see if it has any merits. You could both not do pivate chats at all if it makes him feel better. What I find is when I agree to inflict the same restriction on myself, my H backs off. It usually means something else totally. Just what - I have no idea!

I've been asking him to post for a while now. I hope he does even if it does start out as a rebuttal to everything I say. It's a start at least.

I don't do chat room at all myself anymore; they make me sick. I got sick of not being able to go in and just talk to people; everything was always about sex and I even tried going into a Women Only room. That was a joke. I told him that even though I do come in here; whatever I post is always here for anyone to read. He knows my username; lol, it's obvious since it's my nickname from him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H said he doesn't want to chat or have private e-mail; it just irritated him that he felt he couldn't because I said he couldn't. Did that sentence make sense?

Gotta go for now. Will be on later....

Dumplin -
Oh that sentence made plenty of sense!! ROTFL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> When I TRIED to explain to my H that he couldn't have contact with the OW during her pg, he flipped! I wonder if maybe he felt like he knew that but because *I* said it, it just made it worse. He says I'm *forcing* him to make decisions. HA! You don't say?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I believe he's just prolonging this whole ordeal by trying to bury his head in the sand. Ok - I'm off on my own tangent not thinking about you!

At any rate - men seem to have this thing where they just don't like being told what to do. Good luck with all of this!

Vee