Last night my H came home. He's on one of those - I have so much going on trips. We talked for a very long time, but I am confused as all get out. My H keeps saying that he never had any intentions of leaving me - BUT here's what I don't understand, he keeps saying that when I threw him out, he thought that it was over. I have tried, and tried until I'm blue in the face to explain to him that I wanted him to come home BEFORE I even found out I was pregnant in mid-Feb. His response - "well, don't you expect me to be a little bit clouded? I just thought it was because you were pregnant". Dang it! How many times do I have to say No that's not the case! AGHH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now he thinks that it is perfectly ok to continue contact with the OW to check up on her during her pregnancy. I'm sorry - but is this part of the fog? WHen I asked him - if I was pregnant by another man would you expect him to come & see about me? His typical idiot response - yep. It's not my child. What is that?! I told him that doesn't make sense because he would be the one more involved in the child's life. I just don't get it. Somehow, he thinks he can have both me & show the OW he's sorry by being there for her. I'm sorry - but I don't care how many times she might have heard from him we were spliting up, without a divorce decree I would be leary.

Through the night, my H couldn't sleep - or rather it was like demons kept bothering him in his sleep. This morning I told him he is probably trying to cross too many bridges at once & he should start with stuff that is immediate. So we got into this conversation about whether or not he wants to remain married. He keeps saying I'm not hearing him and that he has no intentions of leaving. I told him I wanted the marriage, but he needs to decide if this is what he wants. He keeps saying he's not sure if I can handle it. Well - I'm not sure either, but I'm willing to try. What is wrong with that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I told him that if this wasn't what he wanted I needed to know so I can start making arrangements. That sent him clean over the edge. As a matter of fact he started crying. I don't know if it's the guilt over the situation or what? He keeps saying he's concerned about providing for the children & I don't doubt that he will, but I just want a firm committment. If he wants a marraige - fine - let's make it work, if not, please don't waste my time. Am I wrong for that? I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick here. I don't know if he's going through a wake up call or if he somehow thinks he can ease his guilt by trying to support the OW. I'm also pissed because even when he found out she was pregnant he told her he'd be there for her. I just don't get it. I can't deal with all the conflicting issues he's having right now. I wish someone would please tell me what's the best thing to do right now!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Vee:
<strong>I am confused as all get out. My H keeps saying that he never had any intentions of leaving me - BUT here's what I don't understand, he keeps saying that when I threw him out, he thought that it was over.

=^^= That is the same excuse my husband used to justify what he did. He kept saying, "Well, I thought you wanted out...I thought it was all over." I went crazy listening to this until I figured out why this was so aggravating. I finally said to him, "What is so stunning to me is that you have made up this rationalization as an excuse to be bad, and then are too cowardly to admit that you just want what you want. Instead, you turn it around on me. I never said I wanted out, and even if I had, do I and does our marriage mean so little to you that you wouldn't make an effort to fix things and just let me walk away?" I swear, those early months in the first year were the most horrendous of any I've ever lived through.

I have tried to explain to him that I wanted him to come home BEFORE I even found out I was pregnant in mid-Feb. His response - "well, don't you expect me to be a little bit clouded? I just thought it was because you were pregnant".

=^^= He sounds cocky and arrogant like he is calling the shots...is he?

Now he thinks that it is perfectly ok to continue contact with the OW to check up on her during her pregnancy. I'm sorry - but is this part of the fog?

=^^= Oh, yes, indeed. This is misguided loyalty and misplaced guilt at its worst. ALL his attention should be to you right now, no one else, forssaking all others, now and forever. As long as he puts you second, third or last, there will be no healing for either of you. There has to be NO CONTACT in order to heal a marriage. The Fog clouds ratiojnal thinking, Vee.

WHen I asked him - if I was pregnant by another man would you expect him to come & see about me? His typical idiot response - yep. It's not my child. What is that?!

=^^= It's not true. He THINKS or SAYS that would be his reaction, but in reality, his behavior would be far, far from that cavalier attitude he is displaying now. He has no idea what it would be like to be on the receiving end of this nightmare.

Somehow, he thinks he can have both me & show the OW he's sorry by being there for her.

=^^= The marriage will not survive as long as there is contact with the OW.

So we got into this conversation about whether or not he wants to remain married. He keeps saying I'm not hearing him and that he has no intentions of leaving. I told him I wanted the marriage, but he needs to decide if this is what he wants. He keeps saying he's not sure if I can handle it.

=^^= Handle what? What does he mean? Continued contact with the OW? If so, then no, you can't, I can't, and none of the others here would be able to handle contact with the OW.

I told him that if this wasn't what he wanted I needed to know so I can start making arrangements. That sent him clean over the edge. As a matter of fact he started crying.

=^^= Why not call Steve Harley and the two of you get on a conference call with him. K says he works magic during the first couple sessions and it is all MB based, of course, and it might jump start this marriage and get your husband to start thinking clearly. I guess some pretty incredible insight is available just on the other end of the phone.

If he wants a marraige - fine - let's make it work, if not, please don't waste my time. Am I wrong for that?

=^^= No, you sound reasonable to me. I would want to kow one way or the other because I would want to move on as quickly as possible, too, if I were in that situation.

I'm also pissed because even when he found out she was pregnant he told her he'd be there for her. I just don't get it. I can't deal with all the conflicting issues he's having right now. I wish someone would please tell me what's the best thing to do right now!!!

=^^= They all say that at first because they think that's what they are supposed to say. It keeps the OW at bay and it is their way of protecting us after the fact. Lame but true in many cases. Don't know if it applies to your husband or not, but he has to get permission from Harley or Retrouvaille ( www.retrouvaille.org ) that it is OK to sever all contact, realize his only obligaiton to her is CS and focus on the marriage and help you heal and as a couple recommit yourselves.

You two are so young and have already had so much infidelity in your marriage. I'll pray for the two of you and ask God to guide your hearts and restore your marriage.

All the best

Catnip =^^=
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Catnip -
I've been thinking a lot about what you said. I just can't for the life of me figure why after all this pain, I still want my H. Wouldn't I be better off without him - that's what I wonder sometimes. But then I get all teary thinking about how we used to be & how it could have been. *Sigh* I would have never thought I would have been going thru all of this.

=^^= He sounds cocky and arrogant like he is calling the shots...is he?

I have really been thinking about this. I think maybe I am letting him call the shots in a way. I think that maybe I let him get away with too much so maybe he thinks that by pacifying me for a while he's able to work out his own issues. After our talk Monday, he hasn't even bothered to call. This bugs the crap out of me! I mean really - what if I was having complications, he'd never even know. I also think that just me loving him alone gives him the upper hand? Does that sound crazy? Anyway - I'm talking to my therapist Friday & in the meantime, I plan on trying to protect myself financially before I give him my Plan B letter.

Thank you for your help Catnip.

Vee

Vee

Sometimes I get in trouble when I say this, but I really think it is true and a big part of why we think we want our husbands so badly...it's that we want to win.

When we are feeling unloved and rejected, the person who is rejecting us becomes much more desireable because we can't stand the thought of them not wanting us or loving us, especially after all we have been through together. We don't want it all to be in vain and we want them to be worthy of our love. We want to know that we didn't waste our time loving them, living with them, building a life with them just to have them ditch us for someone else that WE KNOW they will become tired of very, very shortly. We want to be more to them than we are and are completely shocked and caught off guard that they could do something like this to us...that we what we 'thought' we had was just an illusion.

We want to minimize the damage before it gets too bad and before it gets to a point of no return. So, we pull out all the stops and Plan A our hearts out and are terribly disappointed and devastated if it doesn't draw them back to us. When we implement Plan B, we take a huge risk, but very often Plan B not only protects what love we have left for our spouses, it gives them an idea what life is like without us.

To me, it is a sad, sad game when a Wayward Spouse abuses the power they know they have. They refuse love and empathy when we need it the most and make no effort to reconcile while we do all the work. It defies logic and it seems so unfair.

Being pregnant and alone without your husband must make it doubly difficult. This is the time he should be with you, involved with you and your pregnancy and cherishing this special time together. Not having his support when you need it most is a terrible thing, Vee. I am so sorry you have to endure this difficulty alone.

I know not hearing from your hsuband and not having his support makes you want him all the more. You probably can't understand how he can be away from you right now and think it is you...but, it's not you. It's him. He is deep in this Fog of delusion and selfishness. He probably blames you when in reality, it is a distorted reality where black is white and right is left or wrong.

Plan B sometimes brings these confused and deluded Waywards back into the real world, but sometimes the problem when they come back is that they are afraid that they have done too much damage and that they will never be forgiven so why bother. Meanwhile, in Plan B, you are working on you and taking care of you.

I'm glad you spoke to Dr. Harley and that he was able to provide some excellent advice and comfort. I truly hope you will do exactly as Harley says and get strong. Immediately implement Plan B and surround yourself with people that love you and care for you. Keep busy with outside interests and post here and pray all the time.

I know you think you are madly and deeply in love with your husband, and you probably are, even though he has been cruel, selfish and completely unlovable, but I think many of us are in love with an "ideal" and a desire to be desired. In a sense, this is our distorted reality.

It's tough to do, but checking our real motives and assessing what is good for us and what is toxic to us honestly allows us to move forward even if they stay stuck in Fogville. Often, when we start to move on and start feeling good about ourselves and become more confident and less clingy, we become more attractive and desireable to them, and then the worm turns...

If he is staying away and not calling, he might just be waiting to hear from you, get the ego rush and be in control of you and the situation. now is the time to put an end to this.

Don't call him, don't see him, don't contact him and let him wonder "What's up with this? She isn't calling...I wonder what's going on." But, son't concern yourslef with what he is thinking or going through because right now you have to take the focus off of him and concentrate on yourself and your needs.

Follow Harley's advice and get things moving with Plan B, one way or the other, you win either way.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ September 18, 2002, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Thanks again. What you said rings true in more ways than one. Yes we love them in spite of everything that they do. I just need to figure out how to quit obsessing about all of this.

My main worry about being separated & pregnant has been what do I do when I go into labor. I asked my mom last night if she wouldn't mind staying with me the week before I'm due. Lord knows I don't want to deal with her in the delivery room - I had only wanted my H there, but now it seems as if that won't come to pass. My mom is quite melodramatic & will worry the fire out of the nurses on the floor. But I feel a lot better knowing that she'll be there with me during my last week. This has been very trying & each day I do find myself a little bit better by realizing that I have to do this. If not, when & if he does decide to committ to our marriage, I'll be a better person & not be so bitter. If I can cry now alone, then I won't have to make it worse by crying when he gets back. I'm off to get some lunch & wait for a return call from my attorney. I need to get started on all my legal paperwork to shift the financial burdens I've carried for my H back on him.

I know this is mean - but I swear - as soon as the OW has to deal with all his financial difficulties she'll be running out the door! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I haven't met a single one of his OW's yet that can deal with that. Especially since I know that the OW is trying to finish school, lives with her mom & only works part-time.

Thanks again for your words Catnip!

Vee *now taking a vow to devote the rest of this week & all others to me!!!*