Firstly, a hello. I am new to this forum and have been reading some of the messages here and feel as though I may benefit from some of your advice.

I am in a situation that feels hopeless at times, and I’m not sure of the best way to deal with it. I apologise now for the length of this letter, but there is a lot to say.

My Story :- My and my wife have been together for about 6 years, all was fine up until about 2 years ago when things started to go wrong……I started to become possessive and jealous, was never violent with this, I just got a bit moody. Well during this time my wife befriended a man who is 18 years her senior (she is 38 he is 56) she started spending a lot of time with him, sometimes 12 hours a day, then spending the night at his house etc. During this time she denied anything was going on, and that they were just good friends, the trouble was the more time she spent with him, the more I tried to put a stop to it.

Anyway, eventually she had a breakdown and ended up in hospital. While in hospital her man friend and her mum conspired to get her away from me and into a relationship with her man friend ( the reasons being her mum was jealous of what her daughter had, and man friend had fell in love with her) anyway, my partner because of how possessive I had become decided that when she came out of hospital she was going to stop at her man friends for a while, and then get a place of her own……..

Whilst stopping at her man friends they slept together a couple of times, I was trying to see her during that time to try and sort things out between us, but I felt that she really was not acting at all like herself and put it down to her illness (I thought she came out of hospital far to early) …..

Eventually she started to sms me to ask if she could come back home which she did for one night, but every time she ended up going back to him. Then one day I said to her ‘’you really need to make a choice, me or him’’ so she went back to him to tell him that she wanted to be with me. But in the end she couldn’t go through with it, so she readmitted herself into hospital.

When she came out of hospital she came back home to me, but we are not together in that way, as she said at the time that she doesn’t want a relationship with either of us, and that she still wants to get a place of her own. She came home, basically because I wanted her to, and to be with our children. At this time she was still seeing her man friend, but it had tapered off to about an hour or two each night…….i tried to not put her under any pressure, and tried to be happy with whatever she wanted to do. (inwardly I was dying though)

She then dropped a bomb shell on me, she has found out that she is pregnant…I have said to her that I love her and still want to try again with her, whether that is with his baby or without.

She has got some major decisions to make in her life, whether to keep baby or terminate ( we don’t believe in termination, so it looks as though she will keep it, but if she does she doesn’t feel its fair for me to bring up another mans baby) she secretly hopes that nature intervenes and she misscarrys, I think she has decided she doesn’t want to be with her man friend, as visits to him have tapered off to a couple of hourly visits a week.

With her being at home now for about 6 weeks, she has started to feel comfortable there, and is questioning her plans to get a place of her own.

The trouble is she still has not said that we can start again, she knows how I feel, but she has got to make her own mind up what it is she wants, and make decisions accordingly, the trouble is at the moment she wont make any decisions, I feel as though she is just sticking her head in the sand and hoping everything will sort itself out. I know her life has become very complicated and she knows that her man friend will never leave her alone because this would be his first and only child, she is also worried about him because he tried to kill himself over the loss of a women before, so she is frightened he will do that again.

She has hinted to me on occasions that she needs time and space to sort things out, how much time do I give her ? I know she loves me, she has also hinted that she wants to start again,( but she hasn’t come right out and said that in as many words) but she is scared that we will end up back where we were 3 months ago, with her ending up in hospital. Although I could quote some positive things she has said to me, there are a few negative ones also.

I have changed a lot since then, this whole ordeal has made me a different person, and she can see I have altered. I am starting to get fed up with all the rejection she is dishing out at me, I really want her to make a decision about us, so we can start to move forward, I feel as though my life is in Limbo, and so is hers……..what do you all think ? is there any hope for us ? how long do I wait for her ? is she playing me for a fool, i.e is there something else going on here I cant see………

Your WW has seems like she has some serious emotional issues that are compounded by her emotional breakdown, her preganancy with OM's child, OM and her mother's dislike of you.

She MAY not have told you she wants to work on rebuilding the M because of all the things that have happened in her life. She doesn't want to raise your hopes only to dash them by leaving you again.

You say that you are getting fed up with her rejection and her unwillingness to make a decision and that's pefectly understandable but you also have to remember that what your WW has gone thru and is still going thru makes her indecision and rejection perfectly understandable as well.

You have a choice, doing what your WW is doing which is waiting and wishing for things to sort themselves out or take an active approach that includes counseling and following the MB methodology for dealing with an A describe in What are Plan A and Plan B?

Please read all the MB materiel on this website and read the Harley books 'Surviving an affair''Love busters' and 'His needs Her needs'.

You are not a victim, you do have choices that may not be easy ones to make, but choices nonetheless.

Good luck and God bless.

Mythos

How are you coming with Plan A? Are you reading the books and studying the Principles?

Your Wife is a mess and making a mess out of your life and the lives of your children, not to mention her own life. It is seldom any of us can do much to make the Wayward Spouse change, especially when there seems to be so much drama going on with hospitalizations and a Mother In Law campaigning against you.

Why does the MIL have such negative feelings about you? Have you done something or does she perceive you have done something against her daughter? Maybe the MIL is promoting this 'affair'.

I am so sorry for your situation and your pain, but you ahve come to the right place and there is a wealth of information and ideas here to help you get your own self straight and begin your own healing process. Often when we do this, it is a magnet for the Wayward Spouse...

Right now the most important thing is to focus on the Principles and the Policies and spend a lot fo time reassuring your kids and focusing on yourself and getting past this for your own sake. Your wife sounds very sick or manipulative and you need to protect yourself with one of the Plans...A or B.

Let us know how we can help.

Catnip =^^=

HI,

After writing my original letter, there have been some developments.

Firstly she has agreed for us to start again, that is good news, but things are still very difficult...yesterday (these are her words)she went and told other man that we were back together again, and wanted to make it work. He was fine with this, and respected her choice. But he still wants a say in his childs upbringing, and wants to see it as much as he can...My partner agreed to this, as it would be his one and only child, something he has always wanted. So he isn't ever going to go away, he will be in our life forever :-( One of the problems is trusting my partner again, all the lies she told me i find it very hard to trust her. Even now he is texting her and telling her he loves her, and she sends little kisses back etc, and she still tells me little lies so she can bump into him at the shops. i want this to work but feel as though it is me doing all the work to make it work.

I Know she still has feelings for him because she has told me so, she also feels sorry for him, and also feels guilty that she is with me and not him...she told me today that i have nothing to worry about and that the textx will die down......i wish i could believe her, i dunno this pain at times is unbearable.

Her Mother blames me for her unhappiness, and putting her in hospital in the first place, the truth is she is to blame for not protecting her daughter from an abusive dad.

The rejection is getting less, so that is another positive, i think the big thing at the moment is trusting her again, especially as i know she is still lying to me ( the reason i know that is because i am reading her text messages on her phone, so i cant confront her about her lies)

oh, well plod on i guess and hope everything turns out ok...

Mythos,
Guess what? Other man's baby is due in 2 months and I am with my WW living in another country. Things will get better . . .
Until my resentment for other man goes away he will always haunt me but things are getting better. Like you, this will probably be other man's only child and I will have to deal with visits etc. . . I am looking at adoption in the future but for now other man's name will be in the birth certificate.
My wife feels guilty too for taking other man's child away from him and also has feelings for him and sometimes misses him but she would like (for now) to stay with me. We were separated for almost one year and she is happy to have been able to come back to me even pregnant but Mythos it is not easy. Even now I think do I really want to deal with all this. My parents barely talk to me because frankly they don't know what to say. A lot of people in her family don't know the child is not mine and when they talk about the kid looking like me etc... I die inside.
It is very difficult but I love my wife and want to make it work. Our level of maturity and communication with each other has gotten much better since this upheaval. We are learning to love each other and care for each other like never before. The affair and separation has in many ways done good for our marriage. Sometimes though I wish we did not have to relive it all the time with the fact of the child coming. I am happy and excited about becoming a father but when the kid is not your own, it is a bit different. I hope that once the kid is born I will be able to love and care for it as if it was my own.

Hi Tofu,

In My case OM Lives about half a mile away, and wife still sees him, they are texting each other all the time, him saying how much he loves her, and her texting kisses etc.

How are you supposed to deal with this ?

She says for me not to worry, we will be ok, and that she loves me, and is with me, but how do i trust her after all the lies she has told me ? And still telling me, these are the issues that are plagueing me at the moment.

I want this to work, but she is so fond of other man and cares about his feelings etc, it seems at times she doesnt give a flying F**K about my feelings.

I keep wondering if i'm doing the right thing in trying to make this work.......but then i look at her, and know that i am so in love with her that i have to try and make this work.

Sorry for the rant! I feel realy down today!!

mythos,
No need to be sorry. It is understandable.

Dawn

Mythos,

Have you been to a lawyer? You need to go and determine your rights? In most states as the H YOU are the father of the child unless contested and proven. The OM gets to pay child support if he is allowed to be the father. But, you may have more say than you think.

Neither OM nor your W have really respected your rights by their continued contact. Neither of them are in a very good mental state: he has attempted suicide and your W has had a breakdown.

I strongly urge you to discuss with your lawyer your ability to have custody of your current children and this child. Why? You need this information before you can make any decisions. AND YOU DO HAVE DECISIONS TO MAKE.

One, are you going to subject your other children to a family life with mother running around with OM? Is he going to be coming over to your house? Is she going to stop emailing kisses and getting professions of his love?

Mythos if this doesn't stop your marriage has no chance and you would be better off getting out of it now before the child comes.

I hate to be harsh, but when solving tough problems the drill goes as follows:

1. Collect ALL of the data necessary.

2. Face the cold hard facts of the situation.

3. Consider the effects of this decision on all parties concerned. For example, if you decide to stay you are very likely to be hurt, your current children will probably be hurt, and your family will be hurt. On the other side your W will be unhappy unless you allow her to do whatever she wants. If you go, you protect your children, you are hurt, your W is happy, OM is happy, and the child gets raised in a home with two people that, to be generous, aren't very stable.

4. Then make the decision based on the best long term guess you can make. You will never know if it was the best decision, but YOU must make one.

I would advise you to consider the literature here, and more importantly to counsel with Steve Harley. I know that he got K through a similar mess.

But, Mythos, make no mistake your W is having her cake and eating as well. I am sure the Steve Harley can help you break out of this loop. But, you have some very hard decisions to make and so does she.

By the way, how many other children do you have?

God Bless,

JL

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just Learning:
[QB]Mythos,
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Neither OM nor your W have really respected your rights by their continued contact.
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I asked her about this today, and she said that she isn't seeing him...not since the other day when she supposedly told him that we were starting again.
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One, are you going to subject your other children to a family life with mother running around with OM? Is he going to be coming over to your house? Is she going to stop emailing kisses and getting professions of his love?
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Two of my children are 15 & 17, so they know what the crack is..my other daughter is only 4, this of course could have a profound effect on her, but as i said, according to her she has stopped seeing him...the texting i was talking about was on her mobile phone. I think i have to stop reading her text messages as they are not doing me any good, and as hard as its going to be i have got to trust that she is going to do all she can to make things right between us, if they ever can be??

My decision at the moment hasn't changed, i still want to try and make this work, she says that she is trying to make everything right, and i am also trying.

The big problem is How Do I Trust her again ? how do i go about my daily business without worrying about what she is doing, whether she is with him, or whether she isnt ? This is the issue that is eating away at me, and it shows in my attitude to my wife when i am with her, which is really getting her down.......
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I would advise you to consider the literature here, and more importantly to counsel with Steve Harley. I know that he got K through a similar mess.
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I Have read most of the literature, and putting into practice what i can, there is no way i can get councilling from steve harley as i live in the UK.
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By the way, how many other children do you have?
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3 at the moment.

I really need to be able to trust her, and stop talking about OM, and what she has been up to while i am at work, these are the things that will prevent us from working (her words)....for me i dont know how to trust her anymore, or how to deal with thoughts i have of when they were together.

Mythos,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really need to be able to trust her, and stop talking about OM, and what she has been up to while i am at work, these are the things that will prevent us from working (her words)....for me i dont know how to trust her anymore, or how to deal with thoughts i have of when they were together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It makes sense to me. Does it make sense to your W? I think I would pose the problem to here just as you have done here and discuss ways for this to happen. Use the POJA here and see if the two of you can reach a mutually agreement that satisfies both of you. She must recognize that it will be quite awhile before you fully trust her.

That brings up the issues of her texting him. THat needs to stop. It also brings up the issue of him in the childs life. How does she propose to handle this so that YOU are as comfortable as possible? These things need to be discussed and determined. She may feel you are being unreasonable to expect him not to be around her but in the babies life, but it can be done and probably should be done if at all possible. Motherof5 is the expert on this. So was Wantitback. But I don't see them posting much here.

Again, go see your Solicitor concerning your rights in the UK with respect to the baby. OM may have few rights unless he forces the issue, but that should cost him a pretty penny. It is clear he has no concern for you, or the other children, and perhaps even this child. But maybe he will develop a conscience. One can dream. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Must go, but keep talking with your W. She has to be part of any successful plan to rebuild this marriage. She has a lot of work to do herself.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

mythos

There is something else that you have not dealt with and it's what happens if OC becomes much more emotionally attached to you than his bio dad but his bio dad holds all the cards as to custody rights over him/her? It's a real possibility because the child will interact more with you than with OM. As much you are in pain, this a very likely scenario that can be easily avoided if you make it a make it or break it deal with your WW. It would be a tragedy that if your WW passed away, the OC would be dragged kicking and screaming from the man he considers his father, you.

With a good Plan A and avoiding love busters, you can hope that your wife's affair will end and if they insist on OM's involvement with the child, then you must be the go-between. You can't trust anything your wife says right now... I wouldn't... She must earn back your trust through an established pattern of her gestures aligning with her words. She sounds confused and like she wants you to just keep treading water while she tries to figure things out. That's why YOU have to have a plan. The Plan is to meet her emotional needs and no love busters. You can read about the emotional needs on this site and fill out the questionnaire so you can learn what your W's emotional needs are. That's a start. Next, by meeting the emotional needs she has listed as her top 5, you can work your plan to rebuild her lovebank with deposits from YOU instead of the OM...

If she truly wants to work on your marriage, then she has to quit seeing the OM, write the No Contact letter (see example in Dr.Harley's book Surviving An Affair), and allow you to be the go-between for all his visits with the child. Are you up to it? I know, it's a daunting task, but worth it to protect your marriage from this other man...

Hang in there. You have a long road ahead... I pray that your wife would get herself to a healthy place for the sake of everyone involved. Good luck!

Having the OM involved in the OC's life is a BAD idea for everybody involved, especially the child. What's going to happen to the child if the WW dies? What if the OC wants to stay with the BS but the OM insists on taking the child with him?

This kind of stuff really stinks no doubt about it! Even though the OM in my life is thousands of miles away his presence still bugs and haunts me everyday. My WW is still going through withdrawal symptoms and he is still very much in love with her. I too think of leaving all the time but then I remember my year of separation and how much I suffered and how happy I am to be back with my wife. I am willing to stick it out a little longer. I have talked to a lawyer about adoption. I am not planning on lying on the birth certificate or to the child. I rather be honest. It is difficult, very difficult but I need to have a little more patience. When my mind is not running on these terrible thoughts my relationship with my wife is better than ever. But the last few days I could feel her withdrawal symptoms come on again. Good luch]k Mythos.

Thanks for all the feedback on this, at the moment i am trying plan A, which seems to be working quite well.They are still texting each other on their mobile phones, but i am trying not to worry about that ( difficult!!) but concentrating on meeting her emotional needs, things must be working because she actually told me she loved me today,without me having to say it first......but there are good days and there are bad...the interesting time will come when baby is born!!!

Again, many thanks for the feedback from those that posted, and i'm sure i will be saying a lot more as time goes on...

Cheers

N

To carry this on.....

The thing that i am finding really hard to deal with at the moment is the amount, and nature of the mobile phone texts that are passing between my wife & OM.

I know this needs to stop, but when i talk to my wife about it she blows up in the air saying she will do whatever she wants to do. So talking about how hard i find it doesn't sway much with her.

Basically OM, is scoring massive deposits in wifes love bank due to his smarmy way with words, i find this to be a helpless situation, and i am not sure how to handle it ???

I have tried *not* to secretly read her phone texts, but then, it eats away at me not knowing what is going on. I also find when i do read them, it feels like a knife going in, the way they talk to each other! At least visits with each other have cut right down to virtually nothing.

What is the best way forward here ? try and ignore phone texts ? or put my foot down and demand she stop ? all i feel that would do is make a massive withdrawal out of her love bank.

my guess would be to try and ignore the texts and carry on with plan A, in the hope that eventually she will deal with the texting problem in her way ??

She supposed to have told OM that we were trying again, and he said he respects that and that he would back off, well to me, this is not backing off, and wife doesn't help by texting him back with kisses all the time.

What do you guys think i should do ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mythos:
[QB]To carry this on.....

the mobile phone texts that are passing between my wife & OM.
I know this needs to stop, but when i talk to my wife about it she blows up in the air saying she will do whatever she wants to do. So talking about how hard i find it doesn't sway much with her.

=^^= Hi Mythos. I've been reading your thread and see that your Wife is still hurting you with the texting. At this point, a rigid Plan B must be implemented when it gets to the point where you just can't stand to live like this for one more moment. As you know from studying the Harley principles, a strong Plan B does two things quite effectively. It preserves whatever love you have left for her while giving her the opportunity to experiencing what life is like without you. It is a last ditch effort, and can be a risk because one never knows which way the card will fall, but more times than not, the Wayward Spouse fidns themselves hit with realities they are not prepared to deal with and sometimes home and Spouse look mighty wonderful. It is something to consider yet it is probably something you would rather not do because it effects you, too. Unplesantly at first, and then after a while your own esteem returns along with a lot of strength. Plan B is a tough Plan that we all find difficult to incorporate, and try to avoid because of the changes we have to make (and none of us like changes and will fight to avoid them) but it's effectiveness is undeniable for most.

Basically OM, is scoring massive deposits in wifes love bank due to his smarmy way with words, i find this to be a helpless situation, and i am not sure how to handle it ???

=^^- Aside from hiring a ghost writer like Cyrano d' Bergerac did to capture Roxanne's heart, there is nothing much you can do about this. OM is feeding your Wife's need for validation that she is desirable and making life exciting with the secretiveness and intrigue. It is all phony and without substance and if she ever ended up with him, it would end within a matter of weeks or months with your Wife desperate to come home to you and the kids.

I have tried *not* to secretly read her phone texts, but then, it eats away at me not knowing what is going on. I also find when i do read them, it feels like a knife going in, the way they talk to each other! At least visits with each other have cut right down to virtually nothing.

=^^= I'm so sorry. I know how much this hurts and the powerlessness you must feel to control it. It's all fantasy, Mythos, and not one word is real...it IS all illusion. Their selfish behavior is hurting you deeply and hurting your children too. When you can't stand one more minute of this, plunge into Plan B. No one should have to go through this for very long.

What is the best way forward here ? try and ignore phone texts ? or put my foot down and demand she stop ? all i feel that would do is make a massive withdrawal out of her love bank.

=^^= Yeah, sometimes it makes a huge withdrawal and other times it shakes things up to make a demand. Sometimes a strong demand shows your strength to a Spouse and makes them realize how deeply you want them and shows them you are not a doormat, making you more attractive to them. If she feels she can just call all the shots and walk all over you, she will if she is allowed to. She has the power and she is abusing that power. While I believe deeply in the Harley principles and use them in my own life, I also give into my human nature at times when appropriate, and you will instinctively know when that time comes. I never want my husband to see me as "needy" or "weak" or willing to needlessly acquiesce. I want him to know there are "boundaries" he cannot cross in this marriage and that I have self resepct and that he is not allowed to trounce all over me. If you hold tough with your convictions and demand respect and demand she not contact OM and tell her because it hurts you and hurts the kids and her actions have caused your family great distress and that it isn't fair for her to perpetuate this communication and that she must make a choice, she will at least respect you for your strength and maybe not flaunt her behavior. There are going to be consequences for her actions, Mythos. One way or another, she will have to face reality soon.

my guess would be to try and ignore the texts and carry on with plan A, in the hope that eventually she will deal with the texting problem in her way ??

=^^= As long as your can bear it....

She supposed to have told OM that we were trying again, and he said he respects that and that he would back off, well to me, this is not backing off, and wife doesn't help by texting him back with kisses all the time.

=^^= Oh for crying out loud. Kisses? Is she in high school? Well, Mythos, apparantly one of her biggest emotional needs that need to be met is adorable tokens of admiration. Perhaps you can win her over by doing some of the same kind of things for your wife. A small stuffed animal with some flowers, an invitation to a movie with dinner, a wrist corsage...I don't know. Leave her little hand written love notes with a lot of sexual innuendo by the coffee pot for her to find when she wakes up. Attach another note to her mirror, one in her car and buy and mail her heartfelt and mushy cards...dig up old photos from when you two were the happiest and make a little album out of them and present it to her with an invitation to return to a restaurant or a place where the two of you had a really wonderful time together. Buy her something for the baby...there are a lot if schmatzie things you can do that will make her want to connect with you, but you have to make the effort. Romance her. Plan A is doing some of these things along with avoiding raging outbursts. Plan A does NOT mean taking emotional abuse or allowing her to trouce all over your boundaries.

All I can say is that you are putting up with something that is devastating to you and it is time to blow the dust off your own arsenal of romantic love cooties and use them. Desperate times call for desperate measures. However, if the romantic behavior works, don't get compliant or indifferent years down the road and end the romance or you might find her "texting" again.

Give it a couple weeks. Outdo the OM with out-romancing him. It sounds like she is really susceptible to this. If this doesn't work, then Plan B.

Luck to you, Mythos

Catnip =^^=

QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ November 29, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>