Last night my FIL passed away. It has been a very difficult two nights witnessing this process. He was very elderly and frail, so this is not totally unexpected, just the reality hitting is hard.

Tina

<small>[ December 08, 2002, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Tina71 ]</small>

Oh, Tina...I am so, so sorry. You must be completely emotionally drained and exhausted.

Your husband's indignation that the OW and two OC's are not included in the obits is outrageous to the extreme. Common courtesy, ordinary decorum/manners and common sense dictates that anyone legally married to a spouse would NEVER expect an adulterous whore to be listed in the obits along with her two [censored] children! This is EXTREMELY disrespectful of you, as his wife and your two grown children. He must not embarrass you or your children by shoving this trollop and those kids in your faces expecting everyone to "accept" this crude and unconventional and unblessed situation. Ugh! It makes me sick.

What on earth is he thinking? This death is about his father, comforting his family and for a few days, pretending the OW and OC's do not exist. Why would he want to include and make public something so shameful and embarrassing unless he is so deep in the fog of denial and self serving to the extreme, nothing matters except how HE feels?

For ONCE, just for ONCE, he can put his own desires aside for everyone else.

I'm sorry, Tina, but this is really and truly unspeakable.

Catnip =^^=

Catnip, may I ask if you are still in counseling? I'm not trying to be judgemental of anyone but you seem to have more than your fair share of bitterness. While I agree that it is absolutely ridiculous to expect the OW to be invited and accepted to the funeral, I don't think it is as ridiculous for Tina's husband to want the OC in the obituary. We may not like it, but if those kids are biologically his then they are/were the FIL's grandchildren. Keep in mind though that this man's father just died so he may not be thinking rationally at all including the BS's feelings. Apparently though from reading the previous posts, this particular WS has not acted in the best interest of the marriage for a while now.

Tina, I am so sorry for your loss. I am sure you were very close to him, with the length of your marriage.
I think your H is using his grief to think only what he needs.Did his father accept OC? Did he welcome his adulterous son and his actions?What about how his siblings will feel, his kids with you? Even if I could accept the listing of OC in obituary, I certainly cannot imagine having OW there at funeral.Did she even know father in law?
If not, she isn't there to pay her respects or anything, but both are trying to legitimize their relationship and act as if what they did or are to each other is o.k with all.
fact is, even in death, it is not.

You could get away with mentioning OC by just saying he was survived by grandchildren. your father in law certainly won't care, and the people who matter in the family know who his grandchildren are. It doesn't have to be known to the community.
Just my two cents.

And I don't think catnip is hostile. Just angry. I would be too, for Tina. She is in a rough spot-for your H not to recognize what you meant to father in law, is absurd. I think your H needs a rude awakening-get a formal separation, take out money from joint funds, get a great lawyer, and seek high alimony. If you have not worked in years since being married, you will get quite a bit.Don't you think?
Email me,Tina.

<small>[ December 08, 2002, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Tina71 ]</small>

Tina, I am new to posting but not new to this board. I have been reading the MB websites for almost two years. My Hubby had a two year affair while in the military. The A produced an OC. I had no idea about the affair, let alone an OC until OW was about 7 months pregant. OW was mad that hubby was still with me and wasn't moving fast enough to leave me and be with her and OC so she called me and spilled the beans. Her thinking was that I would be so upset I would throw hubby out and he would go running straight to her. Her plan backfired! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Her telling only made Hubby absolutely furious with her. He says he was NEVER planning on leaving me for her and he only stayed with her as long as he did out of fear. Fear that if he ended things she would either tell me or tell his chain of command (adultery is illegal and punishable in the military). Once she called me and told me in the most hurtful way that she could, Hubby wanted NOTHING to do with her. Of course we have to pay CS every month (OC is a 20 month old girl) but H does not want to be apart of the little girl's life. I have mixed emotions about that because I feel if we have to pay for the child we should have some say so in her life, AND I also feel that hubby has a moral obligation to that child. I mean honestly, I do have some reservations that hubby could turn his back on his own child. That's just the way I feel. We don't have any children together but if we ever DO have children and if H ever DOES decide to leave me one day, would he turn his back on OUR children as easily? That's just a nagging thought in the back of my mind. On the other hand, I am kind of glad that we don't have contact. While I do think he should be a father to OC I don't know if I could handle visitation. Does that make sense? Probably not. Right now we are 1861 miles away from OC (give or take a mile or two but who's counting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) so no contact is a lot easier.

<small>[ November 08, 2002, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: nocontact4us ]</small>

Tina,

I know that you have been through alot with your husband and this ongoing affair of his. I am sorry for all of your pain, I truly am very sorry that you have to deal with a ws who only now has finally figured out what it is he thinks he wants for his life. He's dragged you through the mud, and no one deserves that.
I think there comes a time in any relationship when you have to ask yourself, is this what I really want for myself? Am I really getting what I need and desire for myself being with this person? I know you were married a long time, and have alot invested in the marriage, but what about you, what about what you want and deserve from a partner?

I agree with nocontact's post. Catnip, you do seem much more than just angry. I've in part avoided the board because of reading such hurtful posts. I feel that slinging the hurtful names and promoting hostility only prolongs the pain that Tina, and many of us, are in right now. Sometimes angry reactions only add fuel to the fire or salt to the wounds.

I really liked Twistly's post about forgiveness so much that I printed it out. She is really right on the mark about it being the only way to stop resenting and being bitter inside for all the pain we, each of us, bs and ws, ow with children, whomever, has had to endure, for whatever reason, by someone who we loved and trusted. We've all been duped in one way or another and there are no winners in this ugly game but there comes a time that we become victims of our own anger and I hate to see anyone fall into that trap.



CM

Tina
I am sorry for your family's loss I know how hard it is to suffer the loss of a parent.
I am afraid, that since your husband has not had the courage to be open about the children he supposedly loves, there is no reason to mention them, He would have to grow up and face facts if he wants things like that to happen.
I am sure catnip he did not want the adulterous whore to be named just his children. But even he hasnt openly claimed them, so I dont think it really matters.
I will say that when omw's mother passed away, she chose to add my daughter in the obituary and then wrote my daughter a note telling her about her mother. I have that note in my daughters baby book. was I surised, yes very much so, she said she did it because my daughter is also her husbands child and she chose to love all his children. That included her. who knows, we still have our differences, always will, but she does give it a try at times. AS I know you have worked very hard to care for those children tina.
I am sure there are all kinds of politically correct answers to this. But people dont always think the right thing when a loved one dies.
tinas husband is grieving for his parent and I am sure has mixed emotions and doesnt know what to do.
If om dies I will be at his funeral, with my daughter sitting beside his wife as per his request...
politically correct, NO ,
Tina just keep holding your head up high and start doing for your self, this in no way means your giving up, but he needs to see you can make it on your own and he has lost more than he knows.
Your children love and appreciate you and you have a lot going for you even if sometimes you dont see it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nocontact4us:
<strong>Catnip, may I ask if you are still in counseling? I'm not trying to be judgemental of anyone but you seem to have more than your fair share of bitterness.

=^^= I've never been in counseling. Do you think I need counseling or anger management? Perhaps. But, I just have the nerve to say what others think and are too civilized to say. You can judge me all you want, it doesn't matter to me because I am judgmental of people who repeated hurt others and are completely insensitve to someone's pain. I am outraged at the disregard Tina's husband is showing her after almost three decades of devotion and commitment. If I sound "hostile", I am and I make no apology for it. We can all candy-coat the truth but it doesn't make the situation any better. I spoke harsely in Tina's defenseand the only reason I would apologize at all is if I had hurt Tina in any way.
I remember how much I appreciated someone being outraged on my behalf when I was being treated so shabbily.

While I agree that it is absolutely ridiculous to expect the OW to be invited and accepted to the funeral, I don't think it is as ridiculous for Tina's husband to want the OC in the obituary. We may not like it, but if those kids are biologically his then they are/were the FIL's grandchildren.

=^^= FIL didn't even know they existed. A revelation like that to the friends and family at this time could take the emphasis and the attention off the grief of loosing FIL and turn it towards something embarrassing and humiliating.


Keep in mind though that this man's father just died so he may not be thinking rationally at all including the BS's feelings.

=^^= Husband's dismissal of Tina's feelings is nothing new and he has not been thinking rationally for months, anyway. FIL's death does compound this, I admit, but the reality of it is that husband's place is standing up for his children with his wife and not embarrassing THEM, not using the funeral or obit as a forum to bring this information to light. The OC's do not need to be acknowledged at this time.

Apparently though from reading the previous posts, this particular WS has not acted in the best interest of the marriage for a while now.

=^^= My point exactly.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Catnip, you do seem much more than just angry. I've in part avoided the board because of reading such hurtful posts.

=^^= For crying out loud, CM, until I blasted Tina's husband, there hasn't been one word of snarkiness for months! If you've avoided the board, it is probably because it was a sleepy place for the past couple months. Please show me one recent hostile post to make your point.

=^^= I really liked Twistly's post about forgiveness so much that I printed it out.

Me too. Forgiveness comes with reparation and healing. Right now Tina is in the midst of her turmoil and at the peak of her pain enduring rejection and isolation. In time, probably soon because of who she is, she will find forgiveness for her husband. That being said, there is a time for forgiveness and there is a time for outrage, there is a time for healing and a time for tears.

I can't help but feel outraged for the way she is being treated...it is just too horrible.

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<small>[ November 08, 2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Iam outraged by what Tina's H has done to her, and what many of our H's have done to us. Will I ever not be outraged about the lack of respect, love, support etc that any of our H's showed by being an adulterer? No, I don;t think so. Will I possibly get over all this and move on? In some fashion, yes. With or without H, I will move on.

But will I not be angry, hurt by all this? No. Getting to process of forgiveness takes much time, and much time of being angry.At person who committed awful acts against us. HUrt us badly.

I don't see Tina living her life ruined by her anger. I see her angry. I am angry too. Do you think the people who lost loved ones on Sept. 11th will ever forgive the terroists? I doubt it.

When others wound others, I don't think it is natural to forgive easily or maybe at all. It is important not to let the rage eat one alive, but no, I don't think forgiving the OW is in my cards.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
[QB]
If om dies I will be at his funeral, with my daughter sitting beside his wife as per his request...
politically correct, NO ,

=^^= From someone who lives a politically incorrect life anyway, I just have to say that you and your daughter being at the OM's funeral is appropriate because everyone is working on their marriage and have come to agreements on how to conduct their relatiosnhips for the sake of your daughter. Comparing your situation to Tina's is comparing apples to oranges. Tina is nowhere near where you and your situation is. Tina is being railroaded and rejected, isolated and dismissed. There is no restoration happening there. Tina is being made to take a back seat to the OW and two OC's and her hsuband is not entering into any POJA with her or working diligently to wrap his arms around Tina or her two children to rebuild the marriage and the family. No, he is angry because the OC's were not mentioned in the obits and that the OW is not welcomed to come to the funeral...for God's sake. Where is everyone's priorities? Where is the common sense here? What is so terribly wrong with being angry about something so deserving wrath? My ONLY concern is for Tina and her children and if anyone here doesn't think my outrage for her situation is appropriate, that's just too bad because this is way I am and will always be. It is one of the things that makes me a good friend. I know where my loyalties lie and I defend my friends to the death.

Should Tina's husband come out of his coma and declare his dedication to restoring and rebuilding the marriage, then there can be negotiations and forgiveness.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I hope I can call you my friend, catnip. You are the kind of friend I like. and value.

Mom of five, I can well understand your daughter being at OM"s funeral if that should happen. He and his wife are incorporating that child into their life.

But why should you be there? is your H in agreement of this ?And is his wife happy to have you be there at funeral as well? Just wondering. If not, I see you and OM doing exactly what you want to do, because OM asks. NOt necessarily good for all.

why would I be there, because my daughter would need me and I would be there to comfort her.. His wife would have her daughter.. Because I am not om's enemy, we are paenting a child together...

Why would my husband care, if I died he would expect om to be there, I have to say I hope we live to be very , very old.. and this wont be an issue...

for us it just isnt that big of an isue any more.

catnip, I am not comparing my situation just telling a little of my situation, I in no way think my situation is any thing like tinas and have great concern for what she is going through... I think her husband is wrong as well.. I also think he is gonna wake up one day and think... oh my god what did I do ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>

catnip, I am not comparing my situation just telling a little of my situation, I in no way think my situation is any thing like tinas and have great concern for what she is going through...

=^^= Oh, I know. I didn't mean to imply anything and probably should have thought out my response better. I seem to type in a fury when my adrenelin is pumping. I just tried to point out that since the situations are so different, one cannot expect Tina's husband's OCs equal billing, or billing at all in this early stage in the game.

I think her husband is wrong as well.. I also think he is gonna wake up one day and think... oh my god what did I do ?

=^^= Most of them do, however, sometimes it's just too late or gone too far. I'm hoping (and I know I will sound mean) the OW will dump Tina's husband down the road and leave him a broken man regretting ever leaving Tina. I know THAT happens a lot. And I hope when it happens, Tina will be blissfully fulfilled in her life and perhaps have someone worthy of her, loving and loyal just to her.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unhappy wife:
<strong>I hope I can call you my friend, catnip. You are the kind of friend I like. and value.

=^^= Wow...UHW. Thank you. I am very humbled and would love to be considered your friend.

It seems I have hijacked Tina's thread. I'm sorry, Tina.

Catnip =^^=
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Tina having the ow at the funeral is ridiculous. Since the other children are not acknowledge by there own family recognizing them in the paper really isn't necesary. that being said i have to say the reason that i have really stopped posting ( and wish I could post more about a succesful contact story) is because of catnip and her harsh "truths" and she likes to put them. I get tired of reading about theand i quote"[censored] offsprings" lkie she refers to them I for one happen to LOVE a offspring no make that a miracle child just like all of God's other miracle children.

Tina,

Please accept my late post and condolances on the death of your FIL...I honestly didn't know what to say...

I, too, am aghast at your H's insensitivity to you. To me, it sounds like he really is in some kind of Bermuda Triangle fog...off the radar!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I hope you are doing things for yourself and taking care of yourself. What are your plans for the moment?

I admire how you stayed with your FIL and it shows what a kind, compassionate and caring woman you are. You are a wonderful person.

As for Cat, UW and others who are outraged at what your Husband did to you, I share the sentiment...He has no right to do that.

We love ya and keep posting to let us know what's going on with you, ok?

I'll try to e-mail you later...please e-mail me with your addy...I think I lost it...hope you have mine!

Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whatif?:
[QB]that being said i have to say the reason that i have really stopped posting ( and wish I could post more about a succesful contact story) is because of catnip and her harsh "truths" and she likes to put them. I get tired of reading about theand i quote"[censored] offsprings" lkie she refers to them QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatif...Don't give me such power! I am only one person out of twenty here, there are at least nineteen others who you can commiserate with. Don't go away just because of one person who mouths off. Big deal. Don't be such a candy [censored]. Besides, it has been AGES since we have had any kind of "issue" here on the board...so where have you been then?

I applaud those who can and do have successful contact...it is such a huge rarity and almost impossible for most. You must be a much more tolerant person than I could ever hope or want to be. People like me (the intolerant) are necessary, believe it or not, because if people like me didn't openly say what most people think, we would be held emotionally hostage by people (like you?) who "scold" others for their point of view. And since we do live in a country where there still is freedom of speech, I guess I can just keep mouthing off...but, you don't have to read it, like it and above all, do not give me so much power to chase you away! It is ridiculous, and a really, really lousy excuse to not post. I never scold people for having a successful contact...that is absolutely ludicrous.

Calm down and treat yourself to some kibbles. Keep posting. Your situation and your mindset are important to others who have contact.

Catnip =^^=

I think that what Tina's husband has done to her, what he has put her through, and what he continues to put her through is horrible. I also feel that refering to anyone as an adulterous whore and their children as [censored] is in the same league as Tina's WS behavior. Its stooping right down in the mud and that is my point. I'm not going to go sifting through past posts to make my point. I just don't have the time, nor do I want to go looking for hurtful comments made by whomever. Its not about debating the point. I'm simply saying that I tread with caution to be careful how I word my posts; to be sure I'm not offensive or hurtful, even without intending to be. Its not too much to ask of anyone, in my humble opinion.

I understand the anger but I also believe that forgiveness is a criteria for healing. I don't see Tina hung up in anger and hell yes, she has every right to be angry. All that I'm saying is that fueling the fire of rage isn't helping anyone, Tina in particular in this instance. Tina is still an individual with the right to be happy, with our without her WS. She has alot of life to live and hopefully, she will find the next phase a happier one.

CM