Mof5,
Please do not leave the site. I have gained so much insight from you.

I only wish that my situation was like yours. I have tried over and over. I have accepted the OC into my life. The problem is OW does not want to accept me into their life. She wants the life with my husband. She wants the life for her children growing up that our children had, including my husband. Being a single woman she has no one for support like you do with your husband. Makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for all your support.

Tina

Mo5,

I hope you don't leave, but I feel like your're holding some of the posters here hostage with your righteousness and beating them over the head with the same.

You have stated over and over again just how wonderful your situation has worked out for all involved, well, the situation has not blossomed so well for some of the other posters here, regardless of whether they've included the child in their lives or not.

My H and I decided to include the child in our lives, and we see her as sort of a 'blossoming blessing' but along with that decision came loads of drama and legal fees. So we've taken the good with the bad and we try to take things one day at a time.

Shaming hurting, angry, and yes, sometimes bitter people into doing the 'right' thing and saying the 'right' thing, well, it's just not gonna happen....at least not here. Please accept that.

I'm at work, so I'll be the first to admit I haven't read all of the posts to this topic, but I bet through the ugly words, righteous words, biblical phrases, povs and what-have-you, people have been able to find some type of release, including yourself.

I don't know, I guess I just see this forum as a mixture of things;
**a dumping ground for the venom that would choke the very life from a bs and all she loves and cares for,
**the soap box for the saved and holy-ghost filled bs to preach forgiveness and understanding,
**the ws to get some insight into what their spouses may be experiencing,
**and xows that want to gain the same insight
I'll admit that throughout these past two years, I've fallen into at least the first two categories time and time again.

Again, MO5, and all involved, please don't leave.
There's too much at stake. Just think if we can all remain here and not run away when things get hot, how much more can we hang in there for our marriages???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you think that keeping your husband from that child hurts that woman, my guess is if your that bitter and incapable of loving a child, that woman thanks god every day you are not in her childs life. Because that is a blessing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think wrong MO5.
No one can keep a man away from oc if he really wants to see the oc.
Everyone's case is different.

Sometimes it's the best thing for all involved.

If ow puts up w/secret visits, the whole affair process will start all over again when the truth comes out. By "affair process" I mean leading a double, secret life again. It won't work.

Surely it's a disaster waiting to happen all over again.

If ow is/was happy not to have me in her childs life because she thinks I am "bitter", then fine. I was willing to have child here for scheduled visits but ow wanted more. Ow made everything an arguement. We got sick of it. I told my H he could choose what he wanted and I wouldn't stand in his way, but would no longer be at his side because the situation was sucking the breath from my life.

I don't worry about secret visits.

We pay our cs/health insurance and go on without the drama ow created and are much more peaceful.

Today on the second anniversay of the most painful day of my/H's life, I can say we've made it over the hump.

And no, H didn't stop because he got caught. A was over, ow threatened to call me (we were friends, remember?). H was "with" her two more times then told her he couldn't stand it anymore and told her to go ahead and call, he was preparing for me to divorce him after I found out about A. Then lo and behold, ow called with the news that she was pregnant, that she forgot to take her pill for a few days and she was sorry.

In our case, it WAS an awakening. H was devastated. Lies. Their whole relationship was lies.

As far as turning his back on oc, we pay. A lot of men who were married to their childrens mother do far worse.

We are doing whats best for us. Remember there was an "us" long before there was a "them". "Us" is what H wants to have.

So bitterness and inability to love a child should be erased from the boards.

Debi

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

ISN'T M05 ENTITLED TO HER OPINION, JUST AS EVERYONE ELSE IS? YOU ALL TALK ABOUT BEING ENTITLED TO FEEL AS YOU DO, TO SAY WHAT YOU FEEL! GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK ALREADY. SHE IS ENTITLED TO FEEL JUST THE WAY SHE DESCRIBED IN HER POSTS.

Opps, sorry about the caps.

I also sense alot of bitterness raging here not to mention jealously. Yup, I said it, jealousy.
A contest to see who can win. I've said it this over and over. If you continue to try and compete with past, you will be forever held hostage by the affair. AND, that doesn't go for BS's only, that goes for all of us.

Stop the attack on M05 now and give her the same courtesy you want for yourselves. The ability to post how you feel and be respected for it and not have anyone take it personally.

Good grief already, this is ridiculous.

CM

MOF

Feel better? I hope so.

The only issue I have about your "bitter" rage is that I don't have a problem with anyone else having their opinion, because, unlike you, I have the ability to admit when I am wrong and I don't make excuses for myself.

I understand why you continue to pontificate your position over and over and over...and I think that is just fine and OK...no problem-o. I understand why you feel the need to chronically defend your position. Why do you not give me the same courtesy? I am not mad at you or tell you off in such a harsh way as you just did to me, but again, that's OK, because I can take it and it doesn't bother me and I understand it.

I accept you postion and do not expect people to agree with me or think only my opinion counts...that is preposterous. If there is one thing about me, even though I have strong opinions and stick by them, I repect other peoples' opinions and don't take that away from them.

When I mouth off, I know what I say may annoy some, especially you and CM, becaue the two of you are so easily offended and think everything controversial or harsh we say here is about you two when no one is giving one thought to you personally when we post. I have been caught off guard and surprised several times by your reactions. You two never allow any of us the liberty of saying what we feel without scolding us for being bitter, jealous and hateful and child haters or other some such nonsense. It is so hard to always walk on eggshells, measuring words when we are in crisis and just want to rid oursleves of whatever.

I don't want to offend you or CM, it is not my intent. I know your situation is one in a million and no one else here shares the luxuries or bliss you do...that alone should tell you something. Because you are so lucky, I would think you would be more generous, less hyper-sensitive and defensive. I would think you would not get so combative about the Betrayeds' choices of words or what they say. While others here beg you to stay, I find your presence constricting because I know you will threaten to leave if you hear things you don't like in an attempt to get others to beg you to stay (you've done this a few times before) and tell us off, preaching to us how hateful we are and making constant excuses for yourselves.
I guess what I am telling you, MOF, you don't need to make excuses to us. We all know your story and have your POV firmly planted in our minds....we know what you think and how you feel and your opinion and that is fine with us. What I am trying to tell you is that you and your child and your wonderful life are not under attack.

I don't like you like I like CM, because in spite of her justifications, she is reachable at times...that is the litmus test...reachable. She doesn't have to agree with me or anyone else, but at least she is more accepting of our POV's here and I think by now realizes that anything we say is not a personal affront to her.

So often you give such wonderful advice and seem so compassionate, MOF. I guess you are a paradox like the rest of us...part good, part bad.

I asked for opinions on this thread about my behavior, so you are wrong when you say I think no one else can have an opinion. I accept your POV and what you have said about me and it doesn't make me feel bad but it does make me take a harder look at myself, and for that I thank you. Don't you think this is something we all should do?

BTW, I think you misunderstood what I said about my grandson...please reread for clarification.

Anyway, good, bad or indifferent, thank you for your opinion. If you were able to purge yourself of negatives, it was worth the posting.

Happy trails

Catnip =^^=

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>

I also sense alot of bitterness raging here not to mention jealously. Yup, I said it, jealousy.
A contest to see who can win. I've said it this over and over. If you continue to try and compete with past, you will be forever held hostage by the affair. AND, that doesn't go for BS's only, that goes for all of us.

Good grief already, this is ridiculous.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right. Why would a site that is designed for Infidelity and OC Situations NOT be filled with bitterness and jealousy....how do you propose to change that? Maybe when we have achieved a higher plane of understanding, nirvana and zen, we will have risen above our mortal imperfect human selves with the ability to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with love in our hearts. Unfortuantely, I don't see that happening unless we are all at a Reverend Sun Moon retreat on the third day of brain washing, shedding our worldly cloak of thoughts and possessions.

Everything connected with this situation wreaks of bitterenss and jealousy in this point in time and in this point in our lives. But, I disagree...it is NOT ridiculous...it is normal under the circumstances. Please allow those of us struggling to find a way out to express ourselves as we see fit without demanding equal time, because you already have had equal time...you've posted your POV's and have defended them and each other over and over and we accept that and it's OK! Most of us just do not agree with you and that's OK too. It doesn't mean your POV's are invalid because they aren't to you.

We vascillate. We get better, then we get worse. Right now, I am worse now then I was two years ago and while I know why, I can't help but feel completely crazy and upset with everything taking so long to repair in my life. I am usually not impatient, in fact I am patient to a fault...but, four years? Come on! No wonder I feel a little bitter. And guess what? I feel entitled. I'm pissed.

I am angry the support system is corrupt and that the powers that be refuse to acknowledge our tax returns! We have even offered to be auditted by the IRS or the courts. I am angry that Bipolar's shrink has dropped the ball on his rehab (I am searching for a new shrink) I am angry my family is so detached and distant because of Bipolar's behavior four years ago, I am angry I can't get the refinance on our mortgage because of loosing our business, the bankruptcy, the HUGE arrears WE DO NOT OWE, I am angry my tenant had to breach his lease and I am loosing significant income and can't find another tenant. I am angry I don't see my grand kids as much as before because my grandson moved to another town with his Mom and my granddaughter's Mom moved another 25 miles away and that everyone else has plans for Thanksgiving, a holiday I have come to despise. My dad and his new wife are going to be with friends instead of family...but then, I don't really blame her. Our family has become so sucky.
I am angry that I didn't go to that party four years ago and I am angry I gave so much of myself to the marraige at my children's and son's expense for it to have come to this. I'm angry we have to go to court Dec 9 to beg for adjustment in CS and retroactive adjustment on arrears and know we are in for a battle.

I am most of all angry at myself for being so incredibly moony eyed and devoted to a man who betrayed me. You people would be stunned to know what I was like before all this...absolutely stunned. Think Livie Walton.

Going to be gone for a few days, a crisis at work, and will check back for flames this weekend. Say what you want, nothing can ever hurt me again.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ November 13, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Catnip,

I thought it was worth saying, I think I also speak for M05 on this one, and some of the others who said they too were put off by the [censored] reference; I don't feel that you were thinking of anyone in particular, namely anyone here, when you used the word. What I was and still am saying is that the word was HURTFUL to me and to the others. I think that point was made very clearly. I took offense. It is that simple. Its not any different when you told me that my use of the word bitter, was hurtful to you. You were triggered and offended. I didn't understand the symantics at first. Its just a word I kept saying; she is legitimately bitter by your her admissions, as I am at times, so what is the big freaking deal over its usage?
The deal is that it hurt you and some of the others. Thats enough for me, and for GOD sake, it should be enough for you and anyone else here who thinks that its justified because your spouse had a child out of marriage. I got it. Why can't you all get it by now??
I empathized. Why can't you see that your choice of words wounded, or doused salt in my injury, and some others as well? I don't care if you were refering to me or my situation, it gravely offended me. And I use the word gravely because that is exactly how feel about that.

It is always such a big ordeal when the shoe is on the other foot; I don't get it, I honestly do not get it. I can understand every word M05 wrote. I have no problem understanding how she feels the way that she does. I also can understand many,many POV that the BS share here.Well, not on this thread, but you know what I mean.

If you and the others want consideration and care in how we ws/ow post, you must extend the same. Otherwise, this thread is a perfect example of what happens. Some progress and alot of BSing, tails poofy, fur flying and all for logistics over the right to free speach on one side of the table.

CM

Geez, Catnip, I'm sorry that you are in such a bad place right now.
We posted at the same time and I didn't not see your reply or I would have mentioned this in my previous post to you. I am sorry that you are hurting. No one deserves what you are facing.

I understand how it feels to have someone you love turn their back on you. Believe it or now, I do. If only temporarily, it hurts to have your love thrown back at you. It is a mortal wound to the spirit in my opinion. Those kind of wounds run so deep and time, time is a painfully slow process I've learned.
Why can't we all get along and show eachother some higher level of respect, for oc as you call them, in particular?

CM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Catnip,

I thought it was worth saying, I think I also speak for M05 on this one, and some of the others who said they too were put off by the [censored] reference; I don't feel that you were thinking of anyone in particular, namely anyone here, when you used the word.

=^^= Exactly! I know! That is why I have apologized over and over. Did you miss it?

What I was and still am saying is that the word was HURTFUL to me and to the others. I think that point was made very clearly. I took offense.

=^^= I know. I am sorry.

Its not any different when you told me that my use of the word bitter, was hurtful to you. You were triggered and offended.

=^^= I wasn't really offended...it just tweaked me. Not because you said something that was probably true, but because I knew you were using it to be mean or force the issue...you know, not playing fair....using a word to manipulate or shame. And, CM...you are STILL doing it!!! But, that's OK. You can use "bitter" even if I am not allowed to use "[censored]". How's that for acquiescing to a double standard?

I didn't understand the symantics at first. Its just a word I kept saying; she is legitimately bitter by your her admissions, as I am at times, so what is the big freaking deal over its usage?

=^^- Hmmmm....you tell me?

The deal is that it hurt you and some of the others. Thats enough for me, and for GOD sake, it should be enough for you and anyone else here who thinks that its justified because your spouse had a child out of marriage. I got it. Why can't you all get it by now??

=^^- Are you kidding me? Are you serious? You don't think I got it by now? hey! What have I said over and over again here...I am sorry.

I empathized. Why can't you see that your choice of words wounded, or doused salt in my injury, and some others as well?

=^^= Shessh! I do, CM. Let's just go to lunch and have a cocktail. Trust me, it will be fun.

I don't care if you were refering to me or my situation, it gravely offended me. And I use the word gravely because that is exactly how feel about that.

=^^= I know! I feel bad about it and I won't do it agian, OK? I said I was sorry....gad.

It is always such a big ordeal when the shoe is on the other foot; I don't get it, I honestly do not get it.

=^^- Apparantly

If you and the others want consideration and care in how we ws/ow post, you must extend the same. Otherwise, this thread is a perfect example of what happens. Some progress and alot of BSing, tails poofy, fur flying and all for logistics over the right to free speach on one side of the table.

(sigh)

Now I am late for work. There was a crisis there over night and will be gone for a couple days.

Take care

Catnip =^^=

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Geez, Catnip, I'm sorry that you are in such a bad place right now.
We posted at the same time and I didn't not see your reply or I would have mentioned this in my previous post to you. I am sorry that you are hurting. No one deserves what you are facing.

I understand how it feels to have someone you love turn their back on you. Believe it or now, I do. If only temporarily, it hurts to have your love thrown back at you. It is a mortal wound to the spirit in my opinion. Those kind of wounds run so deep and time, time is a painfully slow process I've learned.
Why can't we all get along and show eachother some higher level of respect, for oc as you call them, in particular?

CM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Puuuurrrr.......Thanks, CM

Let's try to do what you suggest and strive to show each other a higher level of respect. I will. I promise. No more [censored] spawn talk...it's ugly, I admit...but effective, wasn't it? Maybe it was, but it made even me cringe when I wrote it...knew it would hurt...I can be so mean sometimes I just hate myself. But ot felt good at the time because I was hurting so much. Sorry....no more.

Catnip =^^=

BOTH my children are [censored] .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Their birth mother was, shall we say, not very discerning about the men she swapped bodily fluids with.

I do not react to the word "[censored]" as it relates to their birth circumstances. It is just one of those facts of life that we just have to get used to. They are "adopted" ... they are "[censored]" ... and sometimes, they act like jerks! LOL.... but, mostly they're just kids.

I WAS surprised, however, when our son (during therapy) shared this tid-bit about himself...."My mother is a crack ho". The therapist's shocked face was worth a million bucks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My kids are themselves, with or without labels regarding their out-of-wedlock parentage.

"THAT" word contains no negative baggage for me. They are my kids .... they came into the world via her vagina ... their father was likely unknown. They are [censored], but will inherit our kingdom regardless. (LUCKY KIDS)

Sooooooo?

These kids still are driving me crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pepper

Pepper,
How sad.

CM .... I'm not sure what you mean ... but perhaps I did not make MY meaning clear earlier.

If my children were orphans ... is that a derogatory term? "Orphan"? Should I not use that word if the subject comes up in conversation? "

My children ARE adopted .... I don't see this as derogatory. "Adopted"? If adoption is the subject, my kids proudly say they are adopted. Not a shameful thing for them.

I never have said to my kids, "You are both [censored]" ... but, if the subject came up for some reason ... I would explain what that means ... they were born to un-married parents and that's an old fashioned term for that situation.

They are MY kids .... and if they ever ask me if they are "[censored]" ... I guess I'll just need to educate them about that word ... in a similar way that they accept being adopted.

For me, the word is a NON-issue. It doesn't matter. They still are the same kids no matter what.

Pepper

CM .... One day, when my son was about 6-years old. He was riding in his car booster seat, sitting behind me. Out of the blue, he asks, "Mom, what's a dildo?"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I answer, "What do you think it is?"

He says, "I think it's a rubber [censored]."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I answer, "Yes, that's what it is. Please don't say that word. I don't like it.

He says, "OK. Can we have pizza?"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

CM .... these things (words or events we'd rather not discuss) will come up. I think it's best to be frank about what things are ... and to remain calm.

I think your child is about 6, somewhere around there.

As the kids get older (mine are 16 and 13 now) the questions are harder to answer. "Mom, why didn't my birth mother want us?" .... Things need to be explained as clearly and honestly as possible. The truth can be respected, even if it's not pretty.

Pepper

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MALC:
[QB]To Catnip
As you so eloguently speak it,out of your anger or whatever the case may be. Continue to be your true devine self and spread your wings. Yes you started the topic, I started the controversy to bring out the true feelings here. I'm glad you did this, it allowed me to reach inside of me and get honest with me. Never again will I cover up another's dishonesty. The truth shall set us all free.

[QUOTE]It bothers me a lot when some of the people here on this site make mocking comments like MOF did but compain all day long about our insensitive comments and always, always, always identify with our postings as if it is all about her. When it isn't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You know why she does it, because unconsciousely it really is about her. It's her self accusing spirit that makes her feel the need to defend her action when the post isn't even about her it's called GUILT she's identifying with what's said even if it's not to her. No matter how you slice it or dice it the truth will set you free.

Okay so it's not the word then, it's the spirit behind the word and how the word is interpreted. In this thread, I believe that we have correctly interpreted that it is meant to be a means of "lashing out" at a particular xOW...

And you are right Pepperband, the kids don't have a clue what certain words mean until an adult explains it to them because either they heard it or were called by it. Just like the term '[censored].' If you are not black and you have never been called that, then that word too would be a non issue with you because you don't know and never will know what it feels like to be called the "old-fashioned term to describe" black people.

Of course no one was lashing out at anyone personally, so of course the word is a non-issue with most who post here, because most are not 1.xOW who've been 2.pregnant out of wedlock. This is why the word can be used so freely but you have to admit, it is not something that is used in any type of friendly conversation. Who goes around calling anyone who is illegitimate a [censored] to their face? Even the BS's here have stated that they would never say it to hurt the child directly...

I guess my point is that I agree with you that the word doesn't describe how I feel about my OC either, and never will! But the word DOES hurt just like certain words hurt BS's because we know and agreed in this thread and others, it is intended to hurt, because it IS about us, even tho we have changed, moved on, and are making the best of tough situations. Betrayal will ALWAYS hurt the betrayed even BS's well into recovery for years and years.

BTDT ... thank you for your thoughts.

Words ARE so very interesting. Words can be as sharp as weapons, and "cut" deeply. There is that typing trick if you keep typing "words" ... you end up with "swords".

wordswordswordswordswordswords

It is interesting, isn't it, that Black stand-up comics can use "the N word" inoffensively in their routines, but the same audience might be offended by the same word, used with the same connotation, when spoken by a white comic????

The end result (the action) is the same if you describe "affairee" OR YOU SAY "adulterer". The end result (the action) is the same if you say "termination" OR YOU SAY "abortion". Using the kinder, gentler word, allows us to soften the meaning of the action (in our minds) but, the deed is exactly the same.

Words .... are interpreted .... actions just ARE.

"Sexual assault" sounds kinder than "rape" .... but does that wording change anything?

"Substance abuse" sounds nicer than "addiction" ... but, there is the real problem to deal with, no matter how you pastel color with a word change.

Clinton had such a way with words. He managed to sustain a sense that he was "innocent" with careful wording. But, it was a blow job, just the same ! LOL!

Pepper

Hey pepper,
Okay you win. I'm not trying to argue the facts. Not at all. I have never been one to excuse nor sugarcoat anything wrong that I have done in my past.

You're right. A fact is a fact is a fact. I am not in denial but I must think positively and believe God to shield my OC from the facts surrounding his existence in this world. We all agree that OCs are innocent, right? Right... And, the word is not meant to hurt OC, right? Right... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Words cut at people in different ways. That's all I was trying to say. There are four angles to these affairs: WS, BS, OP, OC. And I guess because I'm a mom of a grown OC, I must be an OC advocate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> So I'm clear on the facts. The facts make perfect sense to me.

I wish OC could/would post HIS opinion... He is grown, I'm sure he has one on this topic. Calm down, he won't post... I know he won't... (Gosh, darn!)

<small>[ November 16, 2002, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

Hi Everyone
To MOF
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your right, when you call others children a [censored] child because of how they came into this world, it does make me angry and yes I take offense to it.And yes I guess children could suffer later in life because of people like you who are ok with speaking of someones child. reguardless of how they came into this world. But you know what I also take offense to a group of people who advocate running away from a child they created and saying it is not their fault after all the women should have used protection.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I gave a dictionary meaning of 2 words that some found offensive. I never called anyone names.
I will deal in truth as I see it that's my reality and no one elses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take offense to every single person assuming that a woman got pregnant to trap their precious married husband. And that their poor husband is so guilty he can hardly live with himself. where the heck was all that guilt all those years he was playing, funny how they only get guilt when they get caught.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

There is guilt, oh believe me asked the BS when the WH or WW turn on there BS, with anger they are really angry at themselves. They take there anger out on the one that are close to them, the ones they love the most there BS. They are angry because they created this mess and feel trapped. Which in most cases they are trapped. From this last statement you made I'm inclined to believe you are angry because you didn't get your married man.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I take offense that you assume every mother of an other child is a bad mother. I doubt it true, I also dont believe all these women are pining away for a man who supposedly ran like a coward as soon as they messed up. why would they want them back. I think you give them to much credit and I think you obsess way to much about a woman who probably is just as tired of you and your husband</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Is that why you call MM man coward because he didn't stay with you. Are you angry becuse he woke up from the fog and realized what a big mistake he made and reconciled with his wife is that why he's a coward?
From my account most of these women are very dysfunctional. Ask these women if they are honest what was going on in there lives when they made the choice to sleep with a married man. Let me clarify something I'm not speaking to the women who have made ammends and working on there recovery with there H and who really understand the pain BS have gone through. Like BTDT,OBRATTI,
NPLH,and if I forget some of you, you know who you are. This is for the women who are still stuck in there anger because they didn't get there married man if the shoe fit wear well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you think that keeping your husband from that child hurts that woman, my guess is if your that bitter and incapable of loving a child, that woman thanks god every day you are not in her childs life. Because that is a blessing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Your true colors are showing is it really a blessing or a disaster, because you didn't get what you wanted?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and for those of you whos husband was unsure of visits, my guess is if you threw a big enough fit, he made you think he would never lay eyes on the child, but in reality he is seeing him/her every chance he gets and telling the other woman a story just like he is telling you. I know my om did.
sorry but we have seen it over and over again.
tina's situation is a great example of this.[/QUOTE

Keep on talking it amazing how someone dresses up there story now you can see the truth you talk more about OM than you do your H I wonder why are you here? I wonder do you really have a H.
I beleieve you are angry at all BS because you didn't get the MM.
Everey chance you get the opportunity you show your true colors.

[QUOTE]so malc go back to preaching about all your little spirits, MY spirit, has to go shopping.
You may respond if you wish, But I knew there was a reason I had not come to the site lately.
and for those of you are offended, by my words, remember this, this was a site for women to come here and fix marriages and for those with oc in theire lives, I have a marriage that needs fixing, I am a ws, a bs, and mother of an oc as you call them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Mof I don't preach, I share my opinion like you.
I pray that you truly get over you MM he made a choice to be with his wife. Except that and move on, so you can recovery your marriage and have a harmonious one if you are married.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">good bye, now I have removed my self from this site. Catnip pat your self on the back, you have finally accomplished on of your goals, I just dont have time for this, I do pray you people can somehow move past all the garbage and actually make your life worth while, it an eat you up be careful</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I pray that you follow your own advice and really do the same. Please for once and for all forgive yourself. You may have everyone else fooled here about your pickett fence life. I'm not moved buy this at all. You are to angry. With anger comes guilt free your mind and your [censored] will follow.
If you stay I pray you will be healed if you go than that is totally on you.I still pray for all of our healing.

ACTUALLY MALC, I HAVE TALKED ABOUT MY HUSBAND A GREAT DEAL, YOU JUST HAVENT BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO REALISE THIS.
I HAVE BEEN MARRIED 18 YEARS AND HAVE 5 CHILDREN.

I ONLY REFER TO HIM[OM] BEING A COWARD FOR AT FIRST NEGLECTING HIS DAUGHTER, HE IS NO LONGER A COWARD AND TURNS OUT TO BE A DAMN GOOD FATHER. HE KNOWS i THINK THIS, WE HAVE DISCUSSED EVERY THING AT LENGTH. I DONT TALK ABOUT MY HUSBAND AS MUCH, BECAUSE MY HUSBAND SAYS THESE WOMEN ON HERE ARE A BUNCH OF LUNATICS AND IT IS A CULT, HE READS WHEN I ASK HIM TOO, BUT IS NOT INTERESTED IN ANY OF THESE DISCUSSIONS. HE ALSO DOES NOT LIKE ME DISCUSSING HIM ON HERE, SO I RESPECTT THAT.
HOW EVER, MY HUSBAND AND I DONT HAVE ISSUES REGUARDING OUR DAUGHTER, WE ARE BOTH PRETTY HAPPY WITH HER, WE DONT FIGHT ABOUT THIS MESS OR ARGUE ABOUT IT. YOU SEEM TO FORGET HOW MANY YEARS PAST ALL THIS I AM, WHICH IN TURN WOULD EXPLAIN WHY I AM NOT AS EMOTIONAL AS SOME ARE. I ALSO HAVE BEEN A BETRAYED SPOUSE MORE TIMES THAN YOU WOULD EVER WANT TO COUNT. I AGAIN AM NOT EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT SO MANY TIMES. WHEN YOU GET TO THE POINT YOU DONT CRY ANY MORE, LET ME KNOW AND YOU WILL KNOW HOW I FEEL.

I AM NOT BITTER ABOUT OM, I NEVER PLANNED ON DIVORCING MY HUSBAND, MY GOD I SEE HIM MORE NOW THAN I DID ALL THOSE YEARS IN THE AFFAIR. We are both married, in fact I have been married twice as long as he has and have no plans on leaving my marriage. I LOVE MY HUSBAND AND AM WORKING ON MY MARRIAGE. I HAVE ALSO COME TO REALISE I WOULDNT WANT TO BE OTHER MANS WIFE, I HAVE SEEN HOW IT WORKS AND I WOULDNT WANT IT.

MOST OF THESE DISCUSSIONS DEAL WITH DEALING WITH THE OTHER PERSON AND ALL SHOULD KNOW THAT IT ISNT ALWAYS A NIGHT MARE AND SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH AND THESE VISITS CAN WORK OUT. mOST OF YOU TALK ABOUT THE OW AND DONT SAY A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT ABOUT YOUR HUSBANDS EITHER. COULD IT BE YOUR OBBSESSED WITH YOUR ow!? MAYBE OR MAYBE YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND ARE DOING OK, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING YOUR TRYING TO DEAL WITH. WHO KNOWS, I DONT PRETEND TO GUESS AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU.

I ACTUALLY TOLD OM AT LUNCH THE OTHER DAY ABOUT YOUR LITTLE THEORY, HE THOUGHT YOU WERE CRAZY TOO. BUT WE HAD A GOOD LAUGH AND A PLEASANT LUNCH, AND YES MY HUSBAND KNOWS I HAVE LUNCH WITH HIM EVERY WEEK WITH MY DAUGHTER, SOMETIMES MY HUSBAND COMES ALONG AND THEY DISCUSS BUSINESS.

SEE MALC THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE NOT GETTING, SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY PUT CRAP BEHIND THEM AND MOVE ON AND DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILDREN. SOME ACTUALLY GROW UP AND MOVE ON FROM ALL THE PAIN AND HURT AND EVERY THING THAT GOES WITH IT. i CAN NOT CHANGE THE PAST AND FRANLKY DONT WANT TO, BUT I CAN MAKE THE FUTURE BETTER AND WILL DO MY BEST TO DO SO. MY HUSBAND AND I ARE WORKING ON OUR MARRIAGE BUT THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OM. OM IS NOT MY ENEMY HE IS MY FRIEND AND THAT ISNT EVER GOING TO CHANGE. WE CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER, AND WE WILL WORK TOGETHER TO GIVE MY DAUGHTER A GOOD LIFE AND A HAPPY ONE. WE ARE HER PARENTS AND SHARE A LOVE FOR DAUGHTER. I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
IT ISNT RIGHT FOR EVERY ONE I KNOW THAT BUT FOR US IT IS A GOOD THING.
I AM TRULY SORRY YOU ARE SUFFERING AND DEALING WITH THIS, BUT I SEE KNOW REASON TO INSULT OTHER PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE HURTING, IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. wE ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, DIFFERENT AGES, [I AM PRETTY SURE I AM QUITE A FEW YEARS OLDER THAN YOU] WE HAVE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND LEAD DIFFERENT LIVES. I HOPE ONE DAY YOU CAN MOVE PAST YOUR HUSBANDS BETRAYEL OF YOU AND FIND THE HAPPINESS YOUR LOOKKING FOR. I KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE AND IT ISNT FUN. BUT IT GETS EASIER AND YOU WILL MOVE PAST IT AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE I AM SURE.

MAY I REMIND THOSE OF YOU CONCERNED ABOUT NEWBIES, PLEASE REMEMBER SOME OF THOSE NEWBIES, ARE MEN WHOS WIVES ARE THE ONE HAVING THE BABY AND JUST LIKE YOU THEY LOVE THEIR SPOUSE AND DONT WANT TO HEAR HER REFFERED TO AS A WHORE AND THE CHILD THEY HAVE GROWN TO LOVE AS A [censored] DICTIONARY OR NOT. WE ALL HAVE A DICTIONARY , I AM SURE WE COULD FIND WORDS FOR YOUR SPOUSE AND YOU AS WELL, BUT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ADULTS NOT CHILDREN. SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE YOU MIGHT BE HURTING A BS AS WELL AS JUST LITTLE OLE ME .

IF A MAN COMES HERE FOR SUPPORT AND HEARS THIS GARBAGE HE MAY NOT WANT HELP FROM HERE, BECAUSE HE DOESNT WANT YOU TALKING ABOUT HIS WIFE IN THIS MANNER, AFTER ALL WE ARE ALL HUMAN WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES... YOUR HUSBAND DID. I WOULD GUESS MANY OF THOSE OW FEEL THEY DID AS WELL.

NOW SINCE YOU ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT MY GUILT, I WILL SHARE WITH YOU AFTER ALL YOU SEEM TO WANT TO KNOW OR YOU WOULD HAVE MOVED ON BY NOW.

HOW LONG SHOULD YOUR HUSBAND FEEL GUILTY !? MY DAUGHTER IS OVER TWO YEARS OLD. DO YOU WANT YOUR HUSBAND TO SUFFER FOR TEN YEARS, 20 HOW LONG WILL BE ENOUGH SUFFERING FOR YOU ? WHEN DO YOU SAY[ENOUGH IS ENOUGH] I LOVE MY HUSBAND AND HE MADE A MISTAKE BUT HE STAYED WITH ME AND LOVES ME AND WE WILL BE JUST FINE, I WILL NOT GIVE THIS OP THE POWER TO HURT ME, BY SUFFERING ANY MORE WITH THIS ?

MY DAUGHTER IS A WALKING TALKING LITTLE GIRL NOW, NOT A BABY, HOW LONG SHOULD I FEEL GUILTY FOR A CHILD I HAVE SO MUCH LOVE FOR? MY OTHER CHILDREN HAVE WORKED THROUGH THIS , MY HUSBAND AND THE REST OF MY FAMILY HAS DEALT WITH IT. WE ALL HAVE MOVED ON IN OUR LIVES.. WHAT DO WE HAVE TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT.. THE AFFAIR!? I HAVE ALREADY MADE MY PEACE WITH THAT AND WOULD GUESS I DIDNT FEEL AS GUILTY AS I SHOULD HAVE BECAUSE OF MY HUSBANDS PAST RECORD.

WE DEALT WITH IT, BY PICKING UP THE PIECES AND MOVING ON. WE HAVE JOBS AND LIVES THAT GO ON PAST ALL THE DRAMA AND WE IN TIME LEARN TO MOVE ON, BECAUSE OUR LIVES ARE DEMANDING AND WE HAVE TO KEEP GOING. YOU CANT JUST LAY DOWN AND DIE YOU HAVE TO GET UP, SHAKE IT OFF AND MAKE THE MOST OUT OF IT, AND I DONT KNOW HOW MANY KIDS YOU HAVE, BUT WITH FIVE, I HAVE TOO MUCH GOING ON TO CRAWL IN BED AND PULL THE COVERS OVER MY HEAD AND WASTE AWAY.

WHEN YOU USE WORDS ON HERE TO HURT YOUR OW, CHANCES ARE YOUR OW IS NOT ON HERE SO YES IT IS DIRECTED AT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN AN OW. AND YES WHEN YOU REFER TO CHILDREN HAVING AN BAD SPIRIT IN THEM BECAUSE OF THEIR PARENTS... IT IS INSULTING AND AND SILLY. SO YES I TOOK OFFENSE,

DONT BE SO QUICK TO ASSUME ALL SUFFERING YOUR DOING IS COMMING FROM THE OP, YOU MIGHT FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT THESE MEN PUT A WHOLE LOT OF EFFORT IN TO MAKING THAT OTHER PERSON THINK THEY WANT THEM AND ARE IN A BAD MARRIAGE AND LEAVING , THEY DO A HECK OF A LOT OF CHASING.
I MADE A MISTAKE, I HAVE BEEN MARRIED 18 YEARS AND AT ONE TIME IN MY LIFE SOMEONE CAME IN AND MADE THINGS ALL BETTER, WAS I STUPID, YES FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS.. HAVE I EVER DONE IT BEFORE OR SINCE, NO, BUT I HAVE BEEN A BETRAYES SPOUSE MORE THAN THE YEARS I HAVE BEEN MARRIED, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU THINK YOU WILL OR WONT DO BECAUSE AT ONE TIME IN MY LIFE I SOUNDED JUST LIKE YOU.
TIME TO MOVE ON MALC, TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND DECIDE YOU WILL NO LONGER GIVE YOUR OW POWER, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOUR DOING.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT EVERY OW READING THIS CRAP, IS NOT THINKING, "OH I SHOULD FEEL GUILTY ", SHE IS THINKING, YOU SAD LITTLE WOMAN, I AM STILL GETTING TO YOU AND YOUR NOT HANDLING IT VERY WELL. SHE STILL SEES ME AS A THREAT, THAT MEANS THINGS ARE NOT SO GREAT AT HOME AND I STILL HAVE A CHANCE... THAT IS IF SHE HASNT DECIDED SHE DOESNT WANT ANY PART OF YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND AND JUST WANTS YOU TO GO AWAY AS YOU DO HER.

NOW JUST BECAUSE I HAVE CONTACT WITH OM AND WE ARE RAISING OUR DAUGHTER AS A TEAM EVEN THOUGH WE ARE NOT MARRIED TO EACH OTHER, JUST BECAUSE WE SEE EACH OTHER EVER WEEK, AND SPEAK 5 TIMES A WEEK, DOES NOT MEAN YOUR HUSBAND IS OR EVEN WANTS TO, SO TRY NOT TO GET SO UPSET, BECAUSE I DO THINGS DIFFERENT. THIS IS JUST WHAT WORKS FOR MY CHILDREN AND MY FAMILY. THEY DONT SEE HATE AND TUR,MOIL, WHEN OM COMES AND PICKS UP DAUGHTER HE INTERACTS WITH ALL THE CHILDREN FROM TEENS ON DOWN., THE HEALTHY THING IS FOR US ALL TO MOVE ON SO IT ISNT STRESSFUL ANY MORE.
I HOPE ONE DAY YOU CAN HAVE THAT AS WELL, WITH OR WITH OUT CONTACT. WHAT EVER WORKS FOR YOU, BUT ONE DAY WHEN YOU CAN WAKE UP AND YOUR FIRST THOUGHT IS NOT ABOUT YOUR HUSBANDS OC, OR OW, THEN YOU WILL KNOW YOU HAVE MOVED ON AND LIFE ISNT SO BAD AFTER ALL.
GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS.