Hi all,
I have been reading MB for the past 2 months since my D-day (september 16,2002). This is my first post so here is my situation.
Discovered that my WW had a 2x encounter that has resulted in OC (due mid January 2003). Wife was deepy stressed at the time of encounter. (court case dealing with childhood abuse - she was also experiencing a period of anoexia nervosa(stemming from childhood abuse))
Wife and I have been to M counselling on an ongoing basis - we have come to terms with how her encounter took place and have decided to remain together(this has been a god send for both of us) things have been working out very well to-date. We also have a 27 month old daughter together - married ~4 years (me 30y/o wife ~25y/o). I do not see her 'encounter' as a true affair - there was no emotional attachment etc, the stress of the moment coupled with our lack of communication led her down this path...

I have already discussed in depth with my wife that I would like to raise the OC as my own, place me on the birth cert and assume full responsibility etc.. My wife would also like this to happen 100%. The issue is that the biological farther is moving ~1500km away and would like to have access after the birth. Now I know that legally I can assume the position of raising the OC no questions asked (and without a perternity test the biological farther would not be entitled to access etc). But our delema is this: if there is contact with OM then this will have a huge impact on out marrage. I/we would prefere NO contact at all. By my wife has lingering doubts that this will come back to burn her when her/our son grows up and finds out that she/we basically stopped access.

I feel that if we raise the OC as our own with our existing daughter we can provide a loving family environment for all, but with OM being involved this would be all but impossible from my perspective - especially the disruption from splitting up the children during holiday access.

what to do????

If you are willing to raise this child as your own, then you will be the only father that child will know. A sperm donor does not make a father, bio father or not. I think if the time comes, you can explain why you kept OM out of picture to keep your family and marriage whole. And, in some respects, I am not sure if the issue even needs to be told to future child.

I say give the OM the old heave ho! Good luck.

Thanks for your thoughts. deep down I know that this is what I want, but my wife is thinking that if her child wanted to know his bio that this would breed resentment towards her:- I feel that she is starting to run scared.

I know that our marage can work but if this contact contines - even at the level of access I can see this becomming an issue that will stop us from continuing on with our lives (or at least my recovery).

I agree with you in that I will be his true farther figure (you can only know someone some much with 2-4 weeks access per year)

I just have so many concerns....

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Your wife is absolutely wrong on this. The child is not going to resent her from not allowing access to the bio-dad if this child has had a lifetime of love and devotion from you...that I know for sure.

She is probably worrying for nothing and if she and you raise this child right with kindness and teach this child for all it's life that people are imperfect and make mistakes but what is in their hearts is what is true and important...that they have the courage to make wrongs right, then this child will grow up with a gentle maturity that will open his/her heart to the understanding and kindness you have taught him/her.

It is too bad she even told XOM about the pregnancy...as far as the two of you are concerned since your have recommitted and are in recovery, it is really none of his business, especially if he is off the hook with support.

Your marriage still comes first, despite the child who comes next. Therefore, whatever it takes to make the marraige whole and intact, including and especially NO CONTACT, is what you should do to keep it together. The payoff will be the best scenario for the child as well. He/ she will have a two parents who will love it and be devoted to his/her happiness and to each other first and foremost. There are no loosers in this situation if you maintain your focus where it should be.

No contact, marriage comes first, love and devotion to child...

You could lie and say the DNA came back positive that you are the bio dad...you could change your name and move to Arizona...you could tell XOM that Wife is not really pregnant (false alarm)...you could tell him that if he backs off you won't go after support. There are lots of things, ethical and otherwise, you could do to resolve this issue. I am not condoning lies but desperate situations call for desperate measures in some situations. If you are loaded with integrity and refuse to compromise your core beliefs, then work out a reasonable solution with XOM using a third party to pick up and drop off child. You don't have to see him very often that way. Sometimes in the beginning, XOMs think they want involvement but soon begin to distance themselves from the child, which is predictable and happens often. It is better for the child not to have had contact at all rather than suffer rejection. Child support amounts are so huge these days, XOM might be willing to disappear for a release from financial obligation and overall aggravation.

Whatever you and your wife decide to do, make sure you have read all the Harley material on this site and learn the principles and learn all you can about the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) before anything is decided.

Good luck to you both

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

thanks again for your views, and I aggree whole hartdly on these points. I supose from this point I need to try and find a way of expressing this to my wife, but how can I do this without her feeling that I am pushing my point of view accross onto her?

I have been trying to get my wife to take an interest in the MB principles to no avail. I even tried printing out bits from the web site for her to read, but they were just left untouched.

After almost two years of reading this board some things still shock me. First let me say that I think it is wonderful that you want to accept and love this OC as your own child. That is highly commendable, it takes a very strong person to do that.Do what you feel is best for your marriage.

I was just saying that it surprises me though, that a lot of time the male WS that produces an OC is often complained that it was so UNFAIR that the WS had NO SAY and NO RIGHTS about the pregnancy or what was to happen after the birth (ie abortion, adoption, or giving up birth rights) and that the WS SHOULD have had some say but in this case the OM should have NO RIGHTS and NO SAY in what goes on with this child. That even though he is the bio dad, this child is none of his business. It's just surprising how sometimes we can't see the double standards.

I'm not saying you should tell the OM anything. I am saying do what you and your wife feel is best for your marriage and what you can live with. I don't have any doubt that it is in the best interest of this child to have a stable home environment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nocontact4us:
[QB]that the WS had NO SAY and NO RIGHTS about the pregnancy or what was to happen after the birth (ie abortion, adoption, or giving up birth rights) and that the WS SHOULD have had some say but in this case the OM should have NO RIGHTS and NO SAY in what goes on with this child. That even though he is the bio dad, this child is none of his business. It's just surprising how sometimes we can't see the double standards.QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely right, NC4U. It IS a double standard and it does sound absurd to say what the Betrayed and Wayward Spouse do is none of the OM's business. But it is also true!

In our case, the OW goes blithly through life, doing as she pleases and whatever she does with her child is none of OUR business. It's been made clear. She does collect her check but we have no rights, no visitation.

The reverse can be true for the XOM in Newhope's case.

I think (and this is just my own opinion) is that standard rules of etiquette that are normally a matter of course, are "called off" in time of "war" or "survival". The pregnant Wayward Spouse who has a Husband who is willing to rebuild the marriage and take on the child as his own, should be allowed to have the freedom to do so for the good of the marriage, the good of the child, and the XOM in this case should just step aside and let these people alone to build a cohesive family without outside interference and to put his own selfish desires aside. He's done enough damage for screwing around with a MW and the least he can do is disappear forever. He can give the child up for "adoption" to the WS and her husband.

Desparate times call for desparate measures. And my personal position notwithstanding, is to save the marriage first because it is the firm foundation on which to build a new beginning for everyone concerned.

Catnip =^^=

I also think that in the case when a wife gets pg with OC and the hubby decides to raise the child as his own, that the husband is prudent in thinking like that...it cuts down on the contact with the OP. While with the Betrayed wife, the OC wasn't carried by her and she has to deal with the Other Woman. It depends on how the OP is, really...if he/she is reasonable and all parties agree to contact, it can be done.

But in my experience as well from what I read on the boards(and not just this one) the OP's aren't reasonable and you have to decide what's best for all the family, children, etc. involved.

Personally, in all honesty, if I could have adopted My OC from birth and know I'd never have to deal with OW ever again, I'd consider it. But OW would never go for it and I found out when the child was 18 months old. I didn't get that chance and I was told that her biggest fear was that my Husband would sue for total custody.

In this case, with NewHope (hope I got your name right) I'm thinking he was trying to protect the future of his marriage by ensuring that The OM would not be there to disrupt the future.

From what I read correctly, your wife had only 2 pa's with him, right? No long-term emotional attachment? Then she doesn't owe him anything...now I also read that he found out about the pregnancy, right? What was his take on it? Does he want to be involved? Does he want to try to win your wife over to him? Does he really want the child? Or a chance to get your wife?

Some things to seriously consider...if he does go to court to establish paternity, and is willing to spend all that money to his rights to his half of the child, then it's pretty safe to assume that he really wants to be a part of that child's life. Then you will have to work out custody arrangements, Child support issues, holidays etc.
as well as neutral third party so that contact between OM and your wife is minimal.

It stinks all the way around and I pray that you find the right answer to suit your situation.
Keep us posted. There are people on this board who have collected CS from their OM's and will work on visitation when the child is old enough.

We're here for you. Let us know what is going on. Only you and your wife know what's best for y'all...we can only be here to cheer you on or be a shoulder for y'all...
Sending prayers,
Twiisty

I agree that if the OM knows nothing about the pregnancy then don't tell him. No harm no foul. But if he already knows that the WW is pregnant (even though I do think it would be better for the marriage and better for the child for the BH to raise the child as his own) it could be a problem if it's presented to him that his feelings about a child that is possibly half his do not matter and he has no choice in the matter, rather than trying to get him to see that it is best for all involved.

Hmmmm....NC4U...you're right. However, I truly believe that men in general (I am speaking in general terms here) do not feel the "pull" towards a child when he is not in love with the Mom or spent many months with the Mom while she was pregnant. Not because they are bad guys or insensitve, but just because they haven't developed a connection. Besides, it is my belief that a man doesn't feel that "pull" of desire to be a parent as much as his ego is involved in his making an issue about contact. And more often than not, it is GUILT and REMORSE that can inspire contact as well as the misguided assuption of "doing the right thing" while struggling with misplaced loyalties.

In cases of long term affairs, it is entirely different because a bond has been formed and an obligation has grown towards the OP and as a result, the child as well.

Just my take on it. I could be completely worng. Hasn't been the first time.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ November 12, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Dear newhope,

Here is my story. I am here as a wife whose H had an affair and an OC (and we have managed visitation, albeit only 4x a year and across 2,000 miles). I am also here as a child conceived of an affair and raised in a healed marriage.

My advice is: get rid of OM and raise this child as your own. I wouldn't lie to this child; he deserves to know the truth about his paternity. Keeping such deep secrets really breeds some bizarre family dynamics. If he asks to meet his bio-father, I think a perfectly acceptable answer is that that is something he can do as an adult. Maybe you could maintain just enough contact (through a neutral third party--an attorney?) that when this child is 18 years old they can find and meet each other. Many adopted kids (and I would suppose, many children conceived of an affair) are curious about bio-parents.

I truly (especially as an adoptive parent) don't understand the huge bias in our culture about bio parents. In effect, I think that we are telling our kids to hold themselves back from fully loving the parents who raise them because there is something better out there--bio-parent/s. While there are some things that can only be accounted for by genetics, love is not one of them.

I have no desire to know my bio-father. I have seen him a couple of times as he exists on the (way) outside fringe of my family's social circle. He doesn't know about me or doesn't admit to knowing about me. I was curious to see him as an adult since I hadn't seen him since I was a child. I wanted to know what he looked like and if I looked like him. That one time of seeing (but not speaking to him) was enough for me. I saw a man ravaged by late-stage alcoholism. I have all the father a person could need. I wish no ill-will to my bio-father but I also know that I will not regret my decision to not make myself known to him, even after it is too late and he has died. That sounds harsher than I mean it to be, but I have considered carefully that I like my decision to not contact him, but would I regret it after his death when it was no longer an available choice.

MJ

MJ

Again thanks for all your views,
I think a few more details may be warented here - WW and OM had a brief 1-2 week PA where thay where together sexually 2 times, obviously the OC was conceived on one of these encounters. I know that the OM was raised in a broken marrage as his father left him at 18months and he didn't have a father figure as a child.

There was no emotional connection between the two of them never has been any at all - this really stresses my WW as she is carrying a child that was not conceived from love - like our existing child. From a guys perspective I know that he was just getting his leg up(he is only 23y/o).

I have finally organised a meeting with both my wife and OM for next Monday (OM has been refusing to meet with me since D-Day) I have previously met with OM on one breif occourance prior to my D-Day (In my home!)I have assured him that I will not be violent towards him as he is obviously expecting a huge serving - he is also worried because he knows that I have been doing Martial Arts for the past 17 years and if I did want to be violent there would be nothing that he could do about it - but I'm not that way inclined.

I have e-mailed and SMS'ed the OM over the past 2 months so there has been limited communications between me and the OM. I have expressed my views to him again yesterday via e-mail saying that after Monday's meeting I would prefere NIL contact and NIL financial support from him. I also expressed to him that I am not taking this point for my own gains, but for the stability of my family environment. OM phoned my WW this AM to say that if all I wanted to talk to him about was to get him to 'bugger off' then there was no point in the planned meeting. I have asked for the meeting to try an iron out specific issues that need addressing i.e.:
How OM and myself will handle the fact this I would be the true father figure in our Son's life(we know the sex of the OC)

How visitation say 2x year would impact not only myself but also the separation of both children in our family. Also the fact that I don't think it is fair to 'off load' a new born or young child onto someones door step that they don't know from a bar os soap. - I especially don't want my WW spending time at his place so that the OC has his mother arround. - I have already laid down ground rules with my WW that this is not an option from my perspective.

also child support - if he wan't access he will be paying this. I know that OM works as a Registered Nurse in ICU for a childrens hospital (same hospital as WW!!) so he isn't on a large salary - I don't really think that OM realises that he will be losing ~25% of his take home salary at a minimum - he has been commenting on a 50/50 financial arrangement as well. Schooling is also an issue as our existing daughter will be attending private school, an expensive and draining experience for all - and that there is no way in hell that he could afford to raise the OC in this style with his salary (schooling would cost more than his entire yearly salary)
I know that $$ is not the issue - I can support the OC 100% without a problem but it is his seemingly ill-inform attitude that really bugs me (OM is in my opinion immature and over his head)

At this point I know that my WW has not made up her mind. I managed to get her to read this thread last night - just so that she could see that what I am thinking and wanting (NO ACCESS) is not just my views - but other's with informed knowledge as well. I have asked her to put off making a decision untill after the baby is born (~2.5 months away) as I don't think that she can think strait at the moment. I have put forward the option to her that we could ask the OM to keep his contact details up to date with us and IF we decide that he can have access we would contact him. I didn't really get a responce from my WW on this - just a small nod of her head.

I can see that my WW is getting frustrated over this but in all honesty unless I commit a huge LB with an ultimatum like the following "you are putting OM feelings and desires into your decision makeing process as a priority, how about putting our marriage as your first priority - do you want a secure marrage or one on the rock for the next 20 years?!?!".

I really don't want to give her a ultimatum - I want her to make up her own mind ,otherwise this will come back on me too. I know that I have given a whole lot in the recovory process to date, even comming to the point of wanting to take on the OC as my own - I have not been doing this to show my WW that i'm a do-gooder its because I want to do this for me, us and our family, but from my perspective if my WW is not able to put US first on this what real hope can I have?


Lost and looking for answers....

Newhope
The law is with you on this one. Although it varies from state to state, in most if not all states YOU are the "legal father." The ONLY WAY your legality can be challenged is if YOU raise it as an issue--the OM CANNOT interfer in an intact marriage seeking joint custody of the child even though he is the biological father. These sorts of challenges have been taken to state supreme court levels and the "best interest of the child" is what is weighed. Clearly no judge is going to deem it "best interest" to disrupt an intact M w/a sibling just for visitation from bio father. Maybe it's unfair to the OM but such is the case. I agree w/Catnip--lie abt the results of a paternity test and say it showed 99.9% that you are the bio. dad and lay it all to rest. On the other hand, I've seen cases where a H is like you, accepts the OC as his own and raises it and THEN the couple get D and the H challenges his paternity so that he doesn't have to pay CS for the OC afterall--the Hs tend to win these cases even though you wouldn't think that they would b/c courts also recognize a man's right NOT to pay CS for a child that is not biologically his. THEN they go after the bio father for CS and DNA testing and all that. But that's a different story. Good luck and forget abt the OM and the EMA and rebuild your family. As for telling the truth one day to your new son/daugh--I would when they are older, but that's my opinion. Good luck!!!

p.s. CANCEL your meeting w/OM and talk to a family law attorney to find out your rights in your state--you are giving the OM WAY too much power in all of this--he really doesn't have any legal rights to interfer w/your family. Are you certain your W is telling you the entire truth abt her emotional involvment w/this OM? Is she pushing for all of these meetings etc. or would she also like him to just go away? Again, there is NO NEED to bring him into the pregnancy--this child is legally YOUR CHILD--it is a LEGITIMATE child born into an INTACT MARRIAGE, and YOU are its legal father. I say NO CONTACT W/OM pronto--sure it's sad for him, but he will find his own W one day and start his own family. And your child can seek him out one day as an adult if that's the route you decide to go in. I agree w/Maryjane, lying will cause problems w/in the family.

Hi All,
time for an update...
I have returned from the meeting with OM and WW.I must say that finally meeting OM has resolved alot of my 'unknowns' and is finally allowing me to move on with my life. The meeting was quite civil, basically my wife and I had decided prior to the meeting that we would raise the OC and place me on the birth cert, ask no financial support from OM, not grant him any custody but instead allow him to visit on our terms - they being he would need to travel to our city and then only have access for a few hours during the day(OM has distant family here). OM stated that he feels that he should step aside and take a 'long lost uncle role', he did not feel that it was appropriate that he interfere in me being the OC dad/father.

I have made contact with family lawer to clarify our legal standpoint and found the following:
- I can assume the legal father if I wish
- don't need to get a paternity test done if I don't wish to contest anything.
- If OM wanted to contest(and he dosn't) my wife cannot be made to provide DNA samples.

OM says thay he would only wish to visit his son maybe 1/year at most - but would prefer to just get updates. I don't really think that he will maintain physical contact, maybe initally but my gut feeling is that he will drift off into the either (maybe that's my wishfull thinking!)
All in all I think that this has been the best possible resolution to my situation, my wife did not need to make the difficult decision of cutting off her son from his bio dad. As my wife said to me "at last we can move on with our lives".

Now we have a few years to plan on how to explain all this to our OC and daughter. We both know that we can't hide the truth - too many family members/ friends also know the truth.

Just goes to show that sometimes things can go our way....
NewHope.

I'm so glad you have come to an amicable solution for now. Please don't worry too much about revealing the truth to the kids...they should be at least a decade old before this kind of hard truth is revealed. There are several wonderful ways to do this with some compassionate coaching from people right here like BTDT and Mary Janes. I bet they might have some suggestions to tuck away for the right moment....years from now. Plenty of time to heal in the meantime.

I encourage the two of you to study all of the Harley policies and principles and incorporate them into your daily lives. Study together and read together and work on meeting each others' emotional needs and focus on your recovery.

Good luck and God bless

Catnip =^^=

I disagree with the other posters who say the child won't resent his/her mother for the situation. If she keeps the child from seeing her father, who willingly wants to see her, there will probaly be some resentment. Honesty is always the best policy. It would probaly be best for the OM to establish paternity from the beginning so you can start taking child support payments. That could be money saved the would put him/her into college.

I'd also be concerned how the OC will react to you if/when they find out that they're born of an affair. OC will probaly lose a lot of respect for both of you if he/she finds out later in life. I think the best thing do to would be to work it with the OM. All of this is just my opinion, of course. I'd also wonder how you know the child isn't yours.....

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Cavuto ]</small>