I must admit I'm a tad timid to post here tonight with all the "firey" discussion of late. But I'm kinda in crisis mode and a little desperate for some answers, so I know, "Post At My Own Risk." (I'm teasing.) Just don't call me a whore and my child a [censored] spawn and we'll get along fine. (Bad joke, I know.)

OK - onto my dilemma... (I also posted this in the recovery section.)

I'm so ashamed to admit this, but I still think about OM. I just don't get it. My H is wonderful, has been wonderful, and will continue to be wonderful. I have little gripes from time to time, but overall, I really have nothing to complain about. He's a good provider, is faithful to me, accepted me back with open arms after my affair, loves our child (product of my affair), wants to have another child with me...

But if the phone rings and no one is there, who do I think it is? If I'm alone with my thoughts, 9 times out of 10 (ok, 7 or 8 times out of 10) I'm thinking about guess who? Today I was mad at H for some miscarriage of justice and who do I want to go sobbing to?

I know this makes you sick. It makes me sick. Its been over a year - more infact, since we went to NC. But I'm wondering about him and how he's getting along with his W. I wonder if he's thinking about me - Thinking about our son. If he (gasp) misses me?

This is so stupid. And I hate to admit this. But if I'm going to go forward in my recovery and somehow get past this, I need to admit it. And for some reason, I feel like I need to admit it to you. Maybe because I know that you'll give it to me straight. I may not like it, but I know I can count on you to tell me like it is.

Please be a little gentle though. Thanks.
Noplacelikehome (and I really do mean that)

Well, are you and your H really (REALLY) concentrating hard on meeting each other's top 5 emotional needs? Perhaps it is time to review the questionnaire together? Bit by bit... You know, I find that over time, things change and it is good to keep reviewing and updating the questionnaires--EN & LB to make sure that everything is maintained.

Try that--print out the questionnaires and revisit them, if you have not done it recently.

Maybe it is time to gently discuss this with your husband so you can pray together, if you do, or at least he knows you are feeling vulnerable. Perhaps there is some other way you could let your husband know that you are having poisonous thoughts and you need a little extra _____ (whatever it is that you need).

I don't think that you are really missing the xOM because you are well into your recovery and you know all the pain that xOM brings with contact...

If something inside of you just wants to know whether or not xOM still thinks of you, I'm sure he does, just as your H probably still thinks of your affair! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I would suggest that each and every time you are tempted to even think about xOM, that you try to contact your H and talk to him or make his existence in your life be more real. Your thoughts of xOM are pure fantasyland. Don't you think? I'm sure xOM had his flaws. Maybe you should list all xOM's flaws every time he comes up in your mind. I'm sure he behaved badly at times, remember those times whenever thoughts of him come to your mind.

Get your bible out and read about the story of David and how adultery ruined his life and the life of his baby boy with Bathsheba as well as Bathsheba's husband. Read about that and quit meditating on thoughts of xOM. That's more dangerous than you realize!

It's good that you can admit it here, but why can't you admit it to your H? Are you guys lacking in the Openness & Honesty department? Are you afraid to talk to your H about it? Do you think you are "protecting" him? I am not trying to come down on you, just wondering...

Another thing I was wondering... What was the injustice done to you? Is there any way to get your H to understand how you felt? Tell me what H did to you? Perhaps that is the real problem that needs sorting out??? Ya think?

NoPlacelikehome,

I don't usually post in this section but do come by to see how old friends are doing. You said something in your post that perhaps is telling.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H is wonderful, has been wonderful, and will continue to be wonderful. I have little gripes from time to time, but overall, I really have nothing to complain about. He's a good provider, is faithful to me, accepted me back with open arms after my affair, loves our child (product of my affair), wants to have another child with me...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you didn't say is what you feel about your H. You are grateful for him, but what do YOU feel about your H?

Personally, I suspect the OM is your mental escape hatch. Someplace to go when you don't want to deal with things. But, there is no way you are going to forget him, what should go is the intensity of feelings that you had for him. What should be growing is your intensity of feelings for your H.

You don't mention much about your H, that you seem very attached to. I would like to suggest as BTDT did, that you review the needs list for both you and YOUR H. Why him? Because while his love for you appears to be strong, he may not feel intensily for you either. He is protecting himself, he is not getting needs met, whatever.

I am guessing here but life in your house is just sort of going along as it does in most houses with a baby in it. What you may want is the excitement that you last had with OM, hence you go there. What you NEED is to get some excitement back with your H, and a way to do that is to get HIM excited. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It will infect you as it comes to him.

Something to think about hope it helps.

God Bless,

JL

NP,

I sometimes feel the way you have described in your post.
There is nothing wrong with you. You loved this person and that feeling does not just go away.Soemtimes it feels as if you've gotten over it and have put the relationship in the past, then suddenly all those feelings come flooding back. Just know, there are fleeting and they will pass.
I heard something recently that made alot of sense to me. During a discussion on marriage, someone told me that often times, people get into relationships/marriage before they have become whole, complete individuals. What happens, is those people then look to their mate, to every relatinship partner they ever have, to complete them. This cycle repeats itself until that person understands that they must become a whole person alone.
I know that is true for me. It helps me to understand that there are some things that noone can do for me. Certainly not ex-OM.
JL is right. You can work to bring back some of the excitement in your marriage and reconnect on a deeper level with your H. However, I also found that in cooperation with that effort, came the need for me to get in touch with the reality that no one can make me a whole person, I had to do the work to get there and look within, not outward.

CM

Hi again,

Everyone has offered you great advice, but I don't feel they have all the info, as I've followed you from "In Recovery" where the post was a little different.

You stated:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He ran away from our child and doesn't want anything to do with him. He fed me lines and lines of bullshyt - that I swallowed - and I realize now it was just to get me to go to bed with him. I was actually going to leave my H for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel this is pertinent info. for those that want to help you. It is the argument for how you feel and what your alternatives are.

JL What do you think?

Also, as CMirand pointed out:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also found that in cooperation with that effort, came the need for me to get in touch with the reality that no one can make me a whole person, I had to do the work to get there and look within, not outward. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to work on yourself and learn to love yourself. You'll find at that point these feelings for OM will no longer be a problem.

H&S

<small>[ November 18, 2002, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Hurt & Sad ]</small>

NPLH,

Have you made a list, written or mental, of all the things OM has done to you that hurt you?
I did this. I put 2 lists together. One for H and one for OM. Positive and negatives if you will. When I finished, I just stared at it, scratched my head, and asked myself, why do I care for him anymore? He doesn't deserve my frienship nor my concern. My H deserves to be crowned king, yet I feel as though I had treated him like the jester instead and he did not deserve that. No matter what he had done to hurt me in the past.
When you met OM, you and he were not available to eachother fully. Whether it would have been a perfect union if you met at the ideal time of your life is meaningless at this point. All you have is the here and now. The truth is more than likely that you two hurt eachother quite a bit and your list will verify this truth.
Rather than idealize him now, why not remind yourself the reality of your relationship with him and who he really is and what he stands for.

If he called you today and asked you for forgiveness, would you be able to give it?

CM

BINthereDUNthat,

I think you're right that H and I need to revisit the ol' questionnaires. I think the results will be very telling and serve as a springboard for further discussion. Perhaps I can be more open and honest with him on paper.

I just don't want to hurt H any more than I already have. I'm afraid to admit to him that I still think about OM after all this recovery time because he'll think, "what's the point, no matter what I do or how good we seem to be doing, she's still thinking about him!"

I do have a "tell off" letter I wrote to OM a while back that I never sent. I think I need to dig it out and revisit that too. Not to send, just to remind myself of how mad I can get and how much he did to hurt me. I think time lessens the memory of pain and in this case its working against me because like Just Learning said,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I suspect the OM is your mental escape hatch. Someplace to go when you don't want to deal with things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very true. My nature is one that tries to avoid conflict at all costs. Just like a turtle withdrawing into its protective shell, that's me. And I think because I'm like that, I don't want to hurt anyone else, either. Even if it means avoiding the truth. I'd rather just sit and wallow in my own sufferings than tell H I still think about OM and make him feel somehow inadequate - especially after all he's done for me. (This is probably one of the very things that drew me into an affair in the first place. I should have voiced to my H that I felt he was neglecting me instead of just suffering through it, ultimately succumbing to OM's advances.)

Anyway, on a positive note...H is wisking me off for 4 days for our 11th anniversary in February. He said to pack one bag with warm clothes and one bag with cold because he's not telling me where we're going. But we'll have no baby, (not sure how I'm going to deal with that), no dogs, no house to run, no meals to prepare, no 2AM feedings...Just H and I. I can't remember the last time we had time to ourselves like that and I'm really looking forward to it. Not to escape, but to reconnect without distractions.

Thanks for all the good advice. Keep it comin'!
Noplacelikehome

CMiranda,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...often times, people get into relationships/marriage before they have become whole, complete individuals. What happens, is those people then look to their mate, to every relatinship partner they ever have, to complete them. This cycle repeats itself until that person understands that they must become a whole person alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel this is a big part of my problem. Which is probably why I could not leave H, (good thing) but also maybe why I have trouble shaking OM (bad thing). Because I found part of myself in them. I probably look to H too much to complete me, therefore feeling lost and lonely when he has things to do and isn't around as much as I'd like. Then when OM stepped on the scene, I wrapped up so much of myself in him; more than was healthy (as if any part of that relationship could have been.)

As usual, CM, thank you for your invaluable insight, as well as your gentle way of communicating it.

My goal now is to focus on becoming a whole person - alone. Any idea(s) on how to do that?

Noplacelikehome

NPLH,

I clicked the reply button to your thread and I'm not quite sure what I can add to the wonderful advice you've already received.

I guess I wanted to somehow tell you how much more hurt you H will be if he stumbles across the information about you thinking about xOM.

God forbid he run across this website or something.

I found out that my H visited OW long after affair and contact ended. I was devastated. OW called to smear it all over my face.

Later after days of throwing things and many many tears, we finally talked. He told me the visit was number one for closure but also to satisfy an urge that he could still "have" her if he wanted.

Although nothing sexual or physical happened just the thought of him in her presence infuriated me.

In talking with other men they concur that the male ego is a powerful thing and sometimes men just need to know they could, even if they don't want to go there.

In retrospect my H has learned that this was very very hurtful to me and has vowed to never put his egotistical desires (no matter how innocent) above our POJA.

I tell you, these Harley principles and approaches keep evolving in meaning and practicality in my marriage. I'm sure in other people's too.

I guess what I'm trying to say to you is ... it may not be the OM that you are secretly desiring ... it may be the adventure, the closure, the completion of you ... all or some or more of the things the other posters have suggested.

Your homework is to figure out what the draw is, formulate a plan to eliminate the desire, and finally discuss the reality with your H.

Remember that when you have this talk with him to let him know you have NO desire to go back to this man but you are longing for "________" and that's what he represents.

You are very right. This talk may hurt him, but how you deliver the info, and how you communicate your needs to him will make the difference in how the message is received.

I think if your husband is a reader of MB principles and practices he will understand that the process of rebuilding and maintaining a relationship involves constant work. And he will be better prepared for dealing with your needs and feelings. He will also appreciate your honesty and willingness to attack the problem head on with him by your side.

Who better to help you fight your deamons than your new best friend, lover and lifemate. Your husband.

Good luck,
Z.

CRINGE........

OUCH..........

wondering if ever gonna be worth it now........

Thinking there is a woman out there that will truly want me for me because it really doesn't matter to me "why" you have these thoughts, just that you do, and another woman won't!

It's not so much the thought of you thinking of him(cringe again). It's this line from your original that adds NAPALM to a bonfire thought i have been having that says,"even if the ULTIMATE perfect textbook recovery happens, do i even want that?"......ponder, ponder, think.......

" If I'm alone with my thoughts, 9 times out of 10 (ok, 7 or 8 times out of 10) I'm thinking about guess who?"

I thirst for true honesty these days, and if that isn't it, then pigs are growing wings this second and learning to fly......

I respect you from reading your posts, and this is in no way a slam directed to you. You have been in "recovery" for 1 year, and this is what i can expect???

the way I read your post, I assume this thought pattern isn't a recent phase or a moment of weakness. This is a life pattern. Your former posts are chalked full of great stuff about how grateful you are and how wonderful he is to take you back, but where is the fire for him? You know, the bite your bottom lip when you think of H out of raw desire for his body or his passion for you? The getting wet just thinking of him or the previous nights passionate unbridled roll in the hay with your hot sexy H? The cute little looks exchanged by lovers in love in public places?

My WW and I have discussed her "giving" her sex and passion to OM. Only one man can have these parts of her she says, and I believe that. She feels she is cheating on OM if she has sex with me and especially if she orgasms(which is rare since PA started). Like he handles those parts of her life, and I take care of others. I want and I think I need a wife who "allows" me to take care of ALL her "parts" that a man is responsible for. I am fully aware that our "recovery" phase hasn't even started yet, and won't start until NC is decided and I actually believe she is telling the truth in regards to NC, but your post has painted a very dim picture of me ever being the true "man of her dreams" ever again.

peace
tim

Zebra Baby,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it may not be the OM that you are secretly desiring ... it may be the adventure, the closure, the completion of you ... all or some or more of the things the other posters have suggested.

Your homework is to figure out what the draw is, formulate a plan to eliminate the desire, and finally discuss the reality with your H.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you - that's just what I needed to hear. I think I just get caught up in all the guilt over my thoughts that I can't see my way through it sometimes. I'm relieved to learn that its not really OM that I'm longing for - its what he represented - and the key is to identify that and communicate it to H, then both of us incorporate that into our M.

Hbby,

I almost didn't post for fear that you would read it and have the reaction that you did. I do not want you to lose hope because of what I'm going through.

The fact remains that I chose H. I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. I chose him to be the father to my child.

Yes, I still think about OM. But like Zebra said, I think its more of a "figuring out" kinda thing. I'm a thinker - I need to know the why's of things. Why I did this, why I do that. I think because this relationship was so out of character for me, I'm still trying to figure out all the why's and wherefore's. Also, because I've had a life altering transition occur in my life (the birth of a baby) I'm still digesting all that's happened.

Please don't question if its worth it. If you love your wife and she loves you, then of course it is.

As far as your question about the fireworks... (this is maybe where our situations differ) my H and I never really had the fireworks. He's much older than I (13 years) and although we've enjoyed a nice physical life during our marriage, it hasn't been a consistant thing, nor what Hollywood movies portrey. Its been a sporadic, pleasant, sometimes frustrating, part of our married life together. Years back I felt we had to "work" on that part of things and over the years I've just come to accept and appreciate it for what it is.

I think part of the problem with me and OM is that we had the fireworks and passion. But it was wrong. And its taken me some time to get to this place but I'd rather have it be nice and right over fireworks and wrong any day of the week.

Please don't let my situation discourage you.

Noplacelikehome

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Noplacelikehome:
<strong>CMiranda,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...often times, people get into relationships/marriage before they have become whole, complete individuals. What happens, is those people then look to their mate, to every relatinship partner they ever have, to complete them. This cycle repeats itself until that person understands that they must become a whole person alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel this is a big part of my problem. Which is probably why I could not leave H, (good thing) but also maybe why I have trouble shaking OM (bad thing). Because I found part of myself in them. I probably look to H too much to complete me, therefore feeling lost and lonely when he has things to do and isn't around as much as I'd like. Then when OM stepped on the scene, I wrapped up so much of myself in him; more than was healthy (as if any part of that relationship could have been.)

As usual, CM, thank you for your invaluable insight, as well as your gentle way of communicating it.

My goal now is to focus on becoming a whole person - alone. Any idea(s) on how to do that?

Noplacelikehome</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NP,

I'm also working on this step. I feel that I got into my A and stayed in it for this reason, just as you described in your reply to me.
I feel you've taken a giant step forward by nc with your -exOM. You've severed most your dependence on him. When I feel lonely or vulnerable or if I have a conflict with my H, my first reaction still, emotionally, is to call my -ex for emotional support. He was my cheerleader for so long..That is where my list comes into play. I remind myself that he felt like my cheerleader but he was a facad. He was living a double life for alot of years and was not the man I wanted to believe he was. I look at all of things he's done/said that hurt me over the years and that alone has been a great deterient in my feeling of wanting to call him.
You are right, between both of them, I felt complete. Now, I have a big void that needs to be filled. I'm not sure how I will fill in the gap. I find that focusing more on myself,my needs and my marriage and family, I have little time for thoughts of him or taking trips down memory lane.

You are very fortunate that your -ex leaves you alone and does not contact you. Although you may feel rejected, I'm sure he feels he needs to stop contact in order to maintain his current existence and accept that you and your H are raising this child together.

I have a less than considerate -ex; where he continues to try to contact me. I no longer answer my phone when I see him call but it is difficult to deal with when I feel vulerable and less than complete still.

You are doing a fabulous job of getting your life together NP, keep moving ahead and do not be frustrated with a few bumps in the road. We all have them.

With love,
CM

Dear NPLH,

"Too much thinking, not enough distraction." That's what they told us at the hospital when I spent some time there recovering from the depression I felt after learning of my husband's A.

Think of it like a kid's wooby or twe-twe--pet names in our families for [no, not the naughty bits--you dirty-minded people] a child's favorite comfort item--a security blanket, favorite doll. Do you use thoughts of you ex to calm yourself or divert yourself from difficult moments in your marriage? Is there a pattern to these thoughts? Are they always after a small argument or when being a new mom feels overwhelming?

Maybe you could think of some alternative. I am a firm believer in turning our thoughts away from things that are no good for us. I spent a certain amount of time hating exOW and then I decided that I was not going to waste my energy any longer. Whenever thoughts of her came up, I said a very short prayer--just two sentences--and turned my thoughts to something else. Often I had to turn my thoughts over and over again before something else caught hold.

My advice to you is---just don't go there. While reminiscing of your ex-lover might be normal, it is certainly not going to help your recovery. Just like my hatred of exOW was normal but not good for me.

MJ

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>