Gemini, you mentioned emailing Steve a while ago about his thoughts on visitation with an OC. Could you write more about what his thoughts were and what he said?
I think some of us might be interested in hearing this.

thanks.

uw,

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: whatif? ]</small>

whatif, thanks for your reply.

Now, here is what comes up for me. You said Steve said you could stay in marriage or not, but H would resent you and feel awful about himself if couldn't have contact

Let's flip it around. Say a BS will feel resentment and hate the marriage and WS if contact continues. Should the WS not have contact to ease this situation-or decide marriage must end?
Thoughts anyone?

Unhappywife here it is. I asked him his thoughts on the matter. We did not have visitation, but I wanted to know his thoughts.

From: bharley@marriagebuilders.com (Willard F. Harley, Jr.)
To: (took out my address)


Debi,

The position I take on children born of an affair is that since
restoring a marriage requires an unfaithful spouse to never see or talk
to the lover, it's too risky for visitation. I've witnessed time and
time again where the visitation has triggered the affair all over
again. Besides, any contact with the former lover is usually a great
offense to the betrayed spouse.

My advice is to avoid contact with the child until he or she reaches
adulthood. Otherwise there is too much risk of your marriage coming to
a tragic end.

Best wishes

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <bharley@marriagebuilders.com>
Received: from rly-xe01.mx.aol.com (rly-xe01.mail.aol.co

I see whatif? received another response. Perhaps because her H refused to part ways w/oc.

I know that my marriage wouldn't have survived oc visits.

Hope it helps, Harleys answer to me was what I needed to know because in my heart ow hadn't given up hope and I wasn't going to go on that merry-go-round for anyone.
I didn't create the mistake and I sure as heck wasn't going to include it.

It was less painful for me to move on w/o H rather than see oc/ow at any time in the future.

And you know after all the wild happenings w her we just agreed it was destroying us as a couple.

Heck, I saw enough of her as my friend (?).....

Love
Debi

uw,

What gem has posted is the general MB guideline---the restoration of marriages is much more difficult when the OP is anywhere near the wayward spouse---Harley recommends moving, if necessary, to eliminate this casual contact. And in the case of an OC, he would suggest that there be no contact with the OP or OC.

However, that's the "general" rule. When you get into counseling with Steve, you pay for his specific attention and help with formulating a plan that will hopefully allow YOUR marriage to recover successfully. Steve is going to go by the book as a first pass, but in the case of a 'difficult' WH, he will attempt to bring the couple to an agreement (maybe not enthusiastic) that will allow the husband to be involved with the OC, but keep the OW away from the situation. That's usually mediated by the wife. Again, it's not ideal for a marriage, but it can be successful, if everyone plays nice.

And then, in MO5's case, she has contact with the OM, and this apparently works OK for both marriages. So it's not impossible to have contact, either. But statistically speaking, the odds of your marriage surviving are better without the contact, especially during the first years of recovery.

K
I agree with you, I can see where it would be difficult, I tried in the beginging for my husband to be the mediator, He wanted no part of it, said it wasnt his job, Infact I am the only person who wanted it that way. But as time has passed my husband has become more involved and is in fact many times the person who talks with om about visits.

Getting 4 people to agree isnt always easy, little things like om and his wife wanted her ears peirced, My husband said absolutely not, so I stuck by him and said, I am sorry H says NO. and they agreed, because it is a little thing, give and take on all parts. But heck yeah it would be eaiser if we didnt have to . I can see where that would hurt a marriage, thats why I ask h when ever I make a decision reguarding her and include him in that, after all he parents her 80 percent more of the time than om.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by unhappy wife:
<strong>whatif, thanks for your reply.

Should the WS not have contact to ease this situation-or decide marriage must end?
Thoughts anyone?</strong>[/QUOTE

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: whatif? ]</small>

When I counseled with Jennifer Harley Chalmers, she said that in her line of work, the marriages that were most successful were the ones that had no contact---PERIOD---but if the couple, by POJA agreed to contact, that the wife or neutral third party were the contact between ex-ow and the married couple.

In our case with it being a three night stand and all and the nature of their relationship to begin with, it was agreed that no contact is best for us.

It's all what works best in every unique situation....

Twiisty

I thought I'd also step in to say that as a WS, it has been emotionally debilitating for me to be contacted by my ex-om. I can't say the no contact with the child is the best choice, but as K said, unless everyone can play nice, and emotionally deal with it, it won't work. I have had to stay far, far away from my ex-. Hearing his voice was almost as bad as seeing his face. For me anyway, for now. I predict, forever. The biggest source of confusion has been dealing with how to handle the child issues. Having realized that our emotional well being has been as important as the child in this case, staying away from my OP is all that I do to stay on the path I've chosen, with no time to look back. He, the OP, only adds confusion to my life and the choice I made to live it the right way.

CM

CMIraNDA, your post sounds so honest. Good for you.

I agree-one of the most difficult things for me in all of this, amongst many, is contact with OP. I never invited the OP into my life, nor would I ever had I known of A. NOw I always feel as if this OP wants to interfere with my life, personally, economically, emotionally, etc. Why? I don't want her in it. She is not my friend, nor my H's friend.

YOur willingness to stay away from your OM speaks volumes of your desire to keep marrige intact. Good for you.

Amen.