Dear Unsure,

Your story reminded me so much of something my H used to say. Whenever I would get weepy and need him to remind me that he loved me, he would say "I'm here aren't I. There is nothing you could do to hold me here if I wanted to be with the OW, but I am here with you, while you are steadily kicking my butt! Doesn't that count for something?"

Of course, since that was long ago and I was not nearly as enlightened as I am now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , I would always tell him that basically it didn't mean a thing.

My thinking has changed so much. I now realize that he was always committed to the marriage. Men simply don't think like us. They can love us and be unfaithful at the same time -- they can separate the true commitment from the physical relationship with the OW.

So, yes, it does mean a lot if they stay because it is not easy living with us after the discovery of the affair. They have to really want to be here to cope with the emotions and the guilt that we put them through.

I always felt that your H was committed, but you had an extraordinary amount of anger and hurt, Unsure, if I recall correctly. Only time could cure the problem.

I am so glad that you are communicating bettter with your H. I used to talk to my H in a detached way, as if it was a friend telling me about his life. Just like your H, some of the things he would say hurt so much, but I kept my perspective and listened objectively. That was when I learned the most about what he really wanted, and who he really was.

Sounds like things are under control and headed in the right direction. I could not be happier for you, particularly because I did worry about you so many nights.

love,
heavenly

Isn't HeavenlyBody well uh....HEAVENLY??????

Catnip all kidding aside. You have helped me so very much! Don't go anywhere! I'll always need slapped from time to time lol! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Heavenly Happy Birthday!!! Helps me to know d-day isn't as ugly as before...also S birthday the 25th! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Unsure you are wonderful. You tell it like it is w/honesty! Love your approach to things! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Happy_Girl!!!! So nice to know you are on your way!!!! Best wishes with Abbi!!....missed ya honey! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dear, dear angelia....come here often to help you know you are NOT CRAZY!!

H's betrayal takes a long recovery period.
It all depends on if the H you married is still there among the "fog" etc!!

Usually H is so greatful to have regular life back! I know I was glad to have it back!

If not there is a plan for you that God has not revealed yet! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Love all of you...love hearing about you!

2 years into recovery and starting year 3!!!!!!

love
Debi

<small>[ November 30, 2002, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Dear Catnip,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is so wonderful to have you back! When all the old-timers left and it was just Jenny and me crusing the board, I was embarrassed I was still here, thinking it meant I hadn't recovered enough or I was still stuck in the past or a big screwed up mess as implied by some OW's, but while there may be a small measure of truth to that, most of my posts were in response to someone else's drama. I also felt that since I had received most of my healing from this board that I felt it was my obligation to stick around and offer whatever I could to newbies. Instead it seemed I would just get caught up in the wars. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think there is such a thing as being stuck in the past when it comes to the experience we had. It changes us. In my case, it has made me much more sensitive to other people's needs. I think the same is true for you Cat.

I have been appalled at the lack of information on dealing with OCs. There are no books to read, there are no guidelines, except on this forum. It is like a dirty little secret that everyone keeps hidden. But look at this Board, the number of people experiencing this problem is growing and there is no where for them to turn. Surviving the experience makes us want to share what we have learned and to help others navigate through the intense pain of this situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bipolar said that if I didn't enter the ring to defend Betrayeds who didn't have the skills or energy to do battle due to their confusion, pain, whatever, the Opposition's words could do a lot of harm to wounded souls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kiss that man for being right on target. There is no doubt that some people have an incredible ability to treat the OC and the ex-OW /ex-OM as part of their extended family and live happily. Those people should be commended for rising about the pettiness of the affair. But, I believe those are rare cases. The great majority of adults in this situation do not act very adult. OPs are often intrusive and exhibit behaviour that endangers the marriage. That cannot be allowed because our basic goal here is "marriage building".

I would shudder sometimes when I read advice that was obviously only relevant for one rare individual in one moment in time that was said as if it was the gospel for the masses. I always try to be as general as possible because it is up to every individual to make their own choices adn to fit the pieces to their individual story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not an expert by any means, but I felt it was my obligation to stick around and give back some of what I received. The people here have become family and what I find amazing is how much they have all come to mean to me. Even the mean ones...hahaha. We share with each other our most intimate and personal details of our lives, and I know I would just miss everyone way too much if I left altogether. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It feels good doesn't it, to give back what we have received? I am so grateful to so many of the people on this Board. If I can make one person in pain LOL, or stop one person from making a bad decision, then I consider that a tremendous victory for God's side.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There will come a time where we all have to leave here permanently and close the last chapter on this book of ours, but that time has not come for me yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hasn't come for me yet either. Although I do wonder if there is ever going to be a time when I do not need support. I think we all could use support in life, especially once we have all experienced a life changing event like the OC.

I was reading some of the older posts and I see that you have had some ups and downs on the board lately. Everything seems calm now, so let's do our best to keep it that way. Friendly conversations with friendly people.

By the way, you said all of our old posts are archived. Where? How do we get them? Also for your info, my ivillage e-mail is working again. Back in the days when I was a hermit, I never cleaned it out and it was frequently overloaded.

So, feel free to e-mail me anytime you wish. I think I have a current e-mail for you. I will send you an e-mail this week just to check it.

Glad to be back, Catnip. And, don't change a thing about yourself, we love you exactly as you are -- combat ready.

love,
heavenly

"Your story reminded me so much of something my H used to say. Whenever I would get weepy and need him to remind me that he loved me, he would say "I'm here aren't I. There is nothing you could do to hold me here if I wanted to be with the OW, but I am here with you, while you are steadily kicking my butt! Doesn't that count for something?"

That cracked me up that's exactly how my H feels.

Thanks for your support we are trying to communicate better and I'm trying not to hold things in side until I explode. I just truly try not to talk about OC/exOW to him unless he brings them up I used to shove it down his throat now I enjoy having an entire day go by and not having to think about it/them. (I know that may sound mean but it's true.)

I always felt that your H was committed, but you had an extraordinary amount of anger and hurt, Unsure, if I recall correctly. Only time could cure the problem.

"I am so glad that you are communicating better with your H. I used to talk to my H in a detached way, as if it was a friend telling me about his life. Just like your H, some of the things he would say hurt so much, but I kept my perspective and listened objectively. That was when I learned the most about what he really wanted, and who he really was."

Man I could have written that word for word. That exactly how I felt it was like I was talking to a friend about their H not mine. I was really detached. Thank you again for your support advice. I'm glad you started this thread.

Unsure

{{{Heavenly}}}
I read you post on the run. I was just checking in on everybody and did a double-take when I saw your name. I knew I didn't have much time, but I had to read and see how you were. It does my heart good to see that you've reached a level of peace and "normalcy" in your life. You're such a kind-hearted soul....and oh so full of wisdom.

Update: I'm still with "new BF", and things are going very well. He just popped in a little while ago. He made quite an entrance, parking in front of my house with the fire departments ambulance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> He was on duty, but had to stop by and give me a big bear hug and let me know he missed me. To be honest, I think he was making up for a bit of a flub from earlier today. He managed to give me a quick phone call this afternoon and started to talk about Jonas. "How's Jonas?" "Where's Jonas?" "What has Little Man(Jonas) been up to today?" Jonas, Jonas, Jonas. I started teasing him about dating me just to get to my son. He sputtered his protest and then proceeded to ask me if I could bring Jonas by the station to see him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Of course I played the hurt GF part to the hilt. He smoothed over his offense as best he could, and then his pager went off. Another call to attend to those accident-prone, holiday weekend merrymakers. The poor guy has been on mandatory overtime since Thursday morning, and won't be relieved until Monday. He's been so busy running calls, the poor guy didn't even get a Thanksgiving meal. But, life is good. He loves his job, he loves Jonas, and he loves me. By the way, Jonas just recently turned 2! Can you believe it? When I first came here I was a little into my third trimester. We really have come a long way. We've faced our demons and come out the better for it. Jonas also has a new sister. xMM and his W had a little girl in early September. They're so in love with her. I can hear it in BS's voice whenever we talk (yes, there's a tad bit of jealousy, but not enough to be an issue). I'm truly happy for them. BS and I discuss baby stuff, tell bawdy jokes, complain about the men in our lives, etc. Now that she knows how much work goes into raising a baby and working full time, she expresses admiration for me going it alone. That was a welcome ego boost. Although, Jonas is such a love. He makes life richer, better, funner (yeah, yeah, I know "more fun"). With Jonas, life is new again. All in all, this has been an exceptional year for me. I've reached a balance in life that has me thoroughly content. I only wish I could be more succesful at spreading my peaceful feelings to others on this board.

Well, chica, I need to chase a little man down for a diaper change. He made a quick stop at my side, for a quick hug, and left an odorous green fog behind.

Oh, and Gem, I'll be in Vegas about a week before you. It's my birthday gift from BF. We'll be spending the weekend before Christmas at the Paris. Now that I think about it, maybe I should have picked the Luxor instead. BF has gotten so good at spoiling me that playing Cleopatra for the weekend wouldn't be much of a stretch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OB1

<small>[ November 30, 2002, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: ohbratti1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, and Gem, I'll be in Vegas about a week before you. It's my birthday gift from BF. We'll be spending the weekend before Christmas at the Paris. Now that I think about it, maybe I should have picked the Luxor instead. BF has gotten so good at spoiling me that playing Cleopatra for the weekend wouldn't be much of a stretch </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohbratti what a lucky woman you are! Paris and Vegas?

I know you two will have a romantic trip together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So Cleo, enjoy yourself..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you deserve it.

love
Debi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heavenlybody26:
<strong>

I have been appalled at the lack of information on dealing with OCs. There are no books to read, there are no guidelines, except on this forum. It is like a dirty little secret that everyone keeps hidden.

=^^= Do you remember "Popeye"? She has been working on her book and is taking case studies from the people here. Books take a long time to write, edit and publish, so it is still a work in progress. She is also re-marrying soon, so there will be a delay in the research for a while, I imagine. She still has the "OC Research" e-mail.

But look at this Board, the number of people experiencing this problem is growing and there is no where for them to turn.

=^^= This is true, however, I live in denial and can't stand to think of this thing in epidemic proportions and try to correlate the number of people here to the earth's census...that makes us a rare breed indeed. I know there are hundreds going through this who are not here but should be but can't be because they either don't have computers or have not been isnpired to put out a search on the Internet like of all us did.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bipolar said the Opposition's words could do a lot of harm to wounded souls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kiss that man for being right on target.

=^^= He has gained much wisdom over the past four years....

By the way, you said all of our old posts are archived. Where? How do we get them?

=^^= Before P/C was created, we all posted on GQ and all that is archived if you go to the intro page of the forums containing the long list of individual sites within MB. As far as old P/C posts, I know they are are here somewhere. I will write to Steve Harley and see if he can give us directions how to access them. We can get many of them by clicking on the little sunglasses at the top of any of our postings and on the screen there is a small bar that says something like "Click Here to View Recent Posts"

Also for your info, my ivillage e-mail is working again. Back in the days when I was a hermit, I never cleaned it out and it was frequently overloaded.

=^^= No kidding...explains the bounce backs.

I think I have a current e-mail for you.

=^^= No, it's changed and I don't have yours anymore. When I went to MSN, I couldn't get all my AOL E-mail addresses. You can get my e-mail address from Xarelel(Madame X).

Glad to be back, Catnip. And, don't change a thing about yourself, we love you exactly as you are -- combat ready.

=^^= Purrrr

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>