We just got notice that OW quit her job and now she wants us to pay more support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Must be nice. If you don't feel like working just quit and ask for more welfare.
Our lawyer says she will not get it because that is called voluntary suppression of income but we still have to go BACK to court and pay more attorney fees.
Do these women NEVER give up ?!?!?!

jtigger

..what a loser, ey?

You gotta be kidding me.....Sorry that you have to go back to court - just shouldn't be. I keep believing that God doesn't like UGLY and one day she will get what is coming to her. Good luck to you in the process!

A

I can't believe it, but yet--I can.

My OW is currently collecting welfare and all the associated goodies, but lives in an upscale condo bought by her mom and dad and is driving a 2003 truck (leased). Mom and Dad also pay her expenses as well as the OC's (that is, the expenses not covered by welfare). All this and no job!

If anyone has any experience in documenting this kind of fraud relative to a custody case, please respond to this message. I'll let you know how to get in touch with me.

Hang in there, jtigger!

Just this morning I told Twiisty that I was going to take a break from the board for a few days...hahaha...what a joke. The first thing I did when I got in the door just now was to log onto this site and saw your post and HAD to respond.

On Monday, Bipolar and I are going to court to hopefully modify the unglodly excessive amount the XOW has been extorting from us for three years. Everyone please say a prayer for us at 11AM Central time.

I did something I never do...I logged onto GloryB just to take a peek and read a post by some woman carrying on something awful about how she is getting screwed out of money and medical by that worthless XOM she spawned with. I sat here with my mouth open, vascillating between outbursts of laughter and stunned disbelief. They are the most bitter bunch of harpies I have ever seen. They made any Betrayed look like she is just slightly bytchy in comparison.

You have to understand the mindset, Jtigger, and their ridiculous assumptions of ENTITLEMENT. They feel so entitled to be treated like a spouse of many years and expect to be compensated accordingly, sighting the XOM's withdrawal from their lives and the lives of her child (that the XOM never wanted) as reason enough to empty the his pockets and that of his wife and children, whom they care NOTHING about and obviously NEVER did.

There is nothing either of us or any of us here can do to enlighten them. They hate us and are filled with poisonous bitterness because their XMM is back with his wife, where he should have been all along.

Each one of those women had the power (unless she was raped) to say "Call me when the ink is dry on your divorce...there will be no sex til then" and NONE of them did this...not one.

EVERYONE on the planet knows how to prevent pregnancy and it is still up to the woman to make sure she protects her body. She's still the first and last say so on whether or not there will be sex.

The days of being ashamed for allowing a MM into their lives is long gone thanks to the extraction of personal responsibility, hedonistic selfishness (me first! it's all about me, me, me,...me first!) and our overall social decay. They all sound like a cross between Anna Nicole and Jerry Springer.

What do we expect??? A corrupt court system to suddenly say "Hey! This isn't balanced! Let's do a case by case basis and align support according to length of involvement and consider the family of origin."

I'm glad your XOW painted herself into a corner. She probably thought she could just go ahead and make all these choices and decisions without any consequences....because she's used to getting her own way.

I read how these XOW moan that their precious children are suffering. They aren't suffering...they've hit the lotto! Most of them are getting far, far more than they need or deserve if you consider that very few of them have contact so, as a result, they have the best of both worlds...no involvement and a big fat check...but it ain't enough and they want more and more and more. Nothing would ever satisfy them. They gleefully cheer each other on when someone successfully hits the XMM up for more chump change and makes his families life a little more miserable.

I never got dime one for my LEGITIMATE son born from my first marraige, nor did Bipolar receive dime one from his Ex-wife and we managed fine. We struggled, sure, but our children grew up into fine people who understand and respect the value of a dollar and understand personal responsibility. They had medical care, food, clothes and occasionally money for fun. They all got jobs in high school and are productive people today. All this lamenting on the other site saying "You should go after the bum" is so smarmy and the indignation that they can't get more is hilarious and ridiculous. They'll make it. Their kids will make it. They'll get something from XOM...more than they should....they're just mad because it isn't what they want and they are used to calling the shots and are pissed as hell when they won't get it.

It costs next to nothing to care for children (unless there are special needs) until they are older and if they go to private schools like mine did. These OW's have to provide for themselves a place to live anyway...why do they feel so entitled to elevated living standards when they have contributed nothing? Many divorced women don't get what these tenacious and money grubbing OW's get.

The whole thing is so ridiculous and so unbalanced. I don't begrudge our XOW money for her kid, but she certainly should not be getting more than what she truly needs...just the basics and nothing more.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Catnip....please tell me it's none of my business if you wish but I was wondering how old your oc is and if you are doing this through lawyers or the dept. of revenue or children & family services? I mean, who did your cs order come through?
Is a lawyer/judge able to help with that? - what is it that you have to show to get that lowered?
Just wondering.
And, yes, I'll say a prayer for you at 11:00 am on Monday morning!

Angelia

Oh but wait Catnip, there is more to the story! I just shook my head reading it. Couldn't believe it either. I would just be happy to get some support for my 8 year old, anything would help.

She gets her support because they garnish his wages, he is a pilot making over $200,000.00 per year I might add. She is fighting for reimbursement of medical bills and daycare, now if she is getting at least 17% of that, that comes to about $34,000.00 per year! She is mad because she has no more money, according to her she will be bankrupt by April if he doesn't start paying back medical and daycare, but she and her oc just STAYED AT A HOTEL FOR A WEEK SO THAT SHE COULD HAVE HER FLOORS REFINISHED!

She is now being coached to get on state medical so the state will go after him.

He on the other hand is fighting her tooth and nail right now (for his family and children I am sure)This guy is pissed and pulling out all the stops to put her in her place. Oh yeah, she also made a referrence that the reason nothing happened in court the other day is because the judge was a man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The support she gets is more than most families make all year. I think she is a flight attendant also, or something of that nature.

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: mshermi ]</small>

Angelia

The OC is three years old. Our original court order was for $3000 per month (hahahaha), which was lowered to $1500 (hahaha) then to $1300 (still hahaha).

The hearing officer (in NY) refused to consider or acknowledge our tax returns, my husband's illness, our financial situation or the fact that the court order was almost as much as my husband was making. It has never made any difference at all to the courts about our situation. But that is just our particular situation. The courts sided with XOW regardless of the proof we presented.

We only had one asset, our house. But, she wanted the equity out of that, too. She never lived there, she never paid for it or created a history there, she didn't know the love and the joy within those walls for all those years. She was an opportunist that took advantage of a situation of an emotional breakdown of a few months and tried to capitalize on it. She successfully allowed herself to get knocked up and hook her fat butt up to the gravy train.

We lost our business because of my husband's illness, we have no savings or any other assets yet the OW tried to attach a lien against our house for fraudulent "arrears" that were miscalculated, illegal and arbitrary. We were forced to obtain a "faux" divorce wherein my husband signed over the house into my name to protect me and what little we had left.

The OW called for his incarceration and to have his license revoked because until he was garnsihed, we sent only 17% of his check to her, according to NY law, but it just wasn't good enough for her and had his wages garnished. We went into hiding and moved out of our house, renting it out so we could continue our mortgage payments because we could no longer afford to live there but we wanted to keep it in the hopes we could return to it someday.

My husband earned 'cash' for six months. We did NOT pay any child support whatsoever during those six months and I guess we are considered dead beat for that periosd of time. But, our backs were up against the wall. Our lives were crashing down around us, the XOW hired an extremely aggressive attorney and was so bitter and so vengeful, she just wanted to see us crash and burn. Our working for cash for a few months enabled us to pay off some of his medical bills, some old bills and utilities we owed from when we lost everything, yet the courts insisted we were hiding assets and treated my husband like a criminal during a telephone testimony from our state to NY.

We were forced to file bankruptcy to get out from under our business debt. Our credit went from in the high 600's to mid 500's in just two years.

The XOW once told me "All I want is just a little help for the baby..." She lied. She wanted everything that was mine; my husband, a child that I am only entitled to have, his earning potential, our business...everything.

She is in her late thirties, has lived with and continues to live with her parents for the past ten years, refuses to work and sleeps til noon....or at least she did til she had the kid.

She's a lazy piece of work and was looking for a meal ticket but mis-calculated my husband's worth and refused to look at his illness. She was warned...I called her, but, she just didn't care. She didn't care about me, our marriage or what harm she was doing to our lives, our finances, our family or our kids. She just didn't care. She had no integrity, no dignity, no sense of fair play, no morals or any convictions. She was all out for herself and what she could get...a husband for herself, never mind he was already someone else's husband. She didn't care how this effected an entire family or other innocent people. She should be sued just for being evil and selfish and for the damage she has done to me. It is the same as if she intentionally hit us with a car....and she gets rewarded for this behavior. All in the name of a child that should not exist by my husband. If this is her call and she got to call all the shots, she should maintain the lion's share of the obligation or she has no business keeping a child she can't afford. It is stunning, isn't it?

She carried around an EPT test in her purse and tested herself on two of her three weekends with my husband and refused to show any compassion for my desperation when I called her begging her to stay away from him right after their first weekend together. She didn't care then how sick he was and she doesn't care now. She has made it clear at every court hearing she just wants the money and no contact.

We did hire a NY attorney who could do nothing. The hearing officer was prejudiced and clearly on the side of the XOW and dismissed every shred of valid proof we presented.

This has ruined our lives almost completely. As a last ditch effort, we have appealed to the courts in our state and hoping that since they are billing us for CS in NY that our case will not be dismissed due to venue. We now have certified and notarized proof of everything we have presented in the past and are hoping for some relief. It might get thrown out since the original order was made in NY but if it does, we will just file there and request a court date and try to do it via telephone testimony once again.

In short, we will keep doing this until we succeed. Even if I was no longer with my hsuband, I would see this through until the end for the sheer principle of it all. I will crush her by demanding the courts be fair and balanced and act according to the law of the state if it is the last thing I do.

My situation is more corrupt than most so don't expect yours to go as badly as ours did. You might find a measure of justice where you are. I will pray you do, because living like this isn't living.

I bet the XOW is just laughing her a$$ off all the way to the bank and filled with smug satisfaction that she has caused me so much financially misery. But, trust me, she will get hers someday. Karma.

Catnip =^^=

Catnip....Wow and double WOW. Amazing. So, how are you and your H now? I'm assuming his illness is being treated and your life is going on. Do you battle this daily? Do you love your H? Are you angry?

I've read all of your posts I can and you seem so wise and write so well.

I just can't imagine all that you've been through. Yes, someday she will get her returns.

Angelia

Mshermi...yep,,,that's the one.

Wish I could get my floors refinished. hahaha
Hell, I wish I could just move back into my house! Can't afford it though. Ow gets all our money and we can't even take care of the mortgage payment. We are going to have to sell the house.

Sheesh, she sure can whine, can't she? Poor thing. She's got life by the a$$ compared to me, a divorced Mom who got no support for 18 years from my Ex-HUSBAND ...not just as a result from an illicit adulterous smarmy affair...

I've been bad in my life and have done some awful things (and I like being bad) but this is up there with a hit and run or robbery for sure. Because it effects the lives of OTHERS, many other innocent people. And, they don't care....they just don't care. End of story. How can anyone reason with that kind of incredible self absorption and skewed logic. The denial that their actions have caused so much miosery to so many other innocent lives all in the name of their child. Somehow, the imbalance of it all is glaring.

I read that thread and kept thinking, "And they call US bitter???" and then laugh hysterically. What a bunch of hypocrites.

We already know they have no sense of right or wrong or feelings for anyone but themselves and their offspring they declare to "love" so much, caring nothing for our children. I guess that's why I am hard pressed to consider their feelings on any level. Here they are ...the perps...and not only have they ruined our lives forever and completely and taken everything precious from us, but they insist we pay for it, too.

It completely defies any logic whatsoever.

Can you imagine the change of tune and outrage we would be hearing from any of them if they were experiencing THIS kind of injustice??? They act like they are saints and martyrs carrying this huge burden that they chose to take on but want US to pay for it instead of what they really are. What we are all experiencing is their pain squared over and over.

What they are going through is NOTHING like what we are experiencing. Not even close, Mshermi, not even close.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by angelia:
<strong>So, how are you and your H now?

=^^= Our un-marriage is wonderful in the sense we are grateful for the opportunity to rebuild our lives together. His remorse is pretty debilitating at times and Monday he was so depressed, he couldn't get out of bed, but now he is better and couldn't be sweeter or kinder to me.

I'm assuming his illness is being treated and your life is going on.

=^^= He has been under psychiatric care since January 1999 and has been diagnosed as bipolar during his several hospitalizations. His alcoholism is not an issue right now as he has maintained his sobriety now for five months and we are hoping for the best. Before all this happened, he had 18 years sobriety. The problems started when he resumed drinking after all that time. The illness accelerated at an alarming rate and his behavior in all areas of our lives was reckelss and destructive. XOW was just one of many symptoms of his illness.

Do you battle this daily?

=^^= Pretty much.

Do you love your H?

=^^= Madly

Are you angry?

=^^= Seething. Enraged. Not at all evolved or forgiving except toward him because he carries so much regret. I am exceedingly loving and kind to him because he is so sorry. He's crazy about me and scared I will leave and will stop at nothing to keep me. He will only let me go if I am too miserable to stay. Very unselfish.

He has done everything possible to make amends and has earned my forgiveness. He is a wonderful, wonderful man and we have had 23 years together and they were all wonderful til this happened. All that history...I can't throw it all away for a rotten four years. It has to get better...it just has to.

I just can't imagine all that you've been through.

=^^= Maybe I am just dramatic. There are others here who have it worse, believe me. I am very lucky because of what my husband and I have together...it is pretty amazing and special. It is so much like it used to be, only even better in some ways.

Yes, someday she will get her returns.

=^^= From your lips....

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I agree Miss Catnip.

`aQ

I completely agree Miss Catnip.

"Can you imagine the change of tune and outrage we would be hearing from any of them if they were experiencing THIS kind of injustice??? They act like they are saints and martyrs carrying this huge burden that they chose to take on but want US to pay for it instead of what they really are. What we are all experiencing is their pain squared over and over."

Well, now according to what I read, they would completely understand how the affair happened, they would never take it out on the innocent child, and they could never stay with or respect their dh anymore if he could turn his back on his own child. Okie Dokie.

You know Miss Catnip, I do believe the 9th will be a special day for you. That happenes to be my smart mouthed, back talking, wanting everything for christmas 8 year olds 9th birthday. He is having a party Saturday, I will have 12 8-9 year old boys here! I really think I went temporarily insane when I agreed to this.

I will be thinking of you Monday Catnip and I will pray for you that you finally get what you and bipolar deserve, justice in every sense of the word.

And for anyone else, If you live in Southern Indiana, real close to Louisville ( I am 20 minutes away), I have a 1 year old that needs a va-ca from her momma! Oh yeah, she has been sick and a bit GROUCHY!!!!

OK, I have to jump in here. I'm sorry. I don't think that anyone at "the other board"
. They are the most bitter bunch of harpies I have ever seen. They made any Betrayed look like she is just slightly bytchy in comparison.....and their ridiculous assumptions of ENTITLEMENT. They feel so entitled to be treated like a spouse of many years and expect to be compensated accordingly, sighting the XOM's withdrawal from their lives and the lives of her child (that the XOM never wanted) as reason enough to empty the his pockets and that of his wife and children, whom they care NOTHING about and obviously NEVER did.
First off, the person in question's major concern is insurance for her son. She can't go back to work full time until January, and xMM is balking at putting the child on his insurance at all. Yes, I coached her on how to get insurance for her son. THAT is of the utmost importance for ANY child. I will admit that yes, some people are greedy and go after as much as they can get, but that is not her case - there is actually more to the story that is posted there. Catnip - I feel for you - I can't imagine having to pay that much a month for CS, and I certainly empathize. I get $600/month - and that didn't even BEGIN to touch what I paid for daycare, etc. I'm now in a better position because my son isn't in daycare all day, but the CS still just covers it. To say that it costs next to nothing to care for a child is a ridiculous statement. My daycare was $800/month. Everything else - I PAY FOR. I pay my mortgage, I pay for food, I pay for his clothes, activities, everything. I don't EXPECT any more than what I have. I COULD have gotten twice what I get and I said no - I just wanted enough to take care of him without having to take cash advances on my credit cards to pay rent (when I was renting). I have since gotten a much better paying job, and have bought a house - ON MY OWN. It is just as bad for us to assume that all BW's are nasty witches as it is for you to assume that ALL OW (or xOW as the case may be) are after certain entitlements, don't care about anyone except themselves, expect to be treated like a spouse, want to empty pockets, etc. MOST of us just want to be able to take care of our kids the best we can. And for MOST of us, that is being a single parent - but expecting at least the minimum of financial support from the other parent - which would be expected whether they were OC's or not. REGARDLESS of how they came to be. I get up at 6am every day, get my son up, drop him off at the sitters by 7:30, go to work an hour away, leave work and pick him up by 5:30 and if I'm lucky, he's had a good day and we can spend an hour together before he has to go to bed. Am I happy about not being able to spend more time with him? No. But that is part of the price that I pay for deciding to go ahead with the pregnancy - knowing that I would be a single parent. Do I get to go out and have a social life often? Nope. Do I get to do any of the fun stuff that I used to? Nope. Again - part of the price that I pay. Am I PROUD of myself for how I got pregnant? No. Am I PROUD of myself for making the best of a bad situation and raising a happy healthy wonderful smart adorable 6 year old boy that thinks his mother is the "bestest mommy in the whole world?" Damn straight. Do I expect his father to help out financially? Damn straight. Do I want him to suffer? At times. But that isn't productive thinking, and I get past it. Do I actively contribut to him suffering? Nope. It's NOT WORTH IT.
I'm sorry, I went off on a tangent. But my main point is - you don't know her whole story. Don't assume that you know the whole story, because you don't.

Joshmom,

Ok, just a few questions:

How is it that $34,000 isn't enough to raise a child. With that kind of money her child could go to day care, she could buy medical insurance and still have a HUGE chunk left over to invest for college. I have full time employees that make less than that per year. How does a full year's salary equate to child support?

Second question, how can she "afford" to get her floors refinished when she has all those credit cards of back daycare and medical bills. I sit and think about Twiisty pissing and pooping outside in an outhouse because she can't afford to fix her toilets in the house ... but they sure do pay their CS on time and I start to fume about a woman moaning over $34,000/year not being enough. Oh, that would be $34,000 TAX FREE = $2,800 / month, free and clear. Jeeez, I don't net that much after all my deductions, elected and otherwise.

I hope you don't say ... it's the principle of the matter ... the judge ordered it so he should pay it. Bottom line is, even if the judge ordered it, it's toooooooo much. You have to at least admit that.

I also hope you don't say that the OC should be raised in the same "lifestyle" as his other children (children of the marriage). In my opinion every child is deserving of a home, food, health care, an education and a safe living environment. Every (both) parent is responsible to deliver those basic necessities. Anything beyond that should not be demanded by any court of law.

I'm glad you popped by so I could ask these questions. I didn't dare post them on your board for fear of "starting something." Good to see you again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanx,
Z.

Joshmom,
Please understand that there is not one of us on this board that has had a positive experience with the OW. I know in my case she lives to make my H and I suffer.
I agree that it is wrong for us to jump to conclusions but just like the OW on GloryB it is the experiences of our lives that lead us to those conclusions.
I want to ask a honest question. This has been nagging at me but I don't post on GloryB because I believe that is not my place.
I read the OW over there talk about what a sorry SOB xMM is because he has treated them and their child so bad. But when this same man was treating his wife and children the same way because of his relationship with OW it was perfectly acceptable because his needs were not being met at home. I mean lets be honest. Those women were hoping that man would leave his wife and children to be with her and they felt that was perfectly OK. It was perfectly OK to destroy those children's lives. So why was it OK for him to treat his wife and children like [censored] for her but it is not OK for him to treat exOW and OC like [censored] for his wife ?
Does this make any sense ? I'm afraid its not coming out like I wanted.
I am not flaming, I am not provoking. I am trying to understand the mindset.
I have always found you to be reasonable and I am hoping that you can give me some kind of understanding.
Jtigger

JTigger--sorry to hear abt your new complications with xOW and OC--it is a TOUGH situation and my H and I are struggling through similar issues. I must say though, based on my xH's reaction to paying child support for our D (whom he adores by the way), MEN HATE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT--be it OC, child by girlfriend or beloved children from an xW. Perhaps if you pretended that the xOW was and xW and the OC was just a child from a previous M it would take the sting out of it? That is a trick that has worked very well for me when I feel the anger over his brief EMA well up--everyone has sexual "baggage" sexual history. I decided to try and forgive my H and try and make my M work so I have to accept all his flaws and mistakes and try to forgive them.

I am a "child lover" like some of the ladies I've read on this board, so I think I have a tendency to put the child first. I am struggling w/my H over his desire NOT to pay CS to his OC--it breaks my heart that he can be so cruel to his own son. I disagree w/Catspaw in that I spent several years as a single mom working fulltime raising my D and being dogged by my xH for CS--it was VERY DIFFICULT and my D WAS deprived of things that she deserved while her selfish father and his new W took European ski vacations, bought expensive autos, clothes, expensive house and then cried "Poor us!!" I love my current H and so I love his son (our OC). I feel very upset that my H DOESN'T want visitation even though our xOW is offering reasonable terms. It's funny how similar the OW and I are--we both want to put the child first no matter how painful the circumstances surrounding his birh. My current H is a loving stepfather to my D from my 1st M--he is not biologically related to my child, but because he loves me he also loves her, and that's how I feel abt his OC. And yet he rejects his OWN child, a son who needs a father--I am on the brink of ending our M because of the horrible way he is treating his OC son--it sickens me and we have been having lots of LB fights over it.

It seems too often the child gets completely lost in the bitterness and people using on one or both sides. I shuddered to read Catpaw's tragic story--it really sounds as if her H's xOW was just plotting to ruin them as a couple and financially perhaps even from the beginning of the EMA and it certainly sounds as if she doesn't care at all abt her child, just had the child to get at Catspaw and bipolar--she WILL get hers no doubt--what a strange, strange woman--I've never heard of a woman having a baby just to get back at someone--that is just too bizarre!! What a horrible thing to have happen to you Catspaw, my heart goes out.
I guess you don't have any visitation or interest in your H's child? Does he care at all abt his child? It sounds as if he is too mentally ill to really care abt anyone at this point, maybe when he is more stable he can develop a relationship w/the OC although it just sounds like too much bitterness and plotting on the part of your xOW--what a nightmare!!!

One thing Catspaw, this is something I am struggling w/as I try to rebuild my M, from your post it sounds as if you and your H are rebuilding your M based on working as a "team" against the OW and your H's OC. I know my H tried to "get himself off the hook" by trying to get me to hate the OW and scapegoat her. He acted like he was all helpless and confused and she went after him and he was so weak and scared he just couldn't say "no" to having unprotected sex with her. Well I refused to buy it. Maybe because, although I'm a Christian, I am also a femininst and I just refused to "rebuild" my M by scapegoating and completely blaming the OW and OC. I have to say Catspaw, it does sound a little like this is what you are doing and I think Dr. Harley does warn against that in terms of creating a strong foundation. Too bad there isn't some way to reach some peace with all of this and let go, move on, forgive etc. Also, as I've pointed out to my H, the more conflict and negative passion we direct towards the OW, the more power she continues to have over us and our M. In that sense, by hating her and scapegoating her so much, my H continues to be passionately involved with her. I am striving for calm neutrality and compassion. I know that in our case she really fell in love w/my H and he was just using her--lying to her, lying to me--he broke her heart just as he broke mine having the EMA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JoshMom:
<strong>. To say that it costs next to nothing to care for a child is a ridiculous statement.

=^^= Mmmmmm...not really. Daycare is expensive, granted. But the other expenses aren't so bad except for three or four times a year when kids need clothes for school and summer vacation, lunches, books...I did it. I figured it out and I was married to the guy. I was stretched and stressed at times but we got through it without help from anyone. Daycare is certainly a lot higher than it was when I was raising my son a bazillion years ago but then so were my wages of $2.50 to $4.00 an hour back in 1969-1971. All I am saying, Joshmom, is that keeping a child is a choice and if someone opts to do just that, it is just their responsibility...especially when NO ONE, not one other person had word one in the decision making process, except OW. And that is not fair no matter how you slice and dice it.

My daycare was $800/month. Everything else - I PAY FOR. I pay my mortgage, I pay for food, I pay for his clothes, activities, everything. I don't EXPECT any more than what I have. I COULD have gotten twice what I get and I said no

=^^= I am not speaking of you, Joshmom. My reference is toward my XOW and some of the XOW's I have read on GB. I'm all fired up...I am prepping myself for something that virtually means life or no life at all on Monday.

I'm sorry, I went off on a tangent.

=^^= No harm done at all...I am the Queen of Tangents. I certainly appreciate your position and POV because of the way YOU are....I don't think you're bad at all...I am just so incredibly outraged at the corruption and imbalance and the lack of concern or consideration for the WS's family. I spent half my life for my husband, my kids/stepkids, home, business, our history, our future and it feels like a thief crept in and snatched it all away and doesn't give a [censored] who it hurt. I am absolutely not absolving Bipolar Bear at all but that man is on suicide watch and I am frankly frantic. The shame and the humiliation is more than he can bear sometimes. It was alarming to watch him sleep all day on Monday knowing that he was in a very dark place, yet so sweet to me wanting to wave a wand and make it all go away.

We watched some Twilight Zone episode last week where a successful executive had a chance to go back in time and change the course of his life. He went back and corrected the error of taking his father's baseball which was the pivotal moment of all things to come in his life and Bipolar got all choked up at the end when the announcer said something about haivng the chance to go back in time and change things, I heard him say under his breath with heartbreaking sincerity and pain, "Oh God, yeah, if only..." I'm tellin ya, this [censored] is heartbreaking and if any of your sisters ever, ever considered for one moment the domino effect of their actions and really stopped for a moment to take responsibility for their actions without making a shytload of excuses and being bitter and vindictive about the WS going back to their wives as 98% of them do, and to think of how this has impacted these innocent families, if they dare look at themselves...I think there might be more overall compassion for one another. If Betrayeds are constantly worried that their lives are going to bottom out because of this, no one wins. The vitriol wil continue and the courts keep rewarding this kind of behavior and contineu to ignore the family of origin, there will be people like me shouting it from the rooftops.

But my main point is - you don't know her whole story. Don't assume that you know the whole story, because you don't.

=^^= Of course I don't know her whole story because I am not a regular lurker on GB. I read what I read and I was making comparisons. I have read other postings of hers in the past and the all around impression is not very favorable, not that anyone cares. I certainly wouldn't if I were her. No big deal, Joshmom.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Catnip =^^=

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mobe:
<strong>

Catpaw

=^^= Hahaha...that's cute.

I guess you don't have any visitation or interest in your H's child?

=^^= No, but I have tender feelings for her and wish her well. That's the best I can do.

Does he care at all abt his child?

=^^= I am sure on some level he does. However, like most men, he is good at compartmentalizing stuff and for not ever seeing OW pregnant or seeing the child ever in its life, it isn't "real" to him. I know if he saw OC, it would probably melt his heart like it does when he looks at our kids.

It sounds as if he is too mentally ill to really care abt anyone at this point, maybe when he is more stable he can develop a relationship w/the OC although it just sounds like too much bitterness and plotting on the part of your xOW--what a nightmare!!!

=^^= Bipolar is on heavy meds but he is lucid and very sensitive to others and in touch with his feelings more now than ever, but OC is a place he finds difficult to go to because of the horrible experiences of the past four years. Besides, the OW doesn't want anything to do with him as long as he is with me. Just his money and she's made that very clear when she slapped me with a Restraining Order based on lies. I guess she thinks I am scary...go figure.

One thing Catspaw, this is something I am struggling w/as I try to rebuild my M, from your post it sounds as if you and your H are rebuilding your M based on working as a "team" against the OW and your H's OC.

=^^= You couldn't be more wrong on this. It may sound like that from my diatribe today but that's because court looms on Monday and I am having some kind of internal crisis...fear of the future kind of thing. Actually, we go for weeks and months never mentioning her name unless we absolutely have to. Instead we spend our complicated time together blissed out we are together and loving it. I scratch his head, he rubs my feet and life is good while we eat popcorm and watch CSI.

He acted like he was all helpless and confused and she went after him and he was so weak and scared he just couldn't say "no" to having unprotected sex with her. Well I refused to buy it.

=^^= Me too. I had to be convinced by a battery of shrinks that my husband was gone. I held him completely liable and still do. That's where the forgivenss comes in. I frankly can't stand to see him like this anymore. It is too frightening. He's got to get over this and perhaps Monday he will gain a measure of peace with something fair and reasonable ordered by the court. It might relieve some of the pressure, some of the remorse.

to "rebuild" my M by scapegoating and completely blaming the OW and OC. I have to say Catspaw, it does sound a little like this is what you are doing and I think Dr. Harley does warn against that in terms of creating a strong foundation.

=^^= That's OK. You're new and don't know my whole story. I am not blaming the OC at all and never have. The OW? Oh hell yes. She is entirely responsible for her 50% plus. But that can be remedied if the courts order a fair and reasonable support and arrears adjustment. We need some vindication here.

Too bad there isn't some way to reach some peace with all of this and let go, move on, forgive etc.

=^^= There is...a fair and reasonable adjustment in CS payments and arrears....and they all lived happily ever after.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Catnip =^^=

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

I'm not even paying CS yet and I'm outraged by the "system".
It seems to me that the courts should consider the current family. There should be a balance for the children at home - maybe they should all get something equally. I don't know the percentages but it seems that in Twiisty's case she doesn't even have indoor plumbing for the whole family - THAT IS AN OUTRAGE!!!! People on welfare in public housing even have running water and toilets for gods sake.
And for Catnip - To go have to hide out from their own home, file bankruptcy and lose their business all while dealing with a mental illness IS AN OUTRAGE!!!
It just seems that the system is corrupt. Yes, these men have made mistakes. But to punish the whole family is ludicrous. We have innocent children in our marriage that should be protected also. My two children didn't have an affair, they can't control their father and his XOW. They don't even know what's going on....so, why should their lives change? Why should they be subject to not eating at Mickey D's or why should they not get new shoes, or why should they have to go outside for the outhouse because the OW and her OC is peeing inside? OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

How do you change that - write your congressman? who legislates that?

There's gotta be another way. I think Catnip is right....it's the system - I think everyone agrees that the oc should be taken care of....Our husbands are not ATM machines and they don't have an endless supply of cash. Every child deserves to be taken care of equally and that's all I'm asking...Fairness and equity for all parties involved.