I've been in touch with the girl that all of this started over and here are her explanations, if you will - Not that she has to explain herself, but I just thought that clearing the air on a couple of the "questions" might help.

1) 17% of income has a cap of $75,000 plus my income is included also...

2) My Uncle owns a floor refinishing company, the floors were so bad in three rooms from dogs peeing on them that we didnt use those rooms. We lived in the two bedrooms and kitchen. I am lucky to have family that helps each other.

3) I never got a cent for ten months, I paid all insurance, medical, birth, surgery for our son, daycare..by myself while being out on disability and having surgery for cancer. I have only received child support for two months...I have a lot of bills to catch up on. I didnt get the arrears owed in a lump sum..I get an extra $150 a month. We arent living high off the hog...

Like I said before, never assume that you know the whole story, and maybe this will help some of you understand where she is coming from.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jtigger:
<strong>Joshmom,
Please understand that there is not one of us on this board that has had a positive experience with the OW.
I can certainly understand that. Just the fact that there ever WAS an OW isn't a positive thing.
I know in my case she lives to make my H and I suffer. and that's not right. As much as I would like sometimes to make xMM's life miserable, I realize that it wouldn't be just him that I was affecting. And what would that say about me as a person? It's bad enough that I was involved with him in the first place, but to keep it going years after it's over? Not me. I've got too much respect for myself to be like that.
I want to ask a honest question. This has been nagging at me but I don't post on GloryB because I believe that is not my place.
I read the OW over there talk about what a sorry SOB xMM is because he has treated them and their child so bad. But when this same man was treating his wife and children the same way because of his relationship with OW it was perfectly acceptable because his needs were not being met at home. I mean lets be honest. Those women were hoping that man would leave his wife and children to be with her and they felt that was perfectly OK. It was perfectly OK to destroy those children's lives. So why was it OK for him to treat his wife and children like [censored] for her but it is not OK for him to treat exOW and OC like [censored] for his wife ? Does this make any sense ? I'm afraid its not coming out like I wanted.
It makes perfect sense. I will say, that when I was involved with him, I believed the lines that he fed me. I never thought about "her" or "them". It wasn't until I took a step back and realized what I'd been a party to that I did think about ALL the people involved. I used to argue with my sister that he was a wonderful father to his kids. Now I know better. He is or was a horrible father. He neglected his home life to spend time with me. He neglected time with THEM. For what? A piece of a$$? Because in the end, that's all I ever was to him. I take full responsibility for my actions, and my part in the affair. I think that he's a louse, but that's just in general. I don't think it's ever OK to treat ANYONE like [censored], let alone an innocent child. But that's just MHO.
I am not flaming, I am not provoking. I am trying to understand the mindset.
I have always found you to be reasonable and I am hoping that you can give me some kind of understanding. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't take any of what you've said to be flaming or provoking. I came here to understand the mindset also. Just not the same mindset that you're trying to understand. Maybe we can help each other to do that.

Josh's Mom: That was a nice posting. I am sure my WH fed his XOW the same lines - I am sure she wants to be with him and I am sure it angers her that he is not there.

Wow, life is not supposed to be like this. The marriage bed is sacred and there is no resolution or solution to any of this. Someone always gets hurt.

Too bad that these stories can't get out to the countless people involved in affairs. When they are in that fog they would never listen but they should. None of us comes out a winner.

For me, and that is all I can speak for, I pray daily that God will heal and mend my heart, my soul, my marriage. I pray for strength to deal with the finances, I pray for love for my H again, I pray for his strength because he is in pain too. I have not met the XOW nor the OC. I do not pray for them yet....it's only been 21 days (yes, three weeks) so I'm not there yet. Maybe someday I will pray for them too but for now, I need healing of my own and I cannot give what I do not have.

I thought your post was truthful and humble and well written. Blessings to you and your house at this Christmas season!

Joshmom,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been in touch with the girl that all of this started over and here are her explanations, if you will - Not that she has to explain herself, but I just thought that clearing the air on a couple of the "questions" might help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks a ton for doing this. It was very good to "get more of the story".

I do think it was probably very rough having to go so long without support and racking up a bunch of bills while waiting.

And shame on her MM for not coming up off some money without having to be "told" by the courts.

My H and I paid support for 1.5 years before our OW decided to go to court for more ... then we had our court ordered DNA and surprise ... negative.

Like I said in my other post on this thread, ALL children deserve the basics. So proud that you "get" it. xMM's job is not to keep OC in the lifestyle of a prince or princess.

While I still think the $75,000 is far too much in any state of this country. That amount goes far beyond basics. If custodial parent chooses private school, ballet lessons, traveling soccer league, whatever ... then CP should pay.

But that's just my lil' ole opinion.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Z.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JoshMom:
<strong>I've been in touch with the girl that all of this started over and here are her explanations, but I just thought that clearing the air on a couple of the "questions" might help.

1) 17% of income has a cap of $75,000 plus my income is included also...

2) My Uncle owns a floor refinishing company, the floors were so bad I am lucky to have family that helps each other.

3) I never got a cent for ten months, I paid all insurance, medical, birth, surgery for our son, daycare..by myself while being out on disability and having surgery for cancer. We arent living high off the hog...

Like I said before, never assume that you know the whole story, and maybe this will help some of you understand where she is coming from.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">=^^= That was kind of you to fill us in. I was the one who lurked over there and became all indignant and brought it all back here. My apologies for my knee jerk bum rap.

That being said, have you read "Bee's" post about Twiisty being pregnant with her fifth kid and how we don't chastise her for her decision to have another child? Perhaps you can tell "Bee" that this is becaue she is in a marriage and chose to have a child and whether or not it was a good idea to do this, they are married. Perhaps you can tell "Bee" that Betrayeds often have a child after an affair because they are so damaged, so out of sync with the world due to their trauma and sometimes they just aren't thinking clearly. Betrayeds want desperately to reclaim what is theirs. And finally tell "Bee" that if people pitch in $20 bucks to ensure that someone has a little something for Christmas, that perhaps as an act of contrition, she could sweeten the pot and throw in a few bucks herself just as an exercise in giving to someone who certainly needs it at a very profound time of year. Shame on "Bee" for being incredibly petty when someone is truly suffering.

Comparing a married Betrayeds pregnancy in a legitimate marriage to an OW's illicit union with a MM and producing a child is preposterous and absolutely no comparison.

Catnip =^^=

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:


That being said, have you read "Bee's" post about Twiisty being pregnant with her fifth kid and how we don't chastise her for her decision to have another child? Perhaps you can tell "Bee" that this is becaue she is in a marriage and chose to have a child and whether or not it was a good idea to do this, they are married. Perhaps you can tell "Bee" that Betrayeds often have a child after an affair because they are so damaged, so out of sync with the world due to their trauma and sometimes they just aren't thinking clearly. Betrayeds want desperately to reclaim what is theirs. And finally tell "Bee" that if people pitch in $20 bucks to ensure that someone has a little something for Christmas, that perhaps as an act of contrition, she could sweeten the pot and throw in a few bucks herself just as an exercise in giving to someone who certainly needs it at a very profound time of year. Shame on "Bee" for being incredibly petty when someone is truly suffering.

Comparing a married Betrayeds pregnancy in a legitimate marriage to an OW's illicit union with a MM and producing a child is preposterous and absolutely no comparison.

Catnip =^^=[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Catnip, whilie I may not always agree with your opinions I will defend your right to speak whatever is on your mind. That being said, I would have to disagree with you on part of your statement. It is my opinion that NO ONE, be it OW, BW, completely happy W w/ no infidelity in the marriage, girlfriend/boyfriend relationships-whatever- shoould have children when you know you can not afford them. *PLEASE NOTE I AM IN NO WAY SAYING ANYTHING BAD AGAINST ANY OTHER MEMBER OF THIS BOARD* But just because a person is in a legitimate and happy marriage/relationship does not make it "ok" to have children you can not afford. It would be wonderful if we could raise a family on love alone but the reality is children DO cost money. From food, clothes, braces, medications, glasses, extra caricular activities... these things COST. Who wants to tell their child that they can't go out for the football or baseball team because you can't afford to buy the cleats or give them money to eat with when they have away games? Or that they can't get the school pictures or go on the class field trip to see a play and then shopping at a nearby mall because you can't afford the ticket to the play and you CERTAINLY don't have money for them to go shopping with their friends at a mall?? How do you explain to a child that all they need is the basics- PB&J and milk will keep you full; 3 pr of jeans, four shirts and a pr of shoes a yr will keep you clothed; and all 7 of us live in this 2 BR house. One could argue that paying CS for an OC puts a terrible strain on a family, but having another child would put more strain on a family when you are already stretching your budget in the first place. But again, this is just my opinion.

<small>[ December 07, 2002, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: nocontact4us ]</small>

NC4U

Well, I can't argue with anything you have said. When you are right you are right.

Having only one child before I married Bipolar, I guess I didn't notice a huge expense in raising my son. We ate really well, he was always dressed in nice clothes and went to a great school and had all kinds of friends and his grandparents were active in his life. Christmas and birthdays were always a big deal with a nice present or two and a small party. We got a dog from a pound for him. He had a bike and we kept it simple. We went to a lot of movies and got together with friends and family.

I had a decent job and daycare was fairly reasonable and I had medical through my job. He didn't need braces because he had great teeth and he was healthy...I was lucky. I suppose because it wasn't a big hardship for me to raise my son, and I never received any CS whatsoever, I just assume it isn't for anyone else who has just one child. Of course if you have three, four or more, and multiply all the needs of each child, it is overwhelming.

Sometime there are enormous shifts in life you don't expect...like finding out that your husband has cheated on you and now there is an OC he has to pay for.

The problem I have is that the person you are referring to could have probably afforded another child if they didn't have to pay support or if they didn't have to pay so much.

And my opinion is that only the wife is entitled to have her own husband's children, whether she does or not, and therefore should not be penalized, for whatever reason, for having another child she might not be able to afford...just because OW/OC getting far, far more than necessary and creating a hardship for the fmaily of origin who is far, far more entitled.

Catnip =^^=

Let me clarify this....I'm getting royally steamed that someone is talking about me on another board. Be that as it may be, I don't owe explanations for why I'm having another child.

But again, be that as it may be, here it goes....

My ex-husband, "wild Bill", is a deadbeat dad. He doesn't pay what is fair or what he should ever...willingly... Mr."T" took on my two children from my first marriage WILLINGLY and became their DADDY. He should have thought of me and my girls when he made his stupid mistake, but he made a mistake...does that excuse him, no it does not.

I can afford ALL of my children. I would like to know what's wrong with a system that takes it own sweet time that my ex-husband gets away with what he does and we get the royal screws in the CS order???? We filed first in court. We told the judge that we fully intend to pay our financial obligation. We never were deadbeat payers like my ex-husband is. My ex-husband was ordered to pay for my two girls medical...he was in violation.

We saved money up for plumbing repairs, and it had to be used to pay for court costs that were incurred by ex-ow "Welfare Queen" and our own atty's fees etc. etc...

I did not know there was an OW/OC when my third daughter and son were born. I gave birth to what I thought was the only children that Mr."T" had. That cannot be put on me, it rests solely on Mr."T"'s shoulders to choose to have children with me without my knowing about OC's existance at that time.

We always wanted three children. We are having three children together. We scraped money to hire my own atty. to go after Wild Bill for money for my two girls from my 1st marriage.

As it stands, I'm due to get about $700 a month instead of the paltry $200 a month I get for BOTH girls at this time. Plus he's required to pay for 76% of medical. It takes time to get the wheels going in the judicial system...everyone here knows that.

We were doing fine the first year of our CS obligation until Dinobon had her seizure. We owe over $5,000 in medical bills. Her medicine (because she's bi-polar) cost us $230 a month and until recently, we had to pay it all. Now we pay a co-pay and it is now $100 a month. I fully feel that "Wild Bill" needs to pay his responsibility. He's the deadbeat dad. Mr."T" busts his [censored] to work triple shifts so that I can stay home with the kids...something that we both feel strongly about and sacrificed royally for until they are all school age.

We were making it until the little un-expecteds happen that happen to everyone else...truck breaks down, living off credit cards, now we are in debt again after paying off our debt.

We are taking steps to take control of the snowball effect, but it takes time. My Father always said, "If you ever waited until you can afford a child you'd never have one."

I am in a legitimate married relationship. I talked about putting this baby up for adoption because I was worried about finances. Mr."T" was livid and told me not to be ridiculous. I'm willing to sacrifice my child to a better life, but Mr."T" told me that this was just temporary. This will pass. It will. I will go to work eventually. Actually, being hearing impaired, I found out through a new deaf friend that I can get help with getting a new hearing aid and help in child care for going back to school. I'm looking into it.

I was not a piece of [censored] for Mr."T". I am his wife. Not his whore. Not a piece of meat that satisfied his "itch" during one Mardi Gras. I was not the one that wanted to be "Mrs. T" as ex-ow was, thinking she could get out of her white trash mentality to marry "up".

I will be married for 6 years to Mr."T" this July. We were High School sweethearts all the way up to College and then we parted ways, me to a marriage that should have never happend and he to a fiance that ended before he got married. We were thrilled to have found each other again. We have known each other as friends for almost 17 years.

There is a big difference between being married and having children and being an OW who thinks that MM loves her when that isn't the case.

SO keep your opinions to yourself. Unless you know all the facts as Joshmom pointed out to others, then keep your yap shut.

I didn't ask for this. I wasn't trying to get pregnant, but the baby is here. I refuse to argue with anyone about this. We will be ok one of these days...it's not my fault that things snowball at times. We will not always be like this.

Shame on those of you who make officious judgments without knowing the facts.

Just remember this...I considered adoption for this child and my husband ruled it out. So don't y'all be so smug.

Twiisty

Oh yeah...just for sh*t and giggles here are some more Twiisty Trivia for you......

1. my husband and I are legally considered infertile. Our children ALL are true miracles.

2. I am getting my tubes tied after this one. I truly thought that Bubba was my last child, but I've been blessed. This is my LAST child...I am taking my birth control options in my hand and will do what is best for me and my family.

3. Pops and Fullhouse have a full house and I'm sure Pops can tell you about how sometimes it gets lean in a large family...but no one jumps their [censored] when Pops says that he is going after FH's MM for financial support...I can't stand this double standard...it's ok for them to have a large family and I can't?

We are financially responsible for OC... my ex-husband is a deadbeat dad...we'd be fine if he paid what he owed us. We just have to get over this financial hurdle...we are not people who sit on our [censored] with our thumbs up our butt eating bon-bons and watching t.v. (like some OW's are doing!)

Right on Twisty!!
That message about having a child when one can't afford one really holds true for the OW who got involved with MM and had his child and Kept it.
I am being inflammatory here, but I don't care, this is one place where I can say it.
As a BS, I feel, note I said "I feel", that the only person who should have a child is someone involved in a committed relationship that is recognised by law and religion if they are religious. By having and keeping a child of an affair, an OW is committing robbery. She has robbed the wife of HER RIGHT to be the only mother of HER husband's children. Then the OW proceeds to steal the money due the children of the legal, legitimate relationship, otherwise known as a marriage, of their means of support. These are the children of the marriage that the OW violated by being involved with a MM.
If I upset anyone here who is not a BS, sorry. However, I am tired of OW coming on here and blasting BS for using this board for what it is intended.

As I understand things, this Board is to help heal relationships. IN the beginning when the BS learns she is in that "FUNFILLED CATEGORY" the pain and anger are immeasurable. She needs to have a safe outlet and this is where she is supposed to be able to come. I remember being so angry with my H I wanted to go thru the house breaking anything and everything I could. I held that in and confided in a friend. If I had said to my H the things I was thinking of him and his paramour,,,,well we would probably not be together. I have never been an abusive person, but I truly wanted to take a big stick and beat him after I learned of his affair. When I learned of the OC months later when I was pg with OUR 5th child, it all came back and I came close to kicking him out. How dare she be pg while I was. How dare she present him with a child AFTER ME. But she did dare, and now she raises a child alone, or at least without her child's bio father around.
There is no place else I can release those feelings but here. No one else can understand those feelings but those here. By expressing them here I get them off my chest and don't say things to him that I can't take back. Things we say in anger sometimes shouldn't be said but sometimes WE need to say them just to get those ill-feelings out, so they don't poison us.
The last thing a BS needs is to have some OW judge her for being angry at the attempted theft of her life.
I am not angry at her now, I am over that. However I get angry when I come here and see someone going thru so much and getting "beat up" for it. Don't come back at me about the WS being responsible. I held my H accoutable, I think most of us do, but we make the decision to make our marriages work. Once he has made things right it is time to get on with reguilding the marriage and the marital relationship. My H know how STUPID he was for having an affair. How much more stupid it was to father a child with an OW. You don't know how many times he has told me he wishes he could go back and make different choices that first night with her and not have that first night with her.

Don't blast someone unless you have walked in her shoes.

Twisty, I hope your life improves soon. When that baby comes love him/her in the special way that all babies need to be loved. Let the light he will bring into your lives overcome the financially difficulties that have preceeded him,and you all move on away from this current situation you find yourself in.
Sorry this became long. I kind of got carried away.

Texasgirl

Well said Texas Girl and Twiisty, well said.

Catnip =^^=