<small>[ January 07, 2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: queen147 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by queen147:
<strong>second it is her body </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it is not. It is NOT "her" body. It is the body of the Unborn Child. Her body is nothing more than the incubator that houses this life while it is developing.

And this child is at the mercy of the reckless, careless whims of two selfish people who will terminate its life because its presence is "inconvenient". JMO

As far as consoling husband, praying together is incredible....

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Wueen147,
I hope my reply doesn't offend you, its not my intent. I just get very upset when it comes to abortion.
However there are three things that give me some rationale for all this mess,

How can you rational the murder of an innocent child. That is just mind boggling to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

first she has some severe medical condition that would probably prevent the preg from going to full term and she would probably suffer more from trying to fight the ineveitable,

Well, then if its the ineveitable, then why worry about an abortion? Give it to God

second it is her body and she doesn't have to do what anyone says

I totally agree with Catnip on this statement

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it is not. It is NOT "her" body. It is the body of the Unborn Child. Her body is nothing more than the incubator that houses this life while it is developing.

And this child is at the mercy of the reckless, careless whims of two selfish people who will terminate its life because its presence is "inconvenient". JMO </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and third, this is the consequence for having un-protected sex w/a married man or any man for that matter.

I totally agree with you that a pregnancy could be the consequence for having unprotected sex, however, do you actually think killing this baby should be their punishment because of their bad decision? I just think an abortion would be ANOTHER bad decision. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I'm not saying my husband is the innocent bystander by any means and I just pray that both of them will get something good out of this like a closer relationship w/God

How could they possibly get a closer relationship w/God by getting the abortion????? I know God is a forgiving God, but you don't deliberately commit a sin with the mindset that after you do it it will be forgiven. That makes no sense at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If the abortion is not done yet sweetie then try to TALK THEM OUT OF IT! That is how you can console him. Tell him "Just DON'T DO IT and he won't have anything to feel guilty about." How can he feel guilt for something that hasn't happened yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> JMHO.... I would feel just as responsible as they are if I DIDN'T TRY TO TALK THEM OUT OF IT. I could not live with myself. I am a BS and fortunately I'm not in the same situation as you, but I have thought about about if that had happened,and having 4 children of my own, I just couldn't condone that horrendous act. Just give it to GOD and he will help you sweetie. I pray for you and your situation and your strength. I know you're going thru a hell right now that someone else created for you. You also are suffering consequences because of their bad decision. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Good luck and GOD BLESS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: queen147 ]</small>

queen147
I'm so sorry my reply offended I told you that was not my intent. I just buried my aunt who was unable to have children and went through life feeling that void. And I hurt for her to think that people destroy infants to make their situations easier to handle. She would have given her right arm for one. I guess that's where I was coming from. I don't see anywhere in my post where I condemned your H or the OW. How could I condemn them when I thought the abortion was not yet performed? I'm sorry for your pain. I truly am. I know you're going through enough already and I didn't mean to add to it. Again, I'm so sorry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry but this is one of those situations that you can not truly comprehend until you've been there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree with you and I even stated that in my reply.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would feel just as responsible as they are if I DIDN'T TRY TO TALK THEM OUT OF IT. I could not live with myself. I am a BS and fortunately I'm not in the same situation as you , but I have thought about if that had happened,and having 4 children of my own, I just couldn't condone that horrendous act. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And now rereading my post I can see where you thought I was condemning you..... however, that is not what I was trying to relay. Just like you said, you were just thinking out loud, that's what I was doing there, not judging you, just how I would have felt about it. But I can see where you got the wrong impression. I apologize.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the fact that this woman would like nothing more than to destroy my family and simply didn't care what lives she damaged along the way to get my H "all to herself" as she put it in one letter I read </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see what you're dealing with here and I was wrong. If she would destroy her own child for her own selfish reasons, then why should she care about you or your family. I guess I was just dealing with the fact that my aunt died and my sister and I took care of her. We were her surrogate kids. Sometimes grief distorts your thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the closer relationship I was referring to is when someone finally sees all the chaos their sin and sinful decisions are causing and chose to run to God to deliver them. There are many instances in the Bible and even today when bad decisions have led people to not only change their ways but become strong enough to help someone else not go down the same road. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely right, I totally misunderstood what you were trying to say. Again.... SORRY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You probably don't want anymore advice from me, but if it helps just hold him, cry with him, pray, and support him. Which is probably what I should have said from the start. And maybe this will help also. I bought a book called, "The Choosing to Forgive Workbook" maybe that would help him to forgive himself for everything and have a fresh start. It's a lot of work, but it really saved my sanity and my marriage. Its by Les Carted, Ph.D, & Frank Minirth, M.D. And now I'll ask that you please forgive me for adding to your stress.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: queen147 ]</small>

Queen,

My H's OW had the abortion before I found out about the affair and I could do nothing about it. I can not imagine KNOWING ahead of time and the anxiety that must bring to you!

I can't really comfort my H. He is distraught, ashamed, and disgusted that he, too, talked OW into the abortion. She would be nearing term right now and she is going through a lot, too. I am also feeling the pain knowing that a precious little one died for convenience sake.

I wonder if it would help if my H were willing to talk with your H about how the "relief" he thinks he will feel when the abortion is over will not materialize? I could ask my H if he'd be willing to post about this to help your husband really understand that he is selling his soul for a peace that will never come.

What do you think?

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: queen147 ]</small>

Queen,

So sorry to hear the abortion is already accomplished. Yes, my H is Christian and he is working all of this out, but it has only been a few months since the abortion and less time since the affair ended. He went through a kind of self-healing group thing at church that helped. He is back to church every Sunday, and he hadn't gone in months and months. So that is an indication that he is back in touch with God.

You say your H hasn't told the OW about the break-up yet? What he is doing to her now is the ultimate cruelty and his guilt springs from the fact that he knows it is so cruel. My H wsa about to break off the relationship when he found out OW was pregnant, and he felt he couldn't just abandon her. So he stayed in the relationship, helped her decide to get an abortion, but wouldn't go with her to have the dirty deed done. He kept the relationship going for almost three months after that, feeling that he "owed" her something and that he didn't want to hurt her. He couldn't see the relationship surviving or turning into anything permanent, and yet he couldn't just break it off. How sick is that, eh? In a way, I would have preferred he did what your H did, but I can't imagine the intense torure the OW must be feeling about everything right now.

Is your H avoiding her because he is afraid to make the break? Is he afraid he'll fall back into the affair? Can you suggest that you both go to her as a team, you by his side, to ensure he doesn't become ensnared in his own feelings? Just my thoughts, by I think there is so much left unresolved here that there may need to be a meeting between the two of them to say it all out in the open. I don't advise this, of course, if you think he will fall back into the affair.

A month after I found out about the abortion (and two months after my H ended the affair) I was in contact with OW and actually arranged a meeting between she and my H so she could ask any questions that she wanted and he would answer them honestly so they could both move on. If it hadn't have been for the abortion I would have never suggested this. But my husband was tortured over it and I knew OW was upset about having the abortion, felt pushed into it by my H (they actually convinced themselves that by sacrificing one littl ebaby they would save so much pain for me, her H, and the eight kids we have between us!).

I would never have arranged the meeting, either, if I was unsure of where my husband stood and if he hadn't sorted out his feelings for OW. If you find yourself in a similar place, a meeting of the two of them might be good. I didn't feel a need to be there, but you might. Just be prepared for anything and everything.

Hope this helps. Keep posting.

Snowbelle

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: queen147 ]</small>

Queen,

My H and OW (who is also married) broke it off from day 1. There has been a little contact between them, always initiated by her, but that I have been told about immediately by my H. She and I have always communicated by email. Though we have met once briefly in the place where she and my H work, and I see her there occassionally, we have not had a face-to-face sit down discussion.

Your OW seems desperate to talk to your husband, which is an indication she is still in love with him (I know, that hurts). He seems reluctant to talk to her. Could he still have feelings for her? I certainly hope not, but that might be something to bring up in counseling on Thursday.

He could also need medication to help whip the depression he is in and to help him gain perspective. My husband, too, was very down on himself at first (when I found out about the affair and again, a month later, when he told me about the abortion). But the difference was he had help. He went to our pastor. He got involved in the church group. He found forgiveness from God, from me, and someday he'll forgive himself.

When I set up the meeting with OW and my H, he went alone. They met in a public park and she brought her two youngest children with her! She asked him a few questions, but didn't really use the time to get real closure, but she had her chance. My husband was able to tell her, face to face, that the relationship was wrong from the start and he apologized for hurting her and pushing her into the abortion and not being man enough to lend her the support she needed to carry through the pregnancy and all that would mean.

Our H's have that in common: they both feel they weren't man enough to do the right thing. Your husband wants to punish himself, it seems. Please take this up first thing with the counselor. And just keep loving your H as much as you can. Hopefully, soon, he'll be able to move past this and put his focus where it really belongs: helping you to heal.

God bless.